Keolis Amey Wales - Future Rolling Stock

[Gareth Marston]

Why the 3hr threshold?

You were citing your brothers journey which was 3 hour so that was the benchmark i used.

Why should pepole making 2 hour journeys such as Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury suffer reduced quality trains?

Ive traveled many times on Chiltern Class 168's I don't believe I have suffered in the slightest. As I said upthread people complained when the 170's were taken away from the Cambrian in 2001. Its subjective. If 5/6 car formations start turning up at New St instead of 4 cars that can be cut to 2 then I doubt anyone will give a damn about door positions.

In fact the major issues are internal fittment and not too much stock operating west of. Chester along the North Wales Coast. To be honest 3 Keolis tph plus 8 West Coast trains is more than enough we don't want all the non 1st class 3 car sets carting too much fresh air do we?

 

[PHILIPE]

A 150 bound for Aberystwyth/Pwllheli ( ) left Birmingham with ‘Shrewsbury’ on the roller blind as Aberystwyth wasn’t there (the driver scrolled through from ‘Aber’, ‘Abergavenny’ etc.) so I assume it’s been some time since the 150s have been to Aberystwyth. Probably would have got away with using ‘Aber’ though - More people boarding would assume Aberystwyth than the small station on the outskirts of Caerphilly!

Aber was previously Aber Junction and was the junction for the Aber Valley branch which ran through the village of Abertridwr to Senghenydd. The area itself is known as the Aber Valley, and Abertridwr translated is the "Mouth of the Three Waters" where three small rivers joined up and became "Nant yr Aber" which flows through Caerphilly, a stream which then flows into the River Rhymney. When all the tracks at the once busy Aber Junction had gone, leaving just the main Rhymney line, it ceased to be a junction, subsequently becoming known just as Aber.

Please link also to Post #780

 

[PHILIPE]

I know. Tyseley did all the B exams but Machynlleth did most of the A exams. Frequently had to arrange swaps at new Street to get one on or off shed. From memory, nine of the eleven were required each day but you could get away with eight. Needless to say, they were very rare off the Cambrian.

Machynlleth did not really come into it's own as a main Depot until 2007, prior to which they just did fuelling and servicing and minor repairs. When ATW started their franchise in 2003, this batch of 158s were transferred to Canton and worked round with the rest of the fleet. They went off lease and transferred to pastures new in December 2006 when the 11 x 175s which had been leased on a daily basis to FNW worked completely for ATW and taking over the Marches route replacing 158s

 

[anamyd]

Machynlleth did not really come into it's own as a main Depot until 2007, prior to which they just did fuelling and servicing and minor repairs. When ATW started their franchise in 2003, this batch of 158s were transferred to Canton and worked round with the rest of the fleet. They went off lease and transferred to pastures new in December 2006 when the 11 x 175s which had been leased on a daily basis to FNW worked completely for ATW and taking over the Marches route replacing 158s

I understand that 16 158s went off lease when the 175s became fully ATW in December 2006, and that's when the "158-818 to 158-841" fleet was created. I think previously it was 158-817 to 158-856 or something like that. As well as the blue and silver ones with black ARRIVA logo slapped on there were also Central Trains Green ones with black ARRIVA logo slapped on.

Anyway, on-topic anyone...? I take it here people have seen the delivery/test videos on YouTube of the the first of the 195s (basically non-end gangwayed versions of what Wales will get), 230s and the Stadler Flirts for other operators which give an idea of the Wales ones...?

 

[Gareth Marston]

One suspects this wont happen.....at least not in the timeframe he wants.

https://www.russellgeorge.com/news/...t-full-steam-ahead-cambrian-heart-wales-lines

Observation carriages get the full steam ahead on Cambrian & Heart of Wales lines

Tuesday, 2 October, 2018
The Welsh Government’s assertion that it would welcome observation carriages on the Cambrian & Heart of Wales railway lines has been welcomed by Montgomeryshire AM, Russell George.



Questioning the Cabinet Secretary for Transport in the National Assembly (26th September), the Montgomeryshire Assembly Member called for observation carriages to be considered as part of the new rolling stock which will be introduced from 2022.



Mr George said:



“I’m pleased that the Cabinet Secretary was receptive to my suggestion for observation carriages to be included as part of the new rolling stock which will be introduced on the Cambrian and Heart of Wales railway lines.



