Water cranes Firenze (Florence) SMN

[The Crab]

Taking a train into Firenze at the weeekend I was surprised to see a water crane at the remains of the depot just outside SMN station. I was astonished to see another one at a platform end, I think platform 6. I tried to photograph them from our return train but was thwarted by other movements.
I assume that these cranes date from the 1934 rebuiding of the station but does anyone know why they remain? Are there steam specials in Italy?

 

[Calthrop]

I gather -- although such matters are not really my scene -- that a fairish number of steam specials do run in Italy, with preserved locos, and including in the general Firenze area -- largely, chartered by holiday-and-touring outfits. I believe that such specials have been running in Italy for a considerable time past.

Also: a small amount of non-preserved / special steam action, continued sporadically in Italy, until a definitely late date: pretty much, I think, longer than on any other State system in Western Europe. One sees a scenario of water cranes being retained until late on, for such "genuine" movements; and maybe no particular hurry on the part of FS, to abolish them -- possibly, having potential future "steam for fun" doings in mind.

 

[The Crab]

Thank you, that's useful background.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

They used to be everywhere (almost) .......certainly places like Verona and Trento.

 

[Iskra]

They are still quite common on the Italian network. I noted some at Reggio Calabria last summer.

I wasn’t aware of steam specials around Florence, but they do run around Milan over the summer, I actually saw one in steam at the depot outside Milano Centrale this summer.

There are many difficulties in Italian steam preservation, only trains and drivers certified by RFI can use the network and they pay the same access charges as regular trains to use the track so the economics are challenging. RFI don’t seem to like heritage trains getting in the way on the railway so aren’t very accommodating.

Picture in post 247 of water crane:

URL="https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/iskras-odysseys.108357/page-9#post-3562360"]Iskra's Odysseys[/URL]

 

[ChiefPlanner]

They are still quite common on the Italian network. I noted some at Reggio Calabria last summer.

I wasn’t aware of steam specials around Florence, but they do run around Milan over the summer, I actually saw one in steam at the depot outside Milano Centrale this summer.

There are many difficulties in Italian steam preservation, only trains and drivers certified by RFI can use the network and they pay the same access charges as regular trains to use the track so the economics are challenging. RFI don’t seem to like heritage trains getting in the way on the railway so aren’t very accommodating.

As a young man - Interailing in the late 1970's , I did see a load of stored 2-6-0 tender engines stored serviceable at Venice Mestre , and a few others parked around , coaled and greased up - almost ready to run - so I asked a friendly English speaking conductor , who told me they were kept handy in case of power failures ...quite a wise move , so some of the traction and necessary equipment has survived over 40 years . Mind you n those days you had pre-war chocolate liveried streamlined railcars in service , plus wooden bodied , grey painted passenger stock on local services.

Not to forget great picnic hampers sold on platforms with cold chicken , decent bread and salad , red wine of course - for not a lot of money....

 

[Iskra]

As a young man - Interailing in the late 1970's , I did see a load of stored 2-6-0 tender engines stored serviceable at Venice Mestre , and a few others parked around , coaled and greased up - almost ready to run - so I asked a friendly English speaking conductor , who told me they were kept handy in case of power failures ...quite a wise move , so some of the traction and necessary equipment has survived over 40 years . Mind you n those days you had pre-war chocolate liveried streamlined railcars in service , plus wooden bodied , grey painted passenger stock on local services.

Not to forget great picnic hampers sold on platforms with cold chicken , decent bread and salad , red wine of course - for not a lot of money....

Although often held high as an example of modern high speed rail, it is often overlooked that steam carried on into the 1980’s in Italy in regular service in some parts. Last summer I saw 2 rusting steam locos parked up under a motorway bridge on the main line between Turin and Milan as if someone had just put them there for the night and then forgotten all about them.

Preservation did seem to be based on local initiative depending on the goodwill of the regional/depot management apparently.

