Guard gives woman a note!

[trainophile]

Maybe it's a male/female thing. I'm the latter. Strangers starting to chat without being encouraged to do so feels inappropriate.

 

[Iskra]

Good grief I’ve struck up loads of conversations with strangers on trains.

I’d rather have people start conversations than sit in silence. Nothing wrong with being sociable.

This woman seemingly felt glad someone was aware they looked uncomfortable!

That's great, but crucially some people lack social awareness, such as knowing when someone doesn't want to talk or is feeling uncomfortable.

If I'm in the mood, I may spend hours talking to a stranger who strikes up conversation. If I'm not, I'll politely close down the conversation.

Unfortunately, weird people exist and there's nothing wrong with not wanting to talk to random people you've never met before.

 

[alxndr]

I’m shocked that there is any controversy about this.

There must have been some reason for the guard to question how comfortable the woman was and they came up with a scenario where they could offer help—if needed—without making an obvious scene. In this instance they were wrong, but no harm done. It doesn’t hurt to err on the side of caution at all (and might even make other people feel more comfortable travelling).

Not all men/strangers are creeps or up to anything dodgy, but the sad truth is that there are enough of them out there that some people don’t feel entirely comfortable. Just the other night a friend asked me to accompany them as they didn’t want to walk down an alleyway alone in dusk. Might seem daft without context, but there have been incidents of indecent exposure/stabbing in that spot. The majority of people using that footpath are good people, but enough aren’t that there are concerns. Similar applies.

 

[rs101]

I think the best policy for people of both sexes travelling on their own is to avoid getting into conversation of any sort with a stranger. A polite nod when someone (e.g.) moves a bag so you can sit down, or stands up to let you out, but anything beyond merely looking pleasant could be perceived as an invitation to engage in conversation, which most likely one or other party doesn't want.

I know I for one do not encourage any form of interaction with a stranger, you just don't know who they are and what they might have in mind.

Don't ever travel on the Marta in Atlanta then (their subway system). I spend about 6 weeks a year working out there and use it every day. And pretty much every day someone in the carriage will start a conversation with other passengers they obviously don't know!

 

[mpthomson]

Don't ever travel on the Marta in Atlanta then (their subway system). I spend about 6 weeks a year working out there and use it every day. And pretty much every day someone in the carriage will start a conversation with other passengers they obviously don't know!

Or on any form of late night transport in the north-east of England. General conversations are common amongst passengers on the buses.

 

[NSEFAN]

Don't ever travel on the Marta in Atlanta then (their subway system). I spend about 6 weeks a year working out there and use it every day. And pretty much every day someone in the carriage will start a conversation with other passengers they obviously don't know!

Cultural differences. God help you if you try and strike up conversation with a stranger on the tube. In fact, attempts to make conversation can even get you arrested!

 

[ComUtoR]

She could have been autistic and thus uncomfortable with social situations.

She could have been a homicidal maniac and she was comfortable with the person talking to her so she could lure him back to her flat to murder him.
He could have been a Doctor and had noticed something about her and was giving her advice to visit her GP.

She could have been a famous celebrity and he recognized her.
He could have a mental illness.

 

[Mintona]

It’s not difficult to not harass women. If somebody doesn’t want to talk to you then don’t talk to them.

 

[craigybagel]

Moving on from debates that are in danger of vearing wildly off topic.....

It's impossible to train guards on all the different possible scenarios they might face on the job. What we are trained to do is to be able to make sensible decisions and react to any issues we might come across.

In the instance, the guard saw a situation where there was a risk of a passenger being in a bad situation. He found a way to check on her welfare without risking a confrontation. His training and intelligence kicked in, and he did a great job.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

She could have been autistic and thus uncomfortable with social situations.

Certainly possible, but beware extrapolating railway forums to the real world.

 

[northwichcat]

It seems the woman mentioned in the original post gets approached by more men than she wants. I think an underlying problem is overall very few women approach a man they find attractive and men aren't generally good at reading the body language of a woman they don't know, so the end result is a considerable number of men looking for a potential partner end up approaching a lot of women before they get the result they want.

 

[northwichcat]

It’s not difficult to not harass women. If somebody doesn’t want to talk to you then don’t talk to them.

One day at a social event I noticed there was a woman in her 30s talking to a man in his 50s. A bit later I noticed the woman was sat at a table by herself looking dispirited, as I was passing I asked if she was alright. Turns out the man was trying to hit on her and in her opinion he was old enough to be her dad so she didn't appreciate it. She instantly came across to me as friendly, polite and talkative so while she was happy to tell a complete stranger she didn't want a guy was old enough to be her dad hitting on her, she probably was too polite to say it to just come out and say that to the man who had been hitting on her.

