GN Class 717

[Aictos]

It'll apply to all stations that 717s will call.
Those listed, plus Watton-at-Stone, will be the priority, but all platform staff along the routes will need to know how to shut the train down, etc.

I wonder what the recommend method of shutting down the 700s/717s is though?

How do you do it compared to the other stock that platform staff have been trained on?

As to Watton-at-Stone as that only has a tiny booking office, where will the platform staff be based at that station especially when you get the 717s turning back there?

 

[Fred26]

I wonder what the recommend method of shutting down the 700s/717s is though?

How do you do it compared to the other stock that platform staff have been trained on?

As to Watton-at-Stone as that only has a tiny booking office, where will the platform staff be based at that station especially when you get the 717s turning back there?

To the first question, I don't know much, I'm afraid. I'm not trained in 700s/717s. Compared to 365s, 387s, 317s, 321s, & 313s... 700s/717s are not shut down with a button between coaches. As far as I know, they're shut down in the cab, then the dispatch staff walk through, leading passengers out at the end. Like I say, I haven't been trained on them, so I'm piecing together what others have said.

Watton-at-Stone has been manned for at least a year, more like 18 months at this point. It was only during darkness, but I'm not sure about now. As far as I know, they use the booking office.

 

[jon0844]

On a 700, ALL the doors are indeed locked and staff walk through the train. If someone is found inside, some doors near the middle can be opened via a panel, if it works. If these do not work, you can exit via the rear cab (as staff have to do themselves as the doors are locked) with the person(s) found, and hope they haven't got giant suitcases, golf bags, kitchen sinks etc.

On a 717 I've heard that they'll enter a special mode where each door is closed one by one from the inside, and once shut stays shut. This makes it a damn sight easier to get people off, while avoiding the need to step off and press external buttons. Frankly, 700s should work like this if this turns out to be the case.

Shutting down a 717 should dead quick and allow platforms to be cleared significantly faster than before; another benefit of them over a 40+ year old train.

 

[Failed Unit]

On a 700, ALL the doors are indeed locked and staff walk through the train. If someone is found inside, some doors near the middle can be opened via a panel, if it works. If these do not work, you can exit via the rear cab (as staff have to do themselves as the doors are locked) with the person(s) found, and hope they haven't got giant suitcases, golf bags, kitchen sinks etc.

On a 717 I've heard that they'll enter a special mode where each door is closed one by one from the inside, and once shut stays shut. This makes it a damn sight easier to get people off, while avoiding the need to step off and press external buttons. Frankly, 700s should work like this if this turns out to be the case.

Shutting down a 717 should dead quick and allow platforms to be cleared significantly faster than before; another benefit of them over a 40+ year old train.

What’s the problem with the 313s in this respect? They typically have 5 minutes turn arounds at WGC and Moorgate. It is normally done in the time it takes the driver to walk up the platform (with passengers on board). Will this still be possible with the 717s (assume they won’t need to close it up)

 

[jamesthegill]

To the first question, I don't know much, I'm afraid. I'm not trained in 700s/717s. Compared to 365s, 387s, 317s, 321s, & 313s... 700s/717s are not shut down with a button between coaches. As far as I know, they're shut down in the cab, then the dispatch staff walk through, leading passengers out at the end. Like I say, I haven't been trained on them, so I'm piecing together what others have said.

Watton-at-Stone has been manned for at least a year, more like 18 months at this point. It was only during darkness, but I'm not sure about now. As far as I know, they use the booking office.

There is a small locker room, toilet and kitchenette in the booking office building behind the ticket office window/desk. It is surprisingly TARDIS-like in how much they fit in!

 

[samuelmorris]

On a 700, ALL the doors are indeed locked and staff walk through the train. If someone is found inside, some doors near the middle can be opened via a panel, if it works. If these do not work, you can exit via the rear cab (as staff have to do themselves as the doors are locked) with the person(s) found, and hope they haven't got giant suitcases, golf bags, kitchen sinks etc.

On a 717 I've heard that they'll enter a special mode where each door is closed one by one from the inside, and once shut stays shut. This makes it a damn sight easier to get people off, while avoiding the need to step off and press external buttons. Frankly, 700s should work like this if this turns out to be the case.

Shutting down a 717 should dead quick and allow platforms to be cleared significantly faster than before; another benefit of them over a 40+ year old train.

Presumably similar to 345s in that regard? They are put in 'shutdown mode' (I forget the actual term) announced over the PA to the station staff, then holding the door open buttons in for a few seconds (presumably because there's no close button fitted to those units) will shut and lock the doors in that particular vehicle.

 

[Aictos]

There is a small locker room, toilet and kitchenette in the booking office building behind the ticket office window/desk. It is surprisingly TARDIS-like in how much they fit in!

The same applies to Grange Park, very much TARDIS-like!

 

[jon0844]

Presumably similar to 345s in that regard? They are put in 'shutdown mode' (I forget the actual term) announced over the PA to the station staff, then holding the door open buttons in for a few seconds (presumably because there's no close button fitted to those units) will shut and lock the doors in that particular vehicle.

Sounds like it.

 

[rebmcr]

Presumably similar to 345s in that regard? They are put in 'shutdown mode' (I forget the actual term) announced over the PA to the station staff, then holding the door open buttons in for a few seconds (presumably because there's no close button fitted to those units) will shut and lock the doors in that particular vehicle.

Same as S-Stock too.

 

[jon0844]

Same as S-Stock too.

So much better than the 700s then.

 

[Class315]

Had another delivery this morning.

717002 & another Unidentified 717 where delivered this morning to Ferme Park over 100L from Dollands Moor.

