EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[greyman42]

Will they?
When was this stated? I genuinely don't know, so enlightenment would be good.
Do the Irish people agree with it and would they vote for it in a referendum?

It has not been stated. It is merely my opinion. Regarding whether the Irish would vote for it, I think so should push come to shove. Referendums can throw up unexpected results.

 

[Esker-pades]

Northern Ireland wouldn't necessarily have to become independent in order to maintain the soft border between it and the Republic. What it would need to do is have the same customs agreements as the EU (meaning it would be different to the rest of the UK). This means a hard border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. That, of course, is something the DUP would refuse to vote for.
The other option is for the whole of the UK to have the same customs arrangements as the EU. That would make Brexit broadly pointless. We would have no additional capabilities to make trade agreements with any other states, and we would loose our voice in creating said customs arrangements.

 

[EM2]

https://mobile.twitter.com/thetimes/status/1055712418784075778

Britain is preparing for trade negotiations with almost two dozen nations after they objected to the terms it proposed for its World Trade Organisation membership after Brexit
Liam Fox confirmed yesterday that countries have “expressed reservations” over the draft text put forward by the UK before its departure from the European Union.

The trade secretary said that Britain “intends to enter negotiations with relevant partners” over its future rights and obligations at the WTO.

About 20 members are understood to have opposed the country’s initial proposal, dashing hopes of an unchallenged arrival at the Geneva-based body that governs global trade.

The WTO has 164 members and was set up in 1995 as a regulator and somewhere for countries to negotiate deals and settle disputes.

The rest of the article is paywalled.

 

[northwichcat]

And lets not forget Dysons £200 million investment in Britain https://www.theguardian.com/technol...n-wiltshire-facility-boost-electric-car-tests

And let's not forget Airbus has invested £2bn at Broughton alone: https://www.airbus.com/company/worldwide-presence/uk.html Yet because production of the A380s is split between Britain, France and other European countries Brexit puts that under threat. So Dyson's investment so far is peanuts in comparison and James Dyson previously went to great lengths about saying how Brexit would be good for British jobs he's insulting the intelligence of people who voted for Brexit by trying to justify building the cars in Singapore.

Citation needed for these car makers to move to the EU and close their plants here please

You mustn't need a citation as I was talking about some work transferring to the continent, not necessarily potential closures of plants. Therefore, you must have already heard the media reports about Vauxhall Ellesmere Port potentially closing due to Brexit, or maybe you've heard about other threatened closures I'm not aware of.

 

[northwichcat]

Northern Ireland wouldn't necessarily have to become independent in order to maintain the soft border between it and the Republic. What it would need to do is have the same customs agreements as the EU (meaning it would be different to the rest of the UK). This means a hard border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. That, of course, is something the DUP would refuse to vote for.
The other option is for the whole of the UK to have the same customs arrangements as the EU. That would make Brexit broadly pointless. We would have no additional capabilities to make trade agreements with any other states, and we would loose our voice in creating said customs arrangements.

While Brexiteers try to make out the main reason for leaving is due to 'interfering unelected bureaucrats in Brussels' I think stopping Eastern Europeans coming here was a lot of Brexiteer's primary reason for voting for leave.

 

[superkev]

Whether you an in or outer I can't help thinking the whole thing is a total shambles. Teresa May is criticized by all and sundry but noone else seems to have a detailed plan; Labour seem strangly quiet - do they actually have a plan?
Personally why we re wanting to leave the biggest free trading zone on the planet when everyone elses wants to set up business there is totally beyond me.
What the Brexiteers will say to people like the car assembly workers on the dole queue I know not. Perhaps something like "thanks for sacrificing your livelihood so we can reduce immigration and be divorced from all those jobsworths in Brussels. Im sure you will find a low paid job when all those eastern europeans go home".
K

 

[northwichcat]

Whether you an in or outer I can't help thinking the whole thing is a total shambles. Teresa May is criticized by all and sundry but noone else seems to have a detailed plan; Labour seem strangly quiet - do they actually have a plan?
Personally why we re wanting to leave the biggest free trading zone on the planet when everyone elses wants to set up business there is totally beyond me.
What the Brexiteers will say to people like the car assembly workers on the dole queue I know not. Perhaps something like "thanks for sacrificing your livelihood so we can reduce immigration and be divorced from all those jobsworths in Brussels. Im sure you will find a low paid job when all those eastern europeans go home".
K

It's similar for newly qualified people - for newly qualified engineers there's plenty of jobs in Germany currently open to British engineers but once we leave the EU it'll send British engineers to the back of the queue as it'll be much simpler for the engineering giants in Germany to employ people from EU countries.

 

[Clip]

You mustn't need a citation as I was talking about some work transferring to the continent, not necessarily potential closures of plants. Therefore, you must have already heard the media reports about Vauxhall Ellesmere Port potentially closing due to Brexit, or maybe you've heard about other threatened closures I'm not aware of.

