Man who'd drunk six pints couldn't get the train home

[gordonthemoron]

what I don't understand, is why he got into an argument, why not chance his luck at Central, Moorfields or St James (as he successfully did in the end)?

 

[Llanigraham]

what I don't understand, is why he got into an argument, why not chance his luck at Central, Moorfields or St James (as he successfully did in the end)?

Err! Because he was drunk, and therefore no in full control of his thought processes.

 

[philthetube]

Some trains have been cancelled because of customer behaviour, eg. late brighton services, and others, according to forum posts are a nightmare to travel on and staff try to avoid working them, has this happened on Merseyrail? If not does this mean that they are doing something right?

 

[yorksrob]

Im not based in Chiltern land but again I have to point out that no matter how you try and wriggle out of it your statements on this matter as to why they are barred are false

And I must point out once again that several users of the Merseyrail system on this thread have cited examples of staff barring people from trains on spurious grounds.

 

[Edders23]

I'd much rather the existing offences with regard to poor behaviour when drunk were enforced. A drunk asleep in the corner is no harm to anyone.

they are to themselves you can imbibe so much that you suffer from Alcohol poisoning and awaking them is always difficult train could end up in the depot with passenger still practically comatose in the corner. the best place for someone like that is in a police cell where they can be monitored

 

[DarloRich]

they are to themselves you can imbibe so much that you suffer from Alcohol poisoning and awaking them is always difficult train could end up in the depot with passenger still practically comatose in the corner. the best place for someone like that is in a police cell where they can be monitored

Wow. Clueless. I wonder how I have managed never to he arrested having drunk.

 

[atraindriver]

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[AlastairFraser]

As a Redingensian I definitely have seen drunk people boarding trains from London and getting off perfectly peacefully without any trouble, but there are always exceptions. I was on a Chiltern train coming from Ruislip on my way to Paddington via Marylebone on the 22nd and these idiots going to the Boxing Match boarded drinking,smoking and shouting their heads off at Northolt Park. Luckily they were off at Wembley Stadium but there was a infant trying to sleep and its mother was intimidated by the drunk idiots, they were so close a cigarette would burnt my skin if they were any closer. I reported it at Marylebone and the station staff there were extremely helpful and said that they'd follow it up for me but I would have preferred a guard or other station staff to be present at the station they boarded at to stop them boarding. It was also my first experience of Chiltern in the capital as well,so not a great first impression.

 

[MichaelAMW]

They may however pose a risk when on the platform, or for example if the train needs to be detrained. Hence why staff reserve the right to declare people unfit to travel.

Well. yes, but only if the staff member reasonably believes they aren't in a fit state. That means "open to reason" not "it's my private opinion and I'll overstep the bit of authority I have." There is no proper assessment of any sort being carried out and it is clear, given the reports from around the regions, that these rent-a-thugs (as they have been called in this thread) are just throwing their weight around given any excuse and ultimately putting people at risk, in the sense that someone who is bit worse for wear needs to get home and not be abandoned in the city centre.

 

[atraindriver]

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[Mikey C]

As a Redingensian I definitely have seen drunk people boarding trains from London and getting off perfectly peacefully without any trouble, but there are always exceptions. I was on a Chiltern train coming from Ruislip on my way to Paddington via Marylebone on the 22nd and these idiots going to the Boxing Match boarded drinking,smoking and shouting their heads off at Northolt Park. Luckily they were off at Wembley Stadium but there was a infant trying to sleep and its mother was intimidated by the drunk idiots, they were so close a cigarette would burnt my skin if they were any closer. I reported it at Marylebone and the station staff there were extremely helpful and said that they'd follow it up for me but I would have preferred a guard or other station staff to be present at the station they boarded at to stop them boarding. It was also my first experience of Chiltern in the capital as well,so not a great first impression.

I genuinely don't understand what you think Chiltern should be doing in this situation. They got on at a minor stop that few people usually use, there's no reasonable way Chiltern could be expected to provide enough people at a normally empty station on a Saturday evening to cater for a group of drunk boxing fans.

 

[whhistle]

If she had come across an individual working for a TOC who displayed the attitudes you mention then action through the Equality Commission and/or if necessary the County Court to ensure that the TOC paid for any additional costs she incurred (and probably significant additional compensation) would have been guaranteed.

