Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[Starmill]

There are a lot of other things like LED lighting and wifi that the sprinters and 319s don't have yes, so they will presumably need to go back for those at least...

For 158s it's clear they will all need to go back.

 

[Starmill]

Have the lack of available diesel units prevented this process to date as it requires to temporarily take trains out of service to modernise?

Nobody really knows. I have a feeling that Some 319s went for work three times between leaving Thameslink and now (first to have purple seat covers and guards controls fitted, second to have a new toilet and Northern white livery applied and third to have new seat covers). This seems to be the new fad, taking the units away in two or more stages and returning them to passenger service intermediately - SWR are doing it with their 450 fleet.

 

[59CosG95]

Nobody really knows. I have a feeling that Some 319s went for work three times between leaving Thameslink and now (first to have purple seat covers and guards controls fitted, second to have a new toilet and Northern white livery applied and third to have new seat covers). This seems to be the new fad, taking the units away in two or more stages and returning them to passenger service intermediately - SWR are doing it with their 450 fleet.

Your signature seems to embody the nature of EMU refurbishments in the UK at this point...

 

[superalbs]

Yuck, that carpet really looks like clown vomit...

 

[modernrail]

Agreed on the carpet. I am not sure why Northern find it so impossible to match a carpet colour to a seat colour. Somebody may need to go to Specsavers.

Reports on other threads of the flat cloth on the 800's not performing well in terms of stains etc.

As for the 158 refurb, I think SWR have done a much better job - I know which of these seats I would rather sit on for a few hours and the general feel is better for my tastes except maybe a touch dark:

https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1042902194914250752

Maybe that version would have come out cheaper as well with the seat frames being reused, saving money for trains that need much more attention if they are to provide a decent customer experience.

 

[CJ]

A train has made its way from Newton Heath T.M.D. to Crewe C.S. today, anyone know which unit this is?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K91471/2018/09/30/advanced

In other news - 