No you specifically said they would be moved to the continent

while the multinational car makers based in the UK will move jobs to the continent

Ahh yes - potentially - its an amazing word just like 'could' its none committal yet you are using it to state facts. Brilliant. Just brilliant. They potentially could expand ellesmere port too and they could build every aeroplane the world will ever need here too.

 

[Groningen]

According to Dutch and Belgium media some British people are already stashing up food.

Source: https://www.demorgen.be/buitenland/...-16&sk=&cvid=D4E7DA48C56E427D982CB2CE66A35F77 (Paywall to see full article)

 

[mmh]

According to Dutch and Belgium media some British people are already stashing up food.

Source: https://www.demorgen.be/buitenland/...-16&sk=&cvid=D4E7DA48C56E427D982CB2CE66A35F77 (Paywall to see full article)

Well yes, there are many people willing to make fools of themselves, but what the article starts off with is hardly unusual (I'm not about to pay to access a Belgian website to read the rest of a New York Times article!)

The cupboards are stuffed with pasta, rice and couscous - enough to feed her family for five days. There are medicines, and in the garden there is a water tank of a cubic meter.

I'd be willing to bet most British households have enough food to last five days, have medicine. Some will have water tanks depending on where they are and the age of the house.

What a load of scare-mongering nonsense.

 

[mmh]

It's similar for newly qualified people - for newly qualified engineers there's plenty of jobs in Germany currently open to British engineers but once we leave the EU it'll send British engineers to the back of the queue as it'll be much simpler for the engineering giants in Germany to employ people from EU countries.

Largely irrelevant because the German engineering jobs will be expecting people to speak German.

 

[AlterEgo]

Well yes, there are many people willing to make fools of themselves, but what the article starts off with is hardly unusual (I'm not about to pay to access a Belgian website to read the rest of a New York Times article!)



I'd be willing to bet most British households have enough food to last five days, have medicine. Some will have water tanks depending on where they are and the age of the house.

What a load of scare-mongering nonsense.

Hahahahaha making news out of someone having five days’ worth of food in their house!

 

[radamfi]

Largely irrelevant because the German engineering jobs will be expecting people to speak German.

English is often used in highly skilled roles across Europe so that people from different nationalities can work together.

 

[northwichcat]

English is often used in highly skilled roles across Europe so that people from different nationalities can work together.

Yes there's lots of jobs in Europe where you'd expect speaking the local language to a high standard to be mandatory but it isn't so the only issue is whether not speaking the local language will cause issues outside of work.

Also while German lessons weren't mandatory in my school they were available and you have to do at least one foreign language to GCSE level so I'm sure there's a considerable number of British people who at least speak some German even if @mmh wants to stereotype British people as unable to speak any foreign languages.

 

[northwichcat]

I'd be willing to bet most British households have enough food to last five days, have medicine. Some will have water tanks depending on where they are and the age of the house.

What a load of scare-mongering nonsense.

Hahahahaha making news out of someone having five days’ worth of food in their house!

Yet are most households saving up 5 days worth of non-fresh food or do they even know how long their non-fresh food can last? I know there's pasta, rice and tinned food in my kitchen but have no idea exactly what quantities and they aren't being put on one side for an emergency, they are being used as needed.

There's a growing trend of people in America of stockpiling food as they think something bad could happen such as North Korea detonating an electromagnetic bomb in the U.S. so the New York Times probably wants to report about similar occurrences outside the U.S.

 

[mmh]

Yes there's lots of jobs in Europe where you'd expect speaking the local language to a high standard to be mandatory but it isn't so the only issue is whether not speaking the local language will cause issues outside of work.

Also while German lessons weren't mandatory in my school they were available and you have to do at least one foreign language to GCSE level so I'm sure there's a considerable number of British people who at least speak some German even if @mmh wants to stereotype British people as unable to speak any foreign languages.

Ah, remainer schizophrenia. We're insular xenophobic monoglots when that stereotype is convenient, but educated citizens of the world when that's more convenient.

It's not a stereotype at all, we are infamously poor at foreign languages.

 

[mmh]

Yet are most households saving up 5 days worth of non-fresh food or do they even know how long their non-fresh food can last? I know there's pasta, rice and tinned food in my kitchen but have no idea exactly what quantities and they aren't being put on one side for an emergency, they are being used as needed.

And in an emergency they'll be used as needed, surely?

To answer how long your non-fresh food can last - far after we'll all be dead as a result of Brexit. Ignore any use-by dates on all of it, they're nonsense.

There's a growing trend of people in America of stockpiling food as they think something bad could happen such as North Korea detonating an electromagnetic bomb in the U.S. so the New York Times probably wants to report about similar occurrences outside the U.S.