“Powys and Ceredigion have some of the most magnificent scenery in the world and I would like to see our countryside enjoyed by those who travel through it, in a similar way as those in Canada can do through the Rocky Mountains.



“I’m grateful to the Cabinet Secretary for taking this forward with Transport for Wales and for agreeing with me that observation carriages are an attractive feature of many trains.



“I hope that this suggestion becomes a reality in the not too distant future.”

 

[krus_aragon]

And with through services off the Cambrian Coast, I could see those observation cars being very popular between Smethwick and Birmingham...

In fairness, the Heart of Wales could be a more feasible place to start, as it's earmarked for a fairly dedicated microfleet, and there are turning facilities at Shrewsbury.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I might have missed this but how is the CAF and Stadler stock being financed?
Are they looking for a ROSCO? Is a WG loan funding it? Or is the franchisee financing it direct given the much longer than normal franchise period?
I assume the MK4s, 170s will remain normal ROSCO and 230s one of Vivarail options?

The press details of the CAF and Stadler orders don't mention financing, and are actually still at the "preferred supplier" status.
I *think* the stock is being privately financed via Keolis Amey as a normal franchise would, but can't be sure.
It's quite possible a special vehicle is being created for this, like Abellio's Scotrail 385s (with a 25-year usage guarantee from SG).
If the "Big 3" ROSCOs were involved, I think we would have heard something from them by now.

 

[Envoy]

And with through services off the Cambrian Coast, I could see those observation cars being very popular between Smethwick and Birmingham...

In fairness, the Heart of Wales could be a more feasible place to start, as it's earmarked for a fairly dedicated microfleet, and there are turning facilities at Shrewsbury.

At least the 170’s - that will move from East Anglia to the Heart of Wales Line - have big windows and slim pillars.

 

[craigybagel]

One suspects this wont happen.....at least not in the timeframe he wants.

https://www.russellgeorge.com/news/...t-full-steam-ahead-cambrian-heart-wales-lines

And with through services off the Cambrian Coast, I could see those observation cars being very popular between Smethwick and Birmingham...

In fairness, the Heart of Wales could be a more feasible place to start, as it's earmarked for a fairly dedicated microfleet, and there are turning facilities at Shrewsbury.

To be fair, after the 150s with their massive pillars between windows, and the 153s where the seats are too low, the 170s on the HOWL with their big windows will feel like observation cars in comparison.

But no, this sounds like a typical soundbite from a politician who's never been on a train, never mind understands the logistical issues, and probably more importantly the costs involved.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stadler could certainly have supplied something suitable, but now the order has been placed it's rather too late.

 

[Gareth Marston]

To be fair, after the 150s with their massive pillars between windows, and the 153s where the seats are too low, the 170s on the HOWL with their big windows will feel like observation cars in comparison.

But no, this sounds like a typical soundbite from a politician who's never been on a train, never mind understands the logistical issues, and probably more importantly the costs involved.

170's are definitely a big step up for HOW plus with those 1/3 2/3 doors and vestibules you've got space to cram in the concessionary pass holders.......

 

[Llanigraham]

What river is at the mouth of Aberystwyth? the Ystwyth?
Excuse my poor Welsh/Cornish

Aberystwyth is on the mouth of both the rivers Rheidol and the Ysywyth.

 

[uxm]

EU funding confirmed:

• £21.1million for the Merthyr line for track doubling between Merthyr Tydfil and Pentrebach, and between Merthyr Vale and Quakers Yard. New platforms will be built to accommodate the track doubling, with an improved interchange at Merthyr Tydfil station, new ramped access at Pentrebach and a new platform and footbridge at Quakers Yard.
• £27.4million for the Treherbert line for works along the full length of the line, including track doubling from north of Ynyswen to the south of Treorchy and north of Llwynypia to south of Dinas. The scheme also includes new platforms.
• £23.7million for the Aberdare line for track doubling, new platform construction and other work so the service can increase to four trains per hour along the full length of the line from Abercynon to Aberdare. Track doubling will take place between Aberdare and Cwmbach, Fernhill and Penrhiwceiber, and north of Abercynon. The scheme includes a new platform, new step-free access and new waiting rooms at Aberdare, and an enhanced interchange at Abercynon.
• £19.5million for the Rhymney line for double tracks south of Rhymney, north of Tir Phil and around Bargoed. The funding will also be used for other work for increasing the services to four trains per hour and provide new platforms, including step-free access and a new waiting room at Rhymney.
• £27.3million will also be allocated to the Taff’s Well Depot scheme for land purchase, road build and rail access, providing land for a new high quality depot facility to improve the reliability of the Metro service and allow the maintenance of the new trains.

