Route knowledge at junctions: I tip my hat to the train drivers

[PudseyBearHST]

Can someone explain the flashing signal bit a bit more? Is it something like to slow the train over the points, but after the points the train can accelerate?

Flashing yellows mean route is setting for a diverging route. It lets the driver know that the train will be going across the junction so that
a) driver can reduce speed accordingly
b) the driver knows where the train is going and can ensure train is going the correct route

E.g. if you’re going to Liverpool, you need flashing yellows at Acton Bridge to go across at Weaver Junction.

Usual sequence is flashing double yellows, flashing single yellow, steady yellow and then red. Usually when you get near the steady single yellow, the signal should step up to a green. Obviously you can’t assume this and if you are going pass a signal yellow, expect the next signal to be at danger as normal.

 

[Pshambro]

When services get delayed and drivers are due a break people tend to moan about the inconvenience of having the service delayed more: if they saw that video they would be banging on the cab door asking the driver to kindly vacate the cab and go get a cup of tea

 

[The Nomad]

Thanks for the explanations. It's a bit harder than red means stop and green means go...

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Thanks for the explanations. It's a bit harder than red means stop and green means go...

We haven’t even started talking about semaphore signals yet...

 

[johntea]

One thing I've been wondering recently is Castleford - Leeds route, as a passenger it seems a fairly simple route but it can be quite variable in journey length, on a good day it can be done in a little over 15 minutes but other times it can take around 30 minutes platform to platform.

The main 'hazards' along the route seem to be a signal somewhere before Woodlesford that can halt the train for several minutes and also getting held just outside Leeds station near the building merchants, although the driver does seem to be able to get their foot down a bit after leaving Woodlesford station at least!

 

[hexagon789]

We haven’t even started talking about semaphore signals yet...

Or foreign speed signalling for that matter!

 

[Master29]

I stumbled upon this link as well. I thought it was really informative even though I don`t profess that I understood everything and hence the reason I`ll watch it again. As you say, hats of to those guys.

 

[infobleep]

We haven’t even started talking about semaphore signals yet...

Years ago there was the staff rule book which covers signals but in addition to that there was the General Appendix. I don't know what it's like now though.

I have one for for Great Western Railway. This is from the 1930s with aemdnemnts stuck in up to just before it switched to being nationalised.

There is a whole section on signals with diagrams. I wonder how staff could possibly remember it all, bearing in mind this is in additional to the staff rule book. Although it was written on the basis of that. That's my understanding.

 

[6Gman]

Or foreign speed signalling for that matter!

Every time I use HS1 I peer at those things at the end of the platform in total bafflement. Haven't a clue how they work!

 

[tiptoptaff]

Every time I use HS1 I peer at those things at the end of the platform in total bafflement. Haven't a clue how they work!

HS1 uses TVM signalling which reads out in the cab a "Target Speed" at the end of the current block. So to indicate a "Danger" aspect the target speeds will be reduced a few blocks in advance, to bring the target to show 0 at the beginning of the Block where they must stop.

 

[ComUtoR]

I wonder how staff could possibly remember it all,

Rule Book
4x Traction
Routes + All Diversionaries
Numerous local instructions
Ops notices and Company standards
ESR and TSRs
Depot working instructions
Deviations and Derogations
Professional Driving Policy
DOO Policy
DRI
Hidden 18
Employee terms
Driver specific terms
Marginal Time Allowances
Walking routes
Partridge
Pear Tree

Its not just remembering it all. Its remembering it all 10+ yrs later

 

[Dieseldriver]

Rule Book
4x Traction
Routes + All Diversionaries
Numerous local instructions
Ops notices and Company standards
ESR and TSRs
Depot working instructions
Deviations and Derogations
Professional Driving Policy
DOO Policy
DRI
Hidden 18
Employee terms
Driver specific terms
Marginal Time Allowances
Walking routes
Partridge
Pear Tree

Its not just remembering it all. Its remembering it all 10+ yrs later

Piece of **** though Train Driving...

 

[142Pilot]

4 X Traction?

We sign 8 with another 3 to come, and lose 1 which is the simplest traction of all.

Leeds men can sign 12 traction types.....

 

[vlad]

Pear Tree

Its not just remembering it all. Its remembering it all 10+ yrs later

It's just south of Derby but now usually written as "Peartree". Not many trains stop there but I'm sure there are things about it rail staff need to know.

 

[hexagon789]

Every time I use HS1 I peer at those things at the end of the platform in total bafflement. Haven't a clue how they work!

I understand how the in-cab TVM-430 works, that's actually fairly straightforward, I don't know what the things on the end of the platform you refer to are though!

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I understand how the in-cab TVM-430 works, that's actually fairly straightforward, I don't know what the things on the end of the platform you refer to are though!

I guess he means the block markers. (?)

 

[hexagon789]

I guess he means the block markers. (?)

Possibly.

 

[Crossover]

What would really impress me though is if someone could explain why the leading train at Marsden was stopped on the up line and not stopped in the loop? Maybe to maintain seperation between trains with the 15 limit on the pointwork.