Well, every country has its oddballs.

 

[Basher]

What's this scaremongering about? Think positive, we can have south African fruit. Brazilian beef, New Zealand lamb, Korean cars, all cheaper, list can go on and on. The Spanish salad growers, the dutch flower growers, Belgian chocolate makers, German/French car makers will all go bankrupt. All because we can get the same or similar products/produce from other sources. The EU has a lot more to lose than the UK, Mrs May should say 'THAT'S ENOUGH WHEN YOU WANT A TRADE DEAL WITH US MY DOOR IS OPEN WHEN YOU MAKE AN APPOINTMENT' If the country/politicians had got behind our government it would have been sorted by now.

 

[northwichcat]

Ah, remainer schizophrenia. We're insular xenophobic monoglots when that stereotype is convenient, but educated citizens of the world when that's more convenient.

It's not a stereotype at all, we are infamously poor at foreign languages.

62% of Brits can't speak a foreign language
51% of EU citizens speak English
http://esol.britishcouncil.org/content/learners/skills/reading/british-worst-learning-languages

To put that in to prospective 25 million British people speak a foreign language and 250 million EU citizens speak English, so why exactly do you think British people are unable to get jobs in Germany or other non-English speak countries? 107,000 Brits live in Germany with 1m British people working in EU* countries (and that doesn't include those who are retired and live in the EU*): https://britishingermany.org/2018/01/30/facts-and-figures/

* Obviously not including the UK as we're still in the EU as things stand.

 

[northwichcat]

Ignore any use-by dates on all of it, they're nonsense.

You mean Best Before dates, ignoring Use By dates on some products might give you diarrhea, vomiting or worse.

 

[Ianno87]

What's this scaremongering about? Think positive, we can have south African fruit. Brazilian beef, New Zealand lamb, Korean cars, all cheaper, list can go on and on. The Spanish salad growers, the dutch flower growers, Belgian chocolate makers, German/French car makers will all go bankrupt. All because we can get the same or similar products/produce from other sources.

..which all reach us via our current *EU* trade agreement!

 

[Howardh]

Just a note on stockpiling - I have a fortnight's worth...no, that's not because of that B thing, it's just in case I'm suddenly taken ill and hospitalised so the carers have plenty of supply to keep mum going. I do have more than a fortnight's worth of wine though....for when I get back from hosiptal (probably....just to be on the safe side and all that...).

 

[Howardh]

You mean Best Before dates, ignoring Use By dates on some products might give you diarrhea, vomiting or worse.

Quite. If a "best before" item is kept in a very cold fridge the food is often fit well beyond the date. "Use by" is always on the side of caution, I doubt a couple of days - if stored correctly - would hurt, after all food doesn't suddenly go off at midnight. It's all common sense; apparently the stuff Scott left in the Antarctic could still be eaten, which may be preferable to a mcDonald's bough five minutes ago (tat's another story about preservatives!).

Video showing McD's food doesn't rot - stuffed with chemicals?
https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/heres-why-mcdonalds-burgers-don-t-rot/

J. Kenji López-Alt, a restaurant-trained chef and managing director of the blog Serious Eats, performed an experiment that explored why fast food burgers seem immortal. He came up with five different hypotheses based on what he knows inhibits mold growth: presence of some special preservative in the meat or bun, high salt content in the burger, low moisture content, no mold spores ever coming into contact with the burger, or no air where the burger was prepared.

The burger was obviously cooked where there is air and mold spores are fairly omnipresent no matter where you go, but they would have been killed when the burger was cooked. Thus, the latter two hypotheses were quickly thrown out. The ingredient list for a McDonald’s bun isn’t much different from those bought at the store and the patties claim to be 100% beef, so there were no obvious preservatives that would inhibit mold. Still, he decided to test the burgers from McDonald’s against some that he made in his kitchen.

Nine different burger combinations were made by mixing and matching the buns and patties from McDonald’s and from his kitchen. Some of his patties had added salt, while others did not, and he also varied the types of packaging. His hands never made direct contact with any of the burgers, which were all left in the open air.

More than three weeks later, the McDonald’s food hadn’t rotted, but neither had the homemade patties. The homemade patty with no added salt looked no different than the those with extra salt, indicating it wasn’t the causal factor.

The key appeared to be moisture levels. The burgers had each lost a quarter of their weight within the first week, indicating that they had dried out. Without moisture, the mold can’t grow. Since McDonald’s uses thin patties with a lot of surface area, they quickly dry out before they can start to rot. This is the entire principle behind beef jerky. A McDonald’s burger sealed in a plastic bag will be completely consumed with mold within a week.