 

[notverydeep]

Had another delivery this morning.

717002 & another Unidentified 717 where delivered this morning to Ferme Park over 100L from Dollands Moor.

717011 apparently - (courtesy of Matty on UKmodernEMU yahoo group)...

 

[Failed Unit]

Presumably similar to 345s in that regard? They are put in 'shutdown mode' (I forget the actual term) announced over the PA to the station staff, then holding the door open buttons in for a few seconds (presumably because there's no close button fitted to those units) will shut and lock the doors in that particular vehicle.

So will they be able to achieve the 1 minute turn around often demanded at Moorgate at WGC with the 717s?

 

[Fred26]

So will they be able to achieve the 1 minute turn around often demanded at Moorgate at WGC with the 717s?

No. Not unless there's a driver at the other end ready to take it back out. Even then it'd be tight. It will be quicker than now, however.

 

[Failed Unit]

No. Not unless there's a driver at the other end ready to take it back out. Even then it'd be tight. It will be quicker than now, however.

Thanks. To be honest never timed them on the 313s. But seems fairly quick even with the driver changing ends. The biggest delays I have seen are passengers holding the doors open of an already late train. Nothing will stop that unfortunately. (Unless they issue platform staff with water canons. )

 

[Class315]

717011 apparently - (courtesy of Matty on UKmodernEMU yahoo group)...

Indeed it is, saw it being moved from Ferme Park to Hornsey Siemens Facility on my last trip to Welwyn GC. Thanks for the info.

Thanks. To be honest never timed them on the 313s. But seems fairly quick even with the driver changing ends. The biggest delays I have seen are passengers holding the doors open of an already late train. Nothing will stop that unfortunately. (Unless they issue platform staff with water canons. )

In the peak it’s a 6 minute turnaround, off peak the turnaround depends as some trains have been removed from the TT, leading to a longer turnaround time.

 

[Failed Unit]

In the peak it’s a 6 minute turnaround, off peak the turnaround depends as some trains have been removed from the TT, leading to a longer turnaround time.

I am well aware of the plan. But I use the route and experience the reality in the peak. They frequently arrive later and need to turn around immediately for their next duty. Certainly at WGC and Moorgate. Considering most services run at least 2-3 minutes late the 6 minute plan soon disappears.

 

[Aictos]

Thanks. To be honest never timed them on the 313s. But seems fairly quick even with the driver changing ends. The biggest delays I have seen are passengers holding the doors open of an already late train. Nothing will stop that unfortunately. (Unless they issue platform staff with water canons. )

That process of stepping up is already in use on the LUL network specifically the Waterloo and City line so it can be done.

At Moorgate it would help especially in the peaks as you get quicker turnarounds but at Welwyn GC and Hertford not so much.

As to supplying dispatchers with water cannons, awesome idea!

 

[jellybaby]

As to supplying dispatchers with water cannons, awesome idea!

Might help with the smoldering sleeper problem too.

 

[Hadders]

As to supplying dispatchers with water cannons, awesome idea!

Sounds perfect. They could even clean the tunnels at the same time

 

[jon0844]

Sounds perfect. They could even clean the tunnels at the same time

Let's not go too far!

 

[Aictos]

Sounds perfect. They could even clean the tunnels at the same time

Well they need doing, it's a pity they just can't reduce the timetable down there to 6am to 10pm Monday to Friday and divert into Kings Cross outside these hours like they used to for a few months and use that time to carry out the much needed cleaning, they might even get away with only doing this for 6 weeks if they really cracked on!

Which I think is far more acceptable and less of a pain to users of the line.

 

[Fincra5]

Thanks. To be honest never timed them on the 313s. But seems fairly quick even with the driver changing ends. The biggest delays I have seen are passengers holding the doors open of an already late train. Nothing will stop that unfortunately. (Unless they issue platform staff with water canons. )

313's are brilliant to set up! No Computers or anything to slow it down. Just Key on, Brake Test, Radio (and PIS). 30seconds Bish-Bash-Bosh

 

[rebmcr]

I am well aware of the plan. But I use the route and experience the reality in the peak. They frequently arrive later and need to turn around immediately for their next duty. Certainly at WGC and Moorgate. Considering most services run at least 2-3 minutes late the 6 minute plan soon disappears.

Quicker acceleration might well eliminate the delays causing that.

 

[Failed Unit]

Quicker acceleration might well eliminate the delays causing that.

Certainly be interesting to say out. GN suffers from a lot of reactionary delays because the service is planned to minimum headway’s.

Examples
Southbound if the Cambridge- London service is late at WGC because of issues getting through the 2 track section. The following Moorgate service is delayed.

Northbound
Train out of core blocks platform 7. London - Cambridge is held. 313 held at Alexander palace.

At the moment the 313 never recovers. Hopefully the 717s will.

 

[Aictos]

313's are brilliant to set up! No Computers or anything to slow it down. Just Key on, Brake Test, Radio (and PIS). 30seconds Bish-Bash-Bosh

Indeed they're solid workhorses and not much gets in their way .

 

[absolutelymilk]

Any idea when passenger services will start properly?

 

[APUK002]

313's are brilliant to set up! No Computers or anything to slow it down. Just Key on, Brake Test, Radio (and PIS). 30seconds Bish-Bash-Bosh

Only southerns 313’s have PIS

 

[Aictos]

Only southerns 313’s have PIS

Which should have been retro fitted to the GN fleet at the same time.

 

[jon0844]

Which should have been retro fitted to the GN fleet at the same time.

I am more shocked they didn't add CCTV to the 365s, which are staying a while longer.