Why is Farringdon not classified as a London Terminus but other through stations are?

[Harshil]

Why is Farringdon not classified as a London Terminus but other through stations are such as City Thameslink or Old Street?

 

[swt_passenger]

Why is Farringdon not classified as a London Terminus but other through stations are such as City Thameslink or Old Street?

City Thameslink effectively replaced an existing terminus, Holborn Viaduct, so I expect people whose normal “end of the line” was Holborn Viaduct were looked after by keeping their existing ticket validity. That’s the easiest bit to answer. Farringdon has always been sort of different, originally an LU station with a fairly limited mainline service to Moorgate.

 

[Harshil]

City Thameslink effectively replaced an existing terminus, Holborn Viaduct, so I expect people whose normal “end of the line” was Holborn Viaduct were looked after by keeping their existing ticket validity. That’s the easiest bit to answer. Farringdon has always been sort of different, originally an LU station with a fairly limited mainline service to Moorgate.

Surely a lot of people end their national rail journey at Farringdon! Walking distance to the city and also easy transit to the subsurface lines. Also now Crossrail comes in. I purchased a return ticket from Farringdon to Brighton last year and realised I couldn't use this when returning to Victoria a few days later. I was with my friends who live in South London on the way back so decided to alter my route.
Luckily the barriers were open and I just walked out. But surely making this a London terminals ticket would be easier and give more flexibility to lots of passengers.

Can't think of anyone who would be against making this a terminals station?

 

[Kite159]

Can't think of anyone who would be against making this a terminals station?

TfL most likely won't like it

 

[swt_passenger]

Surely a lot of people end their national rail journey at Farringdon! Walking distance to the city and also easy transit to the subsurface lines. Also now Crossrail comes in. I purchased a return ticket from Farringdon to Brighton last year and realised I couldn't use this when returning to Victoria a few days later. I was with my friends who live in South London on the way back so decided to alter my route.
Luckily the barriers were open and I just walked out. But surely making this a London terminals ticket would be easier and give more flexibility to lots of passengers.

Can't think of anyone who would be against making this a terminals station?

DfT and London Underground are probably who you are up against. But at least Farringdon is now part of London Thameslink from the south, and from the GN, since May, which is a bit of an improvement.

 

[Table 52]

You have to have a cut off point to stop people effectively crossing London for free on Thameslink services using a London Terminals ticket. Farringdon is the most sensible place as it's the one served exclusively by Thameslink.

City Thameslink used to have some peak Southeastern trains terminating there (not sure if it still does). Likewise Blackfriars, London Bridge etc all have terminating services from the south, therefore they all have to be valid on a London Terminals ticket.

 

[jamesthegill]

City Thameslink used to have some peak Southeastern trains terminating there (not sure if it still does).

City TL is exclusively Thameslink now, which muddies the waters a tad.

 

[Hadders]

It would be good if Farringdon was made a London Terminal but who is going to make up for the revenue loss?

Then what happens when Crossrail opens. Would London Terminals tickets from the East be valid (only one additional stop). Then what about those from the West?

 

[AM9]

It would be good if Farringdon was made a London Terminal but who is going to make up for the revenue loss?

Then what happens when Crossrail opens. Would London Terminals tickets from the East be valid (only one additional stop). Then what about those from the West?

It would make more sense if 'London Terminals' was limited to the established terminals and on lines that pass through Central London (i.e. zones 1,) their limit would be at the corresponding surface terminal (when approached from that side of London only).
Thus for current and planned through lines they would be:

TL would have Kings Cross/St Pancras and Blackfriars
Crossrail (1) - Liverpool St and Paddington
Crossrail (2) - Waterloo and Euston/St Pancras​

As the lines may carry a sizeable volume of through traffic that has no interaction with zone 1 LU services, the 'London Thameslink' ticket could be maintained much as today. and equivalent London 'Elizabeth line ' and 'London Crossrail 2' (or whatever it is named) destinations defined for tickets on those lines.

 

[Failed Unit]

The problem with this station which opens up a different can of worms if the great northern stations - London terminals ticket is still via Farringdon.