I find Italy still something of an anachronism today with plenty of loco hauled services involved in movements that we consider archaic.

Although I’ve not come across such hampers, wherever there is a station there is always somewhere to get food. In the south it’s still good, cheap, locally produced and fresh. I love it.

We’re they the type of loco pictured here:

Iskra's Odysseys

Those seem to be the main type I see on my travels.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Although often held high as an example of modern high speed rail, it is often overlooked that steam carried on into the 1980’s in Italy in regular service in some parts. Last summer I saw 2 rusting steam locos parked up under a motorway bridge on the main line between Turin and Milan as if someone had just put them there for the night and then forgotten all about them.

Preservation did seem to be based on local initiative depending on the goodwill of the regional/depot management apparently.

I find Italy still something of an anachronism today with plenty of loco hauled services involved in movements that we consider archaic.

Although I’ve not come across such hampers, wherever there is a station there is always somewhere to get food. In the south it’s still good, cheap, locally produced and fresh. I love it.

With you there - the odd ambience of nipping into a local cafe for a restoring coffee at about 0630 before getting a train , to find a steady flow of locals diving in for a hot black coffee and a Grappa - downed in one , money slammed on counter and off to work. Great sandwiches , pizza served in squares folded over onto greasproof paper for carry out.....

We also observed cattle trains , live cattle in semi-open vans .......

Most passenger trains had a quote of clerics and nuns , (old school ones) , so we joked that before a train left a terminus , the safety checks included brake tests, first aid boxes , tools etc - + NUNS (i per 4 cars)

 

[Calthrop]

Although often held high as an example of modern high speed rail, it is often overlooked that steam carried on into the 1980’s in Italy in regular service in some parts. Last summer I saw 2 rusting steam locos parked up under a motorway bridge on the main line between Turin and Milan as if someone had just put them there for the night and then forgotten all about them.

As a young man - Interailing in the late 1970's , I did see a load of stored 2-6-0 tender engines stored serviceable at Venice Mestre , and a few others parked around , coaled and greased up - almost ready to run - so I asked a friendly English speaking conductor , who told me they were kept handy in case of power failures ...quite a wise move , so some of the traction and necessary equipment has survived over 40 years . Mind you n those days you had pre-war chocolate liveried streamlined railcars in service , plus wooden bodied , grey painted passenger stock on local services.

I was given to understand that a considerable factor in Italian steam's remaining at least "quasi-active" as long as it did, was a bureaucratic one: even after meaningful regular use of steam anywhere in Italy had more or less ceased, rules continued to stipulate that each major traffic centre should retain a steam loco or two in working order, and the necessary facilities for them; and it was ordered that every so often at a decreed interval of time, a steam-hauled train from each centre, should be run. The rationale, I gather, was chiefly "for potential emergencies" -- power failures, as mentioned by ChiefPlanner, or other possible scenarios of disruption. In this way, the final decline of FS steam was pretty slow and long-drawn-out.

 

[Taunton]

Taormina, Sicily, 5 years ago was notable for having nicely repainted water cranes, on an overhead electrified line - and I see they are still there.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.846...4!1sdTmpt9X5zCMktgn4J_dgbg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Further down the line, at the Syracuse terminus, there was a steam loco - and that's still there as well.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.068...4!1s0-YaCXAhD3eAFzIGFgxMhw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I noted two steam locomotives and water columns on the eastern Sicily lines down to Catania back in 2015.

 

[The Crab]

This is most interesting, I had assumed that Italy was a steam desert from the early 60s!

 

[52290]

This is most interesting, I had assumed that Italy was a steam desert from the early 60s!