The difference being, I would expect your ex to have some sort of card that explains the condition.
Many other disabilities do.
However, if the person should not go challenged, how do you stop people who do not look like they can look after themselves becoming a liability on the railway?
You will have to offend/put down one group of people.

 

[coppercapped]

Well. yes, but only if the staff member reasonably believes they aren't in a fit state. That means "open to reason" not "it's my private opinion and I'll overstep the bit of authority I have." There is no proper assessment of any sort being carried out and it is clear, given the reports from around the regions, that these rent-a-thugs (as they have been called in this thread) are just throwing their weight around given any excuse and ultimately putting people at risk, in the sense that someone who is bit worse for wear needs to get home and not be abandoned in the city centre.

People are capable of making choices and one of the consequences of having too much to drink is that people's actions tend not to be predictable. When on railway premises there is possibility that they could put themselves or others in danger.

Of course, if it were me then I would cause no problems at all if I were to be a bit tiddly, I'd just go to sleep in a corner. This is true for all the posters here...

If 'the railway' enforced the existing bye-laws about being intoxicated on railway premises then anybody having some drinks in town would know that the choice he or she has to make is either to stop drinking before the effects are noticeable if they want to use the train to get home or be prepared to spend the night in a gutter.

The railway is NOT a social service for people who cannot control themselves. The railway is responsible for people on its property, not for those outside.

 

[yorksrob]

People are capable of making choices and one of the consequences of having too much to drink is that people's actions tend not to be predictable. When on railway premises there is possibility that they could put themselves or others in danger.

Of course, if it were me then I would cause no problems at all if I were to be a bit tiddly, I'd just go to sleep in a corner. This is true for all the posters here...

If 'the railway' enforced the existing bye-laws about being intoxicated on railway premises then anybody having some drinks in town would know that the choice he or she has to make is either to stop drinking before the effects are noticeable if they want to use the train to get home or be prepared to spend the night in a gutter.

The railway is NOT a social service for people who cannot control themselves. The railway is responsible for people on its property, not for those outside.

It would be progress if the railway saw itself as responsible for actually running a train service these days.

 

[coppercapped]

It would be progress if the railway saw itself as responsible for actually running a train service these days.

Miaow...

 

[sprunt]

There does seem to be a real determination, even desperation, on the part of some here to demonstrate that any attempt to keep drunken people off trains is Always Wrong Regardless.
I find that a bit worrying.

Nobody has suggested that. Several people have said that based on their own experience with/observation of the security staff working for Merseyrail they think there's a fair chance of the complainant in the story having a good case.

 

[MichaelAMW]

Nobody has suggested that. Several people have said that based on their own experience with/observation of the security staff working for Merseyrail they think there's a fair chance of the complainant in the story having a good case.

Indeed, that was my point - the response at Liverpool is different from what is apparently seen elsewhere.

 

[MichaelAMW]

People are capable of making choices and one of the consequences of having too much to drink is that people's actions tend not to be predictable. When on railway premises there is possibility that they could put themselves or others in danger.

I agree. However, the issue here seems to be that it's not about having "too much" to drink, which in effect means looking like you clearly can't travel safely or with regard to the safety of others including staff, but simply having apparently had something to drink.

 

[trainophile]

Given Liverpool’s attraction for hen parties, which I have observed many a time on trains heading in that direction, with multiple bottles of fizz being consumed mid-morning, I wonder whether the same approach is applied to young female travellers who are fairly obviously “merry”.

 

[coppercapped]

I agree. However, the issue here seems to be that it's not about having "too much" to drink, which in effect means looking like you clearly can't travel safely or with regard to the safety of others including staff, but simply having apparently had something to drink.

Yes, I think you are absolutely right. The bye-laws refer to being 'intoxicated' which according to my dictionary means 'to lose control of their faculties or behaviour.'

On the other hand the National Conditions of Travel require that

19.1 You should show consideration for other passengers, so that everyone is able to have an enjoyable travel experience on the National Rail Network. Anti-social and criminal behaviour, in particular, affects other passengers and can prevent them from enjoying their journey.

so, even if people are not falling-over drunk, shouting, loud singing, boisterous behaviour can - and does - upset normal sober passengers.

