Hull Trains 180 on fire again.

[TUC]

A dramatic looking fault, yes. But don’t conflate that as dangerous. No smoke or flame entered passenger areas of the train, and fire protection particulars of engine raft prevented a small fire in one engine component spreading to other parts of the underframe and damaging more systems.

I know what you mean, but if a car I was in caught fire, I somehow wouldn't be reassured by 'don't worry. It was only a small fire'.

 

[JN114]

I know what you mean, but if a car I was in caught fire, I somehow wouldn't be reassured by 'don't worry. It was only a small fire'.

But continuing your analogy the car manufacturer wouldn’t go on to recall all vehicles of a particular model due to the emotional impact it had on its occupants.

There’s no denying that the 180s have had poor mechanical reliability of late, but that doesn’t make them dangerous.

 

[jon0844]

They've had many fires and certainly none have caused any injuries, although that's not to say than panic couldn't cause problems - especially if people detrained themselves.

It's more the massive inconvenience these incidents cause. Almost 2000 delay minutes! That's (depending on what rate you go by) almost £400k!

 

[Eyersey468]

Are there no waiting rooms at Doncaster? Genuine question as I haven't been there.

I'm sure there were the last time I was there

 

[TUC]

But continuing your analogy the car manufacturer wouldn’t go on to recall all vehicles of a particular model due to the emotional impact it had on its occupants.

There’s no denying that the 180s have had poor mechanical reliability of late, but that doesn’t make them dangerous.

I'm not suggesting they should be recalled. I am saying that the number of incidents means that there is some fundanental failure in design or maintenance that needs urgently addressing.

 

[ricoblade]

The only reason people from Retford are going in a taxi is because sometimes there is not an LNER alternative as Retford recieves a poor service.

As a frequent user of Retford for both Upper and Lower Level services, I wouldn't say it receives a poor service. For the size of the place, I think it receives a really good service and is really lucky being an ECML stop.

 

[Starmill]

As a frequent user of Retford for both Upper and Lower Level services, I wouldn't say it receives a poor service. For the size of the place, I think it receives a really good service and is really lucky being an ECML stop.

Services from the Low Level aren't much use in mitigation for Hull Trains though are they? And there can be gaps of almost two hours in services from the High Level

 

[infobleep]

Unless they had booked online via the Hull Trains site and so were contactable, how would they have been informed? (And, if that information was avsilable, presumably it should also have been available for the website?)

Well I'd hope the guard on the train was informed and he could inform the passengers.

 

[Failed Unit]

Services from the Low Level aren't much use in mitigation for Hull Trains though are they? And there can be gaps of almost two hours in services from the High Level

Depends. Is travelling via Sheffield on a train quicker than taxi to Newark?

 

[Bungle965]

Depends. Is travelling via Sheffield on a train quicker than taxi to Newark?

No.
Taxi should only be half an hour.
Sam

 

[TUC]

Same problem tonight with HT still not advising what the arrsngements are for tomorrow https://www.journeycheck.com/hulltrains/, and before anyone says, no its not good enough for passengers to find out en route what the arrangements are. As someone who regularly travels long distznce to London on business, I need to know before I lesve whether(barring any unforeseen disruption en route) I will get to my meetings on time. Otherwise I will needto make altrenative arrzngements. The same will apply to many other passengers.

I'm a big supporter of open access operstors but its difficult to see why snyone should stay loyal to Hull Trains when they are treating their passengers so poorly.

 

[JN114]

Be practical. Given the operating hours of their services I’d be highly doubtful their info controllers (or equivalent, I know they farm some of their control function out to TPE) are even on duty at 2300 - they don’t run trains 24/7. It’s unlikely that at this stage they’ll know the arrangements for tomorrow - I’m guessing their engineering staff are working 24/7 on getting units back into traffic, and more engineering staff will be working on nights than days so at any point before finishing up time it would be too early to say. Even if they had a strong idea of the “plan” for tomorrow other TOCs will be reluctant to agree ticket acceptance so far in advance. And even if LNER etc were agreeable enough to allow HT to advertise ticket acceptance so far in advance; everything on JourneyCheck needs resetting and republishing after 2am when there’s likely no Hull Trains staff on duty to do so - and worse pre-advertising something for the following day can prevent you from advertising it on the day.

Their website is quite clear at what is and isn’t planned to run; and is quite clear that specific train by train contingencies will be confirmed and published when known.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

TPE control manages all aspects of HTs operations. So control is in effect manned 24 hours.

 

[Sean Emmett]

Just left the 1512 from Hull. Clear announcements about the connection needed at Doncaster after every stop. Customer service rep at every station on the way I noticed (even Howden!) so I don’t think anyone can say they are in the dark about their options.

The message on their website just means you can use any service this week, not just the one you are booked on. LNER are not checking ticket validity against specific services.

Yes, the messages re need to change at Donny were clear and there was eventually a brief apology after Selby,. But still no explanation.

Screens at Donny confirmed 'Hull Trains tickets valid' for the 16.26, but didn't show that for earlier LNER or GC services.

HST on the 16.26 held Loversall Carr for late EDB KGX 91 and couldn't make up the time. KGX 10 late and HT pax 30 late. Could have been a lot worse.