In the early 1970's I made several trips to Italy in search of steam visiting sheds in Verona, Domodosola, Cremona,Cuneo, Alessandria and Asti after,of course acquiring the necessary permits from the FS.
In 1972 I decided to head further south visiting the line from Viterbo to Rome which was partially steam operated by class 740 2-8-0's. There was only a few steam hauled trains into Roma Termini at this time and I arrived in platform 27 behind a somewhat grimy 740 009.
Even normal passengers on the station were whipping their cameras out when they saw the relic from the past appear at Rome's show piece station. Rome Trastavere shed dealt with steam at that time and was rumoured to keep an immaculate class 640 2-6-0 in store solely for use with the Pope's private train although I couldn't verify this as the FS wouldn't give me a permit for Trastavere.
From Rome I took a night train to Paola in Calabria. This train included a first class carriage for Cosenza, a town high up in the mountains. I was traveling second class so I had to bail out at around three in the morning and hang around Paola station while the through carriage from Rome was attached to an ancient second class carriage for the locals. Behind this was a class 981 0-6-0 rack tank loco which was to push the whole thing up the mountain, 59 km in 2hrs 30 mins! After emerging from a tunnel into Castiglione station the loco switched to the front of the train for the last fifteen minutes run into Cosenza. This was the only steam passenger working up the mountain, the return being around nine o'clock at night. Some enthusiasts claim there was an unadvertised mixed train during the day time.
From Cosenza I traveled on the narrow gauge line to Cantanzaro in a railcar, though there was a ng rack loco in steam at Cantanzaro Citta station. I believe that this line has been severed by a landslide so it is not possible to do this journey as of now.

 

[Calthrop]

In the early 1970's I made several trips to Italy in search of steam visiting sheds in Verona, Domodosola, Cremona,Cuneo, Alessandria and Asti after,of course acquiring the necessary permits from the FS.
In 1972 I decided to head further south visiting the line from Viterbo to Rome which was partially steam operated by class 740 2-8-0's. There was only a few steam hauled trains into Roma Termini at this time and I arrived in platform 27 behind a somewhat grimy 740 009.
Even normal passengers on the station were whipping their cameras out when they saw the relic from the past appear at Rome's show piece station. Rome Trastavere shed dealt with steam at that time and was rumoured to keep an immaculate class 640 2-6-0 in store solely for use with the Pope's private train although I couldn't verify this as the FS wouldn't give me a permit for Trastavere.

With your mentions of permits: do I understand rightly (I've never, myself, actually visited Italy) that some decades back, Italy was the only western European country where you could get into significant trouble for unauthorised railway photography? (Not as badly as in the Communist bloc, but enough to annoy and sometimes to frustrate and restrict, the photographer.) This would seem at odds with the generally-perceived friendly and laid-back Italian national character; but I gather that there has overall always been little "rhyme or reason" as to where, and to what degree, those on the spot have tended to suffer from this particular brain-maggot.

 

[52290]

With your mentions of permits: do I understand rightly (I've never, myself, actually visited Italy) that some decades back, Italy was the only western European country where you could get into significant trouble for unauthorised railway photography? (Not as badly as in the Communist bloc, but enough to annoy and sometimes to frustrate and restrict, the photographer.) This would seem at odds with the generally-perceived friendly and laid-back Italian national character; but I gather that there has overall always been little "rhyme or reason" as to where, and to what degree, those on the spot have tended to suffer from this particular brain-maggot.

Indeed,even with my permits I was arrested on Alessandria station by armed police for taking photographs. I was taken to their office and my papers were examined and I was subsequently released with a friendly handshake. At the loco sheds I was received with nothing but kindness and often a member of the staff would be delegated to show me round. I gained the impression that railway enthusiasts were thin on the ground in Italy.

 

[Iskra]

Wow arrested for taking photos.

The Italian police are still very active today, I spend a month a year there and in the South due to the serious organised crime that occurs, it is entirely normal to be pulled over at a road block by men with machine guns and asked to prove who you are (it's the law to carry ID) and explain what you are doing. If I'm in a British registered car they leave me alone, but they take great interest in me when I have a hire car. It's just how things are in the South especially.