An Unhappy Journey (Return trip from Duffield to Manchester)

[RichmondCommu]

Hi everyone,

During the summer my husband and I traveled to Manchester for the weekend. Our journey to Manchester on the Saturday (split at Edale) was actually really good. The early evening train to Manchester was packed after it left Edale (the platform at Edale being full of day trippers) but I don't blame Northern for that; after all if they had a spare unit I dare say they would have strengthened the train.

Sadly our journey home on the Sunday afternoon was an absolute shambles. On arrival at Manchester Piccadilly (platform 13?) the island platform was absolutely rammed. The only member of staff to be seen on the platform was a young man who barely looked 18 and in all fairness looked to be frightened and scared. We actually felt sorry for him as he looked completely out of his depth. Everyone of course needs to start somewhere in their working life but surely it would have made more sense to put someone more experienced on the platform?

It quickly became obvious that our EMT service to Sheffield was delayed and yet we were offered no explanation as to why. Finally our train arrives into the platform and EMT / Network Rail seemingly then did their very best to cause as much chaos as possible. After the train arrived into the platform instead of telling passengers which carriages were A,B,C and D passengers were essentially just told to pile on and hope for the best. Not suprisingly it then took passengers at least 15 minutes to find their reservations throughout the train. My husband and I simply got lucky in that the carriage that we entered was where our allocated seats were situated. Not only that but two apparently gormless employees were trying to prevent passengers from the entering the doors closest to the stairs.

Between Chinley and the entrance to Cowburn tunnel we grind to a virual halt and yet still no explanation is offered. And yet worse is still to come. On passing through Dore I look on Real Time Trains and can see straight away which platform our train south will be leaving from. We will only have a minute to get our train and so quickly make our way to the doors at the end of the train. And yet at no time does our guard make any effort to give passengers the details of connecting trains, exactly the same information that I have been able to gather. Not only that but the lazy lump doesn't make any effort to leave his cab and get ready to release the doors until our train has stopped.

Despite my husband and I running like the clappers we miss our train (EMT). We then spy an EMT employee and ask him what we can do (we have advanced tickets and so can only travel on specified trains). The nice man then writes train reporting numbers on the back of our tickets and tells us to board the Cross Country train which is about to roll into another platform across the bridge. We do as we are told and find plenty of available seats in the train which is formed of two Voyagers.

No sooner have we settled down then we are told that EMT passengers are not allowed to travel on this train! We get off the train, confront someone who is clearly a member of the onboard team and tell him exactly what we think of todays non-joined up railway. He's clearly had enough of us because he then allows to get back on the train after we tell him that we are only going as far as Derby.

The journey to Derby is fine but on arrival into Derby it seems that they are not better organised then they are in Manchester. However at least this time it doesn't affect us. Not long after we arrive in Derby a three car class 170 arrives from Birmingham heading to Nottingham. Having sat in the platform for a few minutes the passengers on board the train are all told that the train is going to be terminated due to track circuit problems in Nottingham. What follows is absolute madness. Having been told that some trains are now able to get through, instead of asking passengers to get back on the class 170 they are advised to get on a single car 153 running from Matlock to Nottingham! Where on earth is the sense in this?

Our journey home to Duffield was trouble free.

I'm 52 and have been a rail fan all my life and so have no desire to slag off the railway. For what its worth we did not complain to the TOC's (perhaps we should have done) but having lived overseas for many years (returned home for good at the start of year) the network that I used to love appears to have now become an absolute mess.

Your thoughts would be very welcome.

Best wishes,

Angela

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[Adlington]

During the summer my husband and I traveled to Manchester for the weekend.

May I respectfully suggest that in your future trip reports you clearly state, somewhere near the beginning, the departure station? It's obvious to you, but not to anybody else...
And may the next report(s) be more cheerful...

 

[yorkie]

Were you 30 or more minutes late into Duffield? If so, you can claim Delay Repay compensation

To be honest I'm not surprised about your poor experience of rail travel. Everything you describe is absolutely normal for a Saturday journey to Manchester.

 

[yorksrob]

I've come to the conclusion that seat reservations on anything less than a full length InterCity train are more trouble than they're worth. On busy trains of the type that frequent 13 and 14 at Manchester Pic, you end up with the first lot boarding, wandering up and down the aisle because all the unoccupied seats are reserved from there. Everyone behind is delayed getting on until eventually everyone just sits down where they can, because anyone who did have a reservation won't be able to get past everyone else.