Source: http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2018-10-04/119m-funding-announced-for-south-wales-metro/

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now remind me, how did Wales vote again?

Best get it in now, you won't get it again...

 

[uxm]

Now remind me, how did Wales vote again?

Best get it in now, you won't get it again...

That money is paid to the EU in 2 days so don't think this is "amazing" we lose more than gain by staying in the EU, and this funding was promised years ago before leaving.

 

[Dai Corner]

Now remind me, how did Wales vote again?

Best get it in now, you won't get it again...

Cardiff, Monmouthshire and The Vale of Glamorgan all voted Remain but theres nothing for them in the above list.

 

[uxm]

Cardiff, Monmouthshire and The Vale of Glamorgan all voted Remain but theres nothing for them in the above list.

The funding is given to the welsh gov, they decide where it goes.

 

[Dai Corner]

The funding is given to the welsh gov, they decide where it goes.

I thought EU funds were granted for specific projects?

 

[uxm]

I thought EU funds were granted for specific projects?

It's for the south wales metro as a whole so It could have been spent on the VOG , Maesteg, Ebbw Vale etc.

 

[uxm]

Here's the new pacer livery :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...17_1914999358808039_2830607009701691392_n.png

 

[Cardiff123]

That money is paid to the EU in 2 days so don't think this is "amazing" we lose more than gain by staying in the EU, and this funding was promised years ago before leaving.

The funding wasn't promised, it's only now that it's been confirmed.
This is obviously not the thread for an EU debate, but anyone who thinks that Wales would still get the same funds from Westminster as it does from EU structural funds is living in the clouds.
If this £119 million had not come from the EU, we would not have got it from Westminster. The UK govts contribution to the Metro was capped at £125 million and no more.

 

[Cardiff123]

I thought EU funds were granted for specific projects?

This funding was specifically for the Valley lines as it has strings attached, including ensuring journey times are reduced, 4tph to the heads of the Valleys and increase in frequency across the 'Core Valley Lines' north of Queen Street as a whole.
And it all has to be spent and the project complete by 2023 at the latest.
We can look forward to plenty of weekend blockades on the Valleys to meet that deadline.

 

[uxm]

This funding was specifically for the Valley lines as it has strings attached, including ensuring journey times are reduced, 4tph to the heads of the Valleys and increase in frequency across the 'Core Valley Lines' north of Queen Street as a whole.
And it all has to be spent and the project complete by 2023 at the latest.
We can look forward to plenty of weekend blockades on the Valleys to meet that deadline.

We'll have lots of busses to do the job while it's blocked.

 

[Dai Corner]

We'll have lots of busses to do the job while it's blocked.

I wonder if they will be branded 'Working for Transport for Wales'?

 

[uxm]

I wonder if they will be branded 'Working for Transport for Wales'?

Transport for Transport for Wales?

 

[Gareth Marston]

The funding is given to the welsh gov, they decide where it goes.

certain areas qualify for more assistance than others depending on indicators such as GDP. Cardiff the Vale and Monmouthshire are deemed signifactly more prosperous and less in need of assistance tha n Say Merthyr.

 

[superalbs]

First pictures of 175010 in the middle of being reliveried available:
https://www.facebook.com/ncrug/photos/a.321312951651479/554039235045515/

 

[craigybagel]

First pictures of 175010 in the middle of being reliveried available:
https://www.facebook.com/ncrug/photos/a.321312951651479/554039235045515/

It's not 010, it's one of the 3 car units (17510x) - not sure which yet though. 010 is out and about today.

 

[mmh]

It's excellent they're focusing on the important issues first. World class stickers, no doubt.

 

[AlexNL]

Promotion and creating brand awareness is important. If the Welsh government and TfW are consistent, this is the last livery the units will ever get. Making sure that a few units are ready in TfW branding on launch day is a good thing, and doesn't cost that much.

Of course it will take more time for real improvements to be delivered, but you have to start somewhere when it comes to brand building.