This made sense back when Finsbury Park - Moorgate was closed during the evening and weekend.

Now it could be argued that this validity should be removed just like they did with the MML stations - Moorgate ticket which must buy zone 1.

You have an valid ticket where you can pass through and even change trains at a station but you can’t leave it.

The rights and wrongs of removing the route validity is a different thread as it unenforceable - but I do question who is really losing out stoping someone with a valid ticket (for a through route)leaving the station (an intermediate stop) They have taken up space on the train anyway.

 

[PeterC]

It would make more sense if 'London Terminals' was limited to the established terminals and on lines that pass through Central London (i.e. zones 1,) their limit would be at the corresponding surface terminal (when approached from that side of London only).
Thus for current and planned through lines they would be:

TL would have Kings Cross/St Pancras and Blackfriars
Crossrail (1) - Liverpool St and Paddington
Crossrail (2) - Waterloo and Euston/St Pancras​

As the lines may carry a sizeable volume of through traffic that has no interaction with zone 1 LU services, the 'London Thameslink' ticket could be maintained much as today. and equivalent London 'Elizabeth line ' and 'London Crossrail 2' (or whatever it is named) destinations defined for tickets on those lines.

Far too logical, if you had a system that people could understand it would take all the fun out of this group.

 

[Chrisgr31]

The really odd bit is why a London Terminals ticket going north is only valid to City Thameslink, whilst one coming south is valid to London Bridge.

 

[swt_passenger]

The really odd bit is why a London Terminals ticket going north is only valid to City Thameslink, whilst one coming south is valid to London Bridge.

The valid southbound ticket to London Bridge is to London Thameslink, not London Terminals.

 

[Chrisgr31]

The valid southbound ticket to London Bridge is to London Thameslink, not London Terminals.

Thats not what the National Rail Season ticket calculator says. It says St Albans City to London Thameslink annual is £3,500, to zones 1-6 is £4,396, to London Terminals (LBG is included in the list) is £3,712.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thats not what the National Rail Season ticket calculator says. It says St Albans City to London Thameslink annual is £3,500, to zones 1-6 is £4,396, to London Terminals (LBG is included in the list) is £3,712.

That’s weird, or very new...

 

[greyman42]

If you were to travel from Newcastle to London terminals, you could use the ticket to carry on to Farringdon from St Pancras with GTR. However, GTR would not get any of the revenue from these that ticket. I presume that is one the issues why tickets are not valid through Thameslink.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

If you were to travel from Newcastle to London terminals, you could use the ticket to carry on to Farringdon from St Pancras with GTR. However, GTR would not get any of the revenue from these that ticket. I presume that is one the issues why tickets are not valid through Thameslink.

The revenue a TOC gets from a fare has no impact on its actual validity; the workings of ORCATS are not the passenger's concern! That being said, if a TOC doesn't get revenue from a fare, then they will be more likely to want to change things so that the fare isn't valid on their services, or so that they do get some revenue.

 

[Lee_Again]

Thats not what the National Rail Season ticket calculator says. It says St Albans City to London Thameslink annual is £3,500, to zones 1-6 is £4,396, to London Terminals (LBG is included in the list) is £3,712.

this is not true. I'll try and find the details. From St Albans, London Terminals is St Pancras (and maybe Euston, via St Albans Abbey - can't remember that bit)


I realise that the website says £3500 to TL and £3712 to LT, but that would mean a Farringdon ticket is cheaper than a St Pancras ticket.

 

[swt_passenger]

this is not true. I'll try and find the details. From St Albans, London Terminals is St Pancras (and maybe Euston, via St Albans Abbey - can't remember that bit)

I think the general concensus is that it’s not correct, which is why I asked the question in the fares forum. But as the screenshot I posted there last night shows, it is definitely what NRES is currently displaying: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/london-terminals-from-the-north-query.172343/#post-3691819

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I think the general concensus is that it’s not correct, which is why I asked the question in the fares forum. But as the screenshot I posted there last night shows, it is definitely what NRES is currently displaying.

I think the consensus is that this additional validity is not what might be expected, but the additional price is not so negligible that one could say that there was a unilateral mistake of any kind.