 

[Kite159]

The biggest problem with Piccadilly platform 13 & 14 is where the trains stop, on a standard pair of 158s the rear door will be mostly alongside the entrance to the platform from the stairs so it will tend to get more crowded (because some passengers don't walk down the platform to board nearer the front.

 

[Adlington]

After the train arrived into the platform instead of telling passengers which carriages were A,B,C and D

Aren't the carriages clearly marked A,B,C... ?

I've come to the conclusion that seat reservations on anything less than a full length InterCity train are more trouble than they're worth.

Unless you board the train at a busy station and want a guaranteed seat.

 

[talltim]

Aren't the carriages clearly marked A,B,C... ?

Not really. They have a panel on the inside of the door window with it on.

[url="https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-east-midlands-trains-regional-passenger-train-waiting-at-leicester-61264760.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=5A4F1AA6-EC75-4D16-8A48-378674219281&p=69726&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo=bar&st=0&pn=1&ps=100&sortby=2&resultview=sortbyPopular&npgs=0&qt=leicester%20train%20station&qt_raw=leicester%20train%20station&lic=3&mr=0&pr=0&ot=0&creative=&ag=0&hc=0&pc=&blackwhite=&cutout=&tbar=1&et=0x000000000000000000000&vp=0&loc=0&imgt=0&dtfr=&dtto=&size=0xFF&archive=1&groupid=&pseudoid=&a=&cdid=&cdsrt=&name=&qn=&apalib=&apalic=&lightbox=&gname=&gtype=&xstx=0&simid=&saveQry=&editorial=1&nu=&t=&edoptin=&customgeoip=&cap=1&cbstore=1&vd=0&lb=&fi=2&edrf=&ispremium=1&flip=0"]Photo[/URL]
And they can be in any order ABCD BACD ABDC BADC and reversed.

 

[Adlington]

They have a panel on the inside of the door window with it on

So they are marked.

 

[Kite159]

So they are marked.

But it is easy to to miss the letters in the door if the platform is busy.

 

[Adlington]

But it is easy to to miss the letters in the door if the platform is busy.

So what's your suggestion?

 

[Kite159]

So what's your suggestion?

Although in theory the EMT services should be in a set order for coach lettering wise, due to it losing an unit at Nottingham (so you don't want Bert & Ada getting a seat reservation for their day trip to Norwich from Manchester ending up sat in the part which terminates). So into Piccadilly for example it should be coaches C & D in the front unit and coaches A & B in the rear unit, either way round, this gets announced so at least those passengers with seats in C & D can head towards the front of the platform.

It's the same with voyagers, they can arrive with 1st class leading or coach F leading, some stations are better than others at saying the formation

 

[BigDave]

Bit of advice required I've only ever made 1 delay claim which was pretty straight forward n got paid out. However last week i had a journey made up of 2 connections the second train(a virgin train) was delayed by 36 mins thus causing me to miss my connection making the delay to the entire journey a total of 1 hr 21 mins. When filling virgin delay repay form in do I claim for the 36 or 81 mins?

 

[talltim]

So they are marked.

And the 156s that turn up on the service don’t have the letters at all
(Just realised that that photo isn’t a great example, it has ‘a’s all over the side of the train!)

 

[talltim]

Bit of advice required I've only ever made 1 delay claim which was pretty straight forward n got paid out. However last week i had a journey made up of 2 connections the second train(a virgin train) was delayed by 36 mins thus causing me to miss my connection making the delay to the entire journey a total of 1 hr 21 mins. When filling virgin delay repay form in do I claim for the 36 or 81 mins?

The whole delay

 

[RichmondCommu]

Were you 30 or more minutes late into Duffield? If so, you can claim Delay Repay compensation

To be honest I'm not surprised about your poor experience of rail travel. Everything you describe is absolutely normal for a Saturday journey to Manchester.

Well you see this is the thing. We were actually on time on our arrival back in Duffield thanks to the way that the Matlock trains are timetabled which was always going to give us plenty of time at Derby. What annoyed us was not the delays (they can to all modes of transport) but the shocking levels of customer service and organisation.

 

[BigDave]

The whole delay

Ok thanks thought I'd best check to be sure

 

[RichmondCommu]

RealTimeTrains et al often provide better quality and more detailed information than the official apps which are provided on staff phones, in my experience, and yet it's not all that unusual for websites like RTT to be blocked by the companies so the staff can't get into them unless they use their own phones. And we all know how the railway views staff use of personal phones nowadays.