The one on the main line will have made a passenger call at Marsden. The whole situation at Marsden currently is a complete buggers muddle with trains still not using the step-free access of the loop platform and instead using the loop for overtaking (rather than being overtaken)

Interesting that the signal at 2:21 is not on the end of the platform but before it. Presumably that will lock the junction for an extended period.

It will be there because of signal spacing. Many examples like it - a particular one I can think of is at Ribblehead. If the signal was on the end of the platform then it would mean the next signal may be too close and need moving (ignoring the junction ‘issue’)

Is it bad that I knew where that was in the thumbnail of the video just from the weird arch things on the footbridge, before I'd scrolled any further?

I too recognised it as Ravensthorpe. It’s part of the reason why I watched the video (saw it on Facebook initially) as it looked local!

 

[infobleep]

4 X Traction?

We sign 8 with another 3 to come, and lose 1 which is the simplest traction of all.

Leeds men can sign 12 traction types.....

Only 12? Why stop there! Hehe.

I personally couldn't do it as I have face blindness which means I can't recall images vividly. I'm also dyslexic, which itself might not preclude someone but combined I wouldn't fancy it.

 

[HaggisBotherer]

To be blunt about it unless there's something active happening in the coaches behind I barely even think of what's behind me!

I hope you'd be too busy looking where you're going and concentrating on the steering?

 

[JonathanP]

Or foreign speed signalling for that matter!

Every time I use HS1 I peer at those things at the end of the platform in total bafflement. Haven't a clue how they work!

Actually, speed signalling as used in most of the rest of Europe makes things a lot simpler as it removes the need for so much detailed route knowledge at junctions.

In Germany, using a combination of speed signalling at junctions, a booklet in the cab listing the speed limits and stopping points, and much better signage such as 'countdown' boards for signals and stops and 'mileposts' every 200m, drivers are even allowed to drive without any route knowledge at all, at reduced speed. The approach used in the UK of route signalling, minimal signage and a ban on any in-cab memory aids seems almost masochistic to me.

 

[hexagon789]

Actually, speed signalling as used in most of the rest of Europe makes things a lot simpler as it removes the need for so much detailed route knowledge at junctions.

In Germany, using a combination of speed signalling at junctions, a booklet in the cab listing the speed limits and stopping points, and much better signage such as 'countdown' boards for signals and stops and 'mileposts' every 200m, drivers are even allowed to drive without any route knowledge at all, at reduced speed. The approach used in the UK of route signalling, minimal signage and a ban on any in-cab memory aids seems almost masochistic to me.

I find Belgian route signalling is quite straightforward, German less so.

Personally I prefer the French mixed route and speed signalling.

 

[The Nomad]

At Slaithwaite station, on the Trans-Pennine line, the eastbound signal only shows yellow and green, and changes to yellow as soon as a train passes. I don't know if this is the case elsewhere - it's just my commuting starting point so observe it often.

Does this mean that if a train follows another train into the signal block on a yellow aspect, it should expect to (not literally) bump into a train in the block?

 

[142Pilot]

It's a distant signal. It can only ever show green/yellow. It changes from green tk yellow when the train previously activates the track circuit ahead. It can only change back to green when the block ahead is clear.

The one previous before the viaduct will be held at red. The yellow indicates that the section ahead is occupied and to expect a red signal at the next stop signal

 

[PudseyBearHST]

At Slaithwaite station, on the Trans-Pennine line, the eastbound signal only shows yellow and green, and changes to yellow as soon as a train passes. I don't know if this is the case elsewhere - it's just my commuting starting point so observe it often.

Does this mean that if a train follows another train into the signal block on a yellow aspect, it should expect to (not literally) bump into a train in the block?

Oops posted before finished writing. Ignore.

 

[ComUtoR]

At Slaithwaite station, on the Trans-Pennine line, the eastbound signal only shows yellow and green, and changes to yellow as soon as a train passes. I don't know if this is the case elsewhere - it's just my commuting starting point so observe it often.

Does this mean that if a train follows another train into the signal block on a yellow aspect, it should expect to (not literally) bump into a train in the block?

This is two aspect signalling. (Distance - Stop - Distance - Stop) If you see the signal as Yellow, then you must treat and expect the next signal to be showing as Red. The train ahead is past the next signal and is being protected by a Red so you wont 'bump' into it. If the signal is green then you can expect the next signal to be off.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

At Slaithwaite station, on the Trans-Pennine line, the eastbound signal only shows yellow and green, and changes to yellow as soon as a train passes. I don't know if this is the case elsewhere - it's just my commuting starting point so observe it often.

Does this mean that if a train follows another train into the signal block on a yellow aspect, it should expect to (not literally) bump into a train in the block?

No, it’s a distant signal. The previous stop signal would not clear until the train has gone past the next stop signal.
Stop signals can only show red and green whilst distant signals can only show green and yellow.
This is how semaphores work as well.

 

[Gooner18]

Impressive stuff!

 

[Johncleesefan]

Then there are other junctions where the linespeed over is so much lower than the “straight” speed that you must be brought to a red first in order to take the junction. These are things that could catch you out if your not careful and happily running on greens forgetting the junction

 

[Gooner18]

So , with regards to the speed limit signs that have two different speeds on them ( one above the other) is the top speed the one you stuck to if you’re leaving The line at the upcoming junction ?