 

[rich r]

There have been announcements over the station PA at Selby the last few mornings advising people waiting for the Hull Trains service to Kings Cross to change at Doncaster onto the Virgin East Coast service (I'm sure everyone knows what they meant), giving the times of departure from Doncaster and arrival in London. So it seems that at TPE station staff have been making a reasonable effort to let people know before they get on the train.

 

[DaiGog]

Arrangements cannot be communicated until they are confirmed with the operators providing the assistance. Confirmation often does not materialise until late the previous day or overnight, as certain operators like to check that the requested trains have enough capacity before confirming. Once it is received, it has to be communicated by Control who are often busy with other things as well.

 

[Stampy]

There was a Hull trains unit sat just south of Sandy in the siding, when I passed on the 1523 ThamesLink service from Peterborough yesterday..

 

[TUC]

There have been announcements over the station PA at Selby the last few mornings advising people waiting for the Hull Trains service to Kings Cross to change at Doncaster onto the Virgin East Coast service (I'm sure everyone knows what they meant), giving the times of departure from Doncaster and arrival in London. So it seems that at TPE station staff have been making a reasonable effort to let people know before they get on the train.

I don't doubt it. I just think HT could be more reassuring on their website for passengers before they start their journey, even if it was along the lines of 'we're still comfirming final arramgememts, but don't worry, we will get you to your planned Hull Trains destination'.

 

[Mugby]

Ms Emma Hardy, Labour MP for Hull West says "The trains (180s) are too old"

I wonder what she thinks about the majority of Britain's other rolling stock!

 

[mde]

Ms Emma Hardy, Labour MP for Hull West says "The trains (180s) are too old"

I wonder what she thinks about the majority of Britain's other rolling stock!

I wonder if she’s seen what Northern are running?!

 

[Starmill]

I wonder if she’s seen what Northern are running?!

Or a 1976/1977 Coastway 313, which will be with us for some time, certainly until 2021.

 

[mde]

Or a 1976/1977 Coastway 313, which will be with us for some time, certainly until 2021.

Very true - I was thinking closer to her constituency (Hull), but, I suppose she could be exposed to the 313s down in London…

I suppose there's one plus - as folks elsewhere have noted, Ms Hardy didn't pull the standard 'this wouldn't have happened under British Rail, renationalise the railways' line… an unusual one, since it seems to be the standard line from many Labour Party MPs whenever there is a railway problem.

 

[lincolnshire]

Emma Hardy was on look North the other night spouting a load of rubbish about the trains, she makes it sound like you you just pop down to your local train showroom and buy some new trains to use from this weekend.
Who ordered the the Class 180,s then in the first place and who decided that the Class, 222,s should leave Hull Trains and go to East Midlands Trains.
I bet a lot of people don,t realise that these trains only started running in service in December 2001 and only 14 five car sets was ever built. That then causes problems with spare parts etc as they then become a niche item of rolling stock.

 

[HullRailMan]

I suppose there's one plus - as folks elsewhere have noted, Ms Hardy didn't pull the standard 'this wouldn't have happened under British Rail, renationalise the railways' line… an unusual one, since it seems to be the standard line from many Labour Party MPs whenever there is a railway problem.

She was interviewed on BBC Radio Humberside on Monday and complained about the complications around connecting at Doncaster and how easy it was to get on a train that didn’t have ticket acceptance in place. She stated that this wouldn’t be the case if the railways were nationalised. Of course she failed to mention that LNER, who are refusing to carry passengers in many cases, are owned by the state.

 

[Darandio]

Of course she failed to mention that LNER, who are refusing to carry passengers in many cases, are owned by the state.

LNER aren't refusing to carry anyone. If they have a valid ticket to travel, they can happily board.

 

[paul1609]

LNER aren't refusing to carry anyone. If they have a valid ticket to travel, they can happily board.

Is there any reason why Hull Trains Ambassadors can't be present at each station to hand out any permitted tickets (at First's Expense) when they can't offer their advertised service. I don't see why the taxpayer should pick up an open operators short comings.

 

[Darandio]

Is there any reason why Hull Trains Ambassadors can't be present at each station to hand out any permitted tickets (at First's Expense) when they can't offer their advertised service. I don't see why the taxpayer should pick up an open operators short comings.

Grand Central used to do it, I cannot see a good reason why Hull Trains can't. Other than hoping LNER will do ticket acceptance more often than not and make it cheaper.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Is there any reason why Hull Trains Ambassadors can't be present at each station to hand out any permitted tickets (at First's Expense) when they can't offer their advertised service. I don't see why the taxpayer should pick up an open operators short comings.

Because that would cost money. And Hull Trains are not legally obliged to do so. So why would they?!

 

[mde]

Is there any reason why Hull Trains Ambassadors can't be present at each station to hand out any permitted tickets (at First's Expense) when they can't offer their advertised service. I don't see why the taxpayer should pick up an open operators short comings.

What makes you think the taxpayer is picking up any cost?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

She stated that this wouldn’t be the case if the railways were nationalised.

If there was only one national operator that would be so. But "Open Access" was an EU thing, so competing trains and tickets might have happened anyway, even if Railtrack and the TOCs had never been invented.