Sometimes you could be forgiven for thinking that companies believe that staff shouldn't have access to any information as the poor dears will only get confused by it, and they certainly shouldn't be provided the sort of information which will allow them to help their customers, the passengers on their trains.

Many thanks for your inside information! However I do think it would have been helpful if the guard had left his cab before the train had come to a halt in Sheffield.

 

[yorkie]

Well you see this is the thing. We were actually on time on our arrival back in Duffield thanks to the way that the Matlock trains are timetabled which was always going to us plenty of time at Derby. What annoyed us was not the delays (they can to all modes of transport) but the shocking levels of customer service and organisation.

I am sorry to say that this is absolutely normal for this journey on a Saturday and will be for the foreseeable future.

If anything, the Saturdays at the end of November and in early to mid December are going to be even worse.

 

[yorkie]

Bit of advice required I've only ever made 1 delay claim which was pretty straight forward n got paid out. However last week i had a journey made up of 2 connections the second train(a virgin train) was delayed by 36 mins thus causing me to miss my connection making the delay to the entire journey a total of 1 hr 21 mins. When filling virgin delay repay form in do I claim for the 36 or 81 mins?

The basic question has been answered but feel free to create a new thread. Can you itemise the ticket(s) you had in one list, and itemise the trains you took in a separate list and post a draft letter. I will be happy to proof read it (please tag me into the thread by typing @yorkie ) as I think that wording the letter right can make a difference as to whether or not such a claim is issued correctly and promptly.

 

[RichmondCommu]

May I respectfully suggest that in your future trip reports you clearly state, somewhere near the beginning, the departure station? It's obvious to you, but not to anybody else...
And may the next report(s) be more cheerful...

Now of course you weren't to know this but I didn't actually post my complaint under this section. It was in fact moved by the people who run this website. In fact in hindsight there really wasn't much in mentioning the outbound journey to Manchester as nothing actually went wrong. In fact it was a brilliant day from start to finish!

 

[yorkie]

Now of course you weren't to know this but I didn't actually post my complaint under this section....

That's a red herring. The forum rule requiring descriptive thread titles applies to all forum sections

I have edited it for you, but you can change it yourself by going to "Thread Tools > Edit Title" in the menu at the top of the thread.

 

[RichmondCommu]

If anything, the Saturdays at the end of November and in early to mid December are going to be even worse.

Why, what's going to happen then? Our eldest son and his girlfriend bought their apartment in Central Manchester at the end of June but since our disappointing rail journey we have driven up there. However as we no longer need to cart stuff up there we were thinking of starting to take the train. Any information that you can give us would be much appreciated.

Best wishes, Angela.

 

[RichmondCommu]

That's a red herring. The forum rule requiring descriptive thread titles applies to all forum sections

I have edited it for you, but you can change it yourself by going to "Thread Tools > Edit Title" in the menu at the top of the thread.

Okay smarty pants! I meant to say I didn't intend to post this in the same section as trainspotting trips. Not that there is anything wrong with trainspotting trips of course!

 

[RichmondCommu]

So what's your suggestion?

Stand by for a bit of female logic. Why not have electronic signs along the platform (I'm guessing that most carriages are roughly the same length) to help people and an announcement saying "look out for the fancy electronic signs".

 

[sprinterguy]

Stand by for a bit of female logic. Why not have electronic signs along the platform (I'm guessing that most carriages are roughly the same length) to help people and an announcement saying "look out for the fancy electronic signs".

They do this very well in Switzerland, where platforms are split into zones and an electronic pictogram of the train formation on the platform information screens displays which zone each carriage will be in. Actually having enough electronic screens along the length of the platform to say "Coach A here" would make things even more straightforward.

Virgin West Coast have been using a zonal system for some time to a lesser extent in this country, using zones to denote where first class/standard class will be. Though, for completeness, a different zonal system was first introduced by BR Intercity on the West Coast route (I'm unsure if it was utilised on any other main lines).

 

[gtis]

Why, what's going to happen then? Our eldest son and his girlfriend bought their apartment in Central Manchester at the end of June but since our disappointing rail journey we have driven up there. However as we no longer need to cart stuff up there we were thinking of starting to take the train. Any information that you can give us would be much appreciated.

Best wishes, Angela.

Probably timetable changes and Christmas shoppers
Neil

 

[D841 Roebuck]

You could go Duffield to Manchester via Derby and Stoke. Probably not much longer in terms of time, but your train from Stoke is likely to be less crowded, will leave from the same platform you arrive at, and isn't aiming for P13/14 at Piccadilly. Same applies in reverse, too!