 

[AlterEgo]

In the instance, the guard saw a situation where there was a risk of a passenger being in a bad situation.

The man was talking to the woman. That’s all that happened.

She wasn’t in the least bit at risk.

 

[craigybagel]

The man was talking to the woman. That’s all that happened.

She wasn’t in the least bit at risk.

As he found out. But it's his job to check these things. In his opinion, there was a risk. He made an enquiry, and satisfied himself that there was no risk. He did his job.

 

[AlterEgo]

As he found out. But it's his job to check these things. In his opinion, there was a risk. He made an enquiry, and satisfied himself that there was no risk. He did his job.

But it’s not acceptable to suggest that a man talking to a woman may be a risk.

That’s all that was happening. There was nothing else going on, or any reason for suspicion, as the woman confirms.

 

[richw]

Wrong on so many fronts.

Ticket checking comes secondary to safe operation AND customer service, as is the case at every TOC.

I travelled on a South Western Railway service earlier this week, and this was very evident. In 2 hours the guard came through multiple times, chatting to passengers but not once conducted a ticket check.

 

[Llanigraham]

But it’s not acceptable to suggest that a man talking to a woman may be a risk.

That’s all that was happening. There was nothing else going on, or any reason for suspicion, as the woman confirms.

But as usual for this forum we weren't there so we don't know what the guard was seeing was suspicious to him or not, but certain members are willing to criticise him for doing his job.

I wonder what the reaction of those same members would be if the lady was being harrased and she had been grateful for the intervention?

 

[craigybagel]

But it’s not acceptable to suggest that a man talking to a woman may be a risk.

That’s all that was happening. There was nothing else going on, or any reason for suspicion, as the woman confirms.

But it IS a risk. As unpleasant as it may be to accept, the fact is that not every interaction between two people is innocent. There is always a risk.

For whatever reason, this guard decided that he thought the risk was great enough in this particular circumstance that he wanted to make further enquiries, to ascertain how innocent the situation was. Given the lady concerned appreciated the gesture enough that she was prepared to post about it online, and in further comments has suggested she's quite happy with the fact it's gone viral, she obviously sees nothing wrong with the guard checking on her. Would the unnamed man in this situation be unhappy if he knew about this? Perhaps - but thanks to the discrete way in which the conductor handled the situation, it's not an issue.

I would say it's much better to take that risk and the risks of some men on a forum getting upset then to ignore their instincts any time that feel something might be up, and consequently fail to deal with a genuine problem where their intervention was required.

 

[northwichcat]

But it IS a risk. As unpleasant as it may be to accept, the fact is that not every interaction between two people is innocent. There is always a risk.

For whatever reason, this guard decided that he thought the risk was great enough in this particular circumstance that he wanted to make further enquiries, to ascertain how innocent the situation was. Given the lady concerned appreciated the gesture enough that she was prepared to post about it online, and in further comments has suggested she's quite happy with the fact it's gone viral, she obviously sees nothing wrong with the guard checking on her. Would the unnamed man in this situation be unhappy if he knew about this? Perhaps - but thanks to the discrete way in which the conductor handled the situation, it's not an issue.

I would say it's much better to take that risk and the risks of some men on a forum getting upset then to ignore their instincts any time that feel something might be up, and consequently fail to deal with a genuine problem where their intervention was required.

Someone who hasn't spoken to you could rob you, beat you up, sexually assault you etc. Other people are risks regardless if they open their mouth. In fact sometimes talking to a stranger can put them at ease if they are nervous by being around strangers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wrong on so many fronts.

Ticket checking comes secondary to safe operation AND customer service, as is the case at every TOC.

I think in practice this can often depend on individual staff. Safety (including passenger personal safety) is pretty much always first (that muppet Merseyrail guard[1] aside) but I would suggest that some guards will put customer service first and others revenue.

[1] Not Martin Zee, the other one who was negligent in belling a train off with someone leaning on it.

 

[30907]

There was nothing else going on, or any reason for suspicion, as the woman confirms.

No, the woman confirms that she had no concerns (but appreciated someone else's concern). None of us knows the detail of the encounter, how full the train was, where the man sat...

 

[trainophile]

The problem with initially being pleasant to someone who exchanges the time of day is that some may take it as encouragement to offload their entire life story, and it becomes very difficult to shut them down without appearing rude. Therefore it is easier not to get into that situation in the first place.

 

[AlterEgo]

But it IS a risk. As unpleasant as it may be to accept, the fact is that not every interaction between two people is innocent. There is always a risk.