I see no reason why people in such a state should be allowed to disturb, upset or annoy other passengers. There is no excuse whatsoever and if Merseyrail is coming down hard on behaviour like this it may be the only effective way to dissuade people from drinking too much and then expecting that they should be allowed to travel.

 

[404250]

Haven't read all the posts so apologies if I'm repeating something. IMO it is of absolutely no relevance how much a person has had or if they appear drunk or not. Drunk and disorderly is a crime I believe but just drunk isn't. If the behaviour is upsetting for other passengers then the person should be kicked off the train or not allowed to get on, drunk or sober. Falling asleep at a table is fine.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I genuinely don't understand what you think Chiltern should be doing in this situation. They got on at a minor stop that few people usually use, there's no reasonable way Chiltern could be expected to provide enough people at a normally empty station on a Saturday evening to cater for a group of drunk boxing fans.

I would have just liked to see a member of event staff at the stations between Ruislip and Wembley Stadium just for the night,knowing that, because it's a boxing match, there's quite a high probability that something like what happened. or, if they can't justify a member at each station, a member of staff on the platform at Wembley Stadium station would be fair.

 

[philthetube]

I was on the 20.33 LNER to Leeds last night. We left 15 minutes late. All went well until between Peterborough and Grantham the lights went off, the emergency lighting came on and we coasted to a stop in the middle of nowhere. And there we stayed for a long time. The staff were great - food and drink frequently offered in first class. The manager kept us updated at just the right intervals.

Eventually a Thunderbird was despatched to drag us to Grantham and beyond. At this stage a drunk woman decided to fall over in a vestibule leading to an extended stop in Grantham as paramedics and police attended (both were on hand following the earlier fire). She was checked out and stayed onboard to her destination of Newark where she was met by a police reception. All this no doubt blocked the only available line north.

from another thread but relevant.

 

[185143]

I was on a train home on Friday after more than a few too many. No issue with accessing the train, not even from the gateline staff at Blackpool North (who were actually very pleasant when I my ticket didn't work and I had to ask to be let through!)

Was absolutely no bother to anyone onboard the train. Unfortunately that was because I'd gotten a little too comfy in the 1st class compartment and woke up at Manchester Airport-with no way home! Oops...

 

[Roy Badami]

Drunk and disorderly is a crime I believe but just drunk isn't.
.

Pretty sure being drunk in a public place is technically illegal, if rarely enforced .

 

[js1000]

The Liverpool Echo reports:


There is a poll in the quoted article. At the moment of writing 75% of votes are for "Everyone else is allowed on [ the train ] when drunk so why not him?". Which, BTW, is also my opinion.

Six pints and he couldn't get the train home? Lightweight.

 

[atraindriver]

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[trainophile]

Sorry can’t quote part of a post on my phone, but regarding Merseyrail and Bylaw enforcement, why on earth would anyone object to the one about feet on seats unless they are an inconsiderate moron?

 

[dcbwhaley]

They'll keep an eye of them and intervene if they have to. It is illegal to be drunk in a public place so more than likely they'll arrest them and get the police to pick them up.

Given that it is illegal to be drunk in a public house, how did he manage to consume six pints of beer?

 

[Stigy]

Given that it is illegal to be drunk in a public house, how did he manage to consume six pints of beer?

It’s not illegal to be drunk in public, however it is an offence to be drunk and disorderly. No copper is going to arrest somebody for just being drunk, even if it was illegal, as the custody sergeant wouldn’t authorise their detention unless there’s a necessity for the arrest.

Regarding this whole issue, Merseyrail staff were quite within their rights, and it seems the sensible and safest thing to do is refuse travel if a person is at a staffed station. Wasn’t it a Mersey rail Guard who was prosecuted for a (drunk?) girl falling below a moving train as it departed?

Sometimes it’s not possible to enforce this byelaw, but I won’t let somebody travel if I think they’re not fit to do so. I think common sense needs to be exercised though too, in that it might be safer to carry someone than leave them stranded at an unstaffed station where there’s more danger to them than there is being monitored on the train. If they’re at a busy station though, I’ll kick them out. I’d never just put somebody on a train without making sure the Guard is both aware, and happy to have them on his/her train.