As far as the Buzzfeed video goes, it’s possible that different burger joints use different patty thicknesses, or contain varied ingredients that add moisture, such as different types of cheese or condiments. Also, there’s no way to know if the burgers were sealed within the jars at the same time after purchase, or if some had been given more time to dry out than others. There wasn’t enough due diligence in this video to hail Burger King as haute cuisine and condemn McDonald’s as mysterious Frankenfood quite yet.

 

[Puffing Devil]

What's this scaremongering about? Think positive, we can have south African fruit. Brazilian beef, New Zealand lamb, Korean cars, all cheaper, list can go on and on. The Spanish salad growers, the dutch flower growers, Belgian chocolate makers, German/French car makers will all go bankrupt. All because we can get the same or similar products/produce from other sources. The EU has a lot more to lose than the UK, Mrs May should say 'THAT'S ENOUGH WHEN YOU WANT A TRADE DEAL WITH US MY DOOR IS OPEN WHEN YOU MAKE AN APPOINTMENT' If the country/politicians had got behind our government it would have been sorted by now.

As you're clearly an expert on World Trade, perhaps you could give us your thought through take on this commentary of our trading status post Brexit?

https://www.docdroid.net/m3YvOS5/brexit-truth-revised.pdf

You may even give your considered opinion on the recent Russian led veto of our proposals to the WTO.

 

[Puffing Devil]

You mean Best Before dates, ignoring Use By dates on some products might give you diarrhea, vomiting or worse.

Quite. If a "best before" item is kept in a very cold fridge the food is often fit well beyond the date. "Use by" is always on the side of caution, I doubt a couple of days - if stored correctly - would hurt, after all food doesn't suddenly go off at midnight. It's all common sense; apparently the stuff Scott left in the Antarctic could still be eaten, which may be preferable to a mcDonald's bough five minutes ago (tat's another story about preservatives!).

Video showing McD's food doesn't rot - stuffed with chemicals?

Shhhhh.... let them find out for themsleves!

 

[northwichcat]

What's this scaremongering about? Think positive, we can have south African fruit. Brazilian beef, New Zealand lamb, Korean cars, all cheaper, list can go on and on. The Spanish salad growers, the dutch flower growers, Belgian chocolate makers, German/French car makers will all go bankrupt. All because we can get the same or similar products/produce from other sources. The EU has a lot more to lose than the UK, Mrs May should say 'THAT'S ENOUGH WHEN YOU WANT A TRADE DEAL WITH US MY DOOR IS OPEN WHEN YOU MAKE AN APPOINTMENT' If the country/politicians had got behind our government it would have been sorted by now.

Have you ever looked at where food comes from? You'll find plenty of New Zealand lamb, Moroccan oranges, Chilean apples and Dominican bananas in supermarkets now. However, it's not practical to ship perishable goods like fresh strawberries or tomatoes half way around the world and while we grow strawberries and tomatoes in the UK our season is much shorter than the Spanish season so by importing them from Spain means we can have them more months of the year.

 

[northwichcat]

You may even give your considered opinion on the recent Russian led veto of our proposals to the WTO.

Relating to Russia it was on a BBC documentary that due to their trade sanctions with Europe new businesses have set up in Russia making imitation goods like European cheeses they can no longer import. That has worked well for a small number of entrepreneurs but the cost of the imitation goods is significantly higher than the cost of the originals imported from Europe so the majority of Russians lose out through having to pay higher prices.

 

[Basher]

62% of Brits can't speak a foreign language
51% of EU citizens speak English
http://esol.britishcouncil.org/content/learners/skills/reading/british-worst-learning-languages

To put that in to prospective 25 million British people speak a foreign language and 250 million EU citizens speak English, so why exactly do you think British people are unable to get jobs in Germany or other non-English speak countries? 107,000 Brits live in Germany with 1m British people working in EU* countries (and that doesn't include those who are retired and live in the EU*): https://britishingermany.org/2018/01/30/facts-and-figures/

* Obviously not including the UK as we're still in the EU as things stand.

Not everyone wants to work or live in Europe. There is plenty of opportunities for good skilled, technical people.
PS. As for newly qualified graduate people, they have to start to become skilled when they start there first job.

 

[mmh]

Not everyone wants to work or live in Europe. There is plenty of opportunities for good skilled, technical people.
PS. As for newly qualified graduate people, they have to start to become skilled when they start there first job.

Even the remoaners don't want to work or live in Europe!

 

[northwichcat]

Not everyone wants to work or live in Europe. There is plenty of opportunities for good skilled, technical people.
PS. As for newly qualified graduate people, they have to start to become skilled when they start there first job.

I agree that not everyone wants to work in Europe and there should be skilled jobs in the UK but when many EU backing multinational companies are considering moving production out of the UK and Brexit backing ones are creating jobs in Asia rather than the UK, it creates a bleak outlook for those who will soon be graduates.