For whatever reason, this guard decided that he thought the risk was great enough in this particular circumstance that he wanted to make further enquiries, to ascertain how innocent the situation was. Given the lady concerned appreciated the gesture enough that she was prepared to post about it online, and in further comments has suggested she's quite happy with the fact it's gone viral, she obviously sees nothing wrong with the guard checking on her. Would the unnamed man in this situation be unhappy if he knew about this? Perhaps - but thanks to the discrete way in which the conductor handled the situation, it's not an issue.

I would say it's much better to take that risk and the risks of some men on a forum getting upset then to ignore their instincts any time that feel something might be up, and consequently fail to deal with a genuine problem where their intervention was required.

Try justifying the “risk” between a black youth sitting next to an older and wealthier white man, and the guard passing the white guy a note. The stats show the older white man is far more likely to be a victim of crime from the younger black man than the other way around. What if the guard’s instincts told him the black guy looked dodgy and might rob the old fella?

Go on. I dare you. Justify the guard passing the old white guy a note.

The woman clarifies absolutely that the interaction in her case was completely innocent! I’d like to see her do the black guy comparison too and we’ll see if that’s acceptable.

Why is suspecting men of being potential harassers because of their gender acceptable? Why are men letting this happen?

What is wrong with society?

 

[AlterEgo]

No, the woman confirms that she had no concerns (but appreciated someone else's concern). None of us knows the detail of the encounter, how full the train was, where the man sat...

The woman does and she clarifies it was simply a case of a man talking to her on a train. That’s it! There’s no more to the story!

 

[Darandio]

The woman does and she clarifies it was simply a case of a man talking to her on a train. That’s it! There’s no more to the story!

Which is why i'm puzzled that the thread has degenerated into advice not to talk to any strangers ever. God knows how people are going to meet in the future, maybe our species is at risk? It's a sad indictment of the world we now live in.

 

[trainophile]

Which is why i'm puzzled that the thread has degenerated into advice not to talk to any strangers ever. God knows how people are going to meet in the future, maybe our species is at risk? It's a sad indictment of the world we now live in.

Bumping into someone in a shop, or a bus queue, or a pub, or at work and striking up a conversation, is a bit different from having someone plonk themselves down in the next train seat and starting to talk at you. I do find headphones very useful should the situation arise, but really it's a social no-no to start talking to someone who is pretty much trapped and may be too polite to tell you to **** off.

 

[yorkie]

I don't want to turn this into another DOO debate, but passenger welfare really is a huge part of the job.

What's the operation of the train got to do with it?

On the Strathclye electric trains operated by Scotrail there is a member of staff constantly patrolling most trains (they are not allowed to remain in the back cab).

However on most of the trains I took yesterday and Friday evening (all with Guards) I saw no on-board staff in the passenger areas of the trains.

I also agree that it is important staff are patrolling the trains helping customers but on the vast majority of evening trains in Yorkshire I see no evidence of staff doing this whatsoever. So I guess the train companies disagree with us both and do not see it as important.

Can train companies insist Guards patrol the trains? I guess not as otherwise it would happen, surely?

 

[30907]

Try justifying the “risk” between a black youth sitting next to an older and wealthier white man, and the guard passing the white guy a note. The stats show the older white man is far more likely to be a victim of crime from the younger black man than the other way around. What if the guard’s instincts told him the black guy looked dodgy and might rob the old fella?

I can't quickly find these stats. Link?

 

[jagardner1984]

Isn’t a huge issue we haven’t mentioned here intention ?

The guard’s Actions were correctly passive, in that it didn’t directly intervene or cause a confrontation.

I read it as an act of kindness (and professionalism).

Since there wasn’t an issue, the woman smiled and the guard moved on.

Surely all that’s happened in the news in the last few years would show we could all do well to spend a moment questioning situations around us, and asking, through word or action “are you ok?”

Personally I’d much prefer to go home at night with my act of kindness mocked or rejected, “of course I’m ok”, than to ponder what happened after I did nothing. So long as the intention is clear, do many people really have an issue ?

Whilst gender is the question here, there are a host of situations this could apply to.

 

[goblinuser]

Try justifying the “risk” between a black youth sitting next to an older and wealthier white man, and the guard passing the white guy a note. The stats show the older white man is far more likely to be a victim of crime from the younger black man than the other way around. What if the guard’s instincts told him the black guy looked dodgy and might rob the old fella?

Go on. I dare you. Justify the guard passing the old white guy a note.

The woman clarifies absolutely that the interaction in her case was completely innocent! I’d like to see her do the black guy comparison too and we’ll see if that’s acceptable.

Why is suspecting men of being potential harassers because of their gender acceptable? Why are men letting this happen?

What is wrong with society?

We weren't there so could not see exactly what happened, but as a guard who sees lots of people I think his judgement is quite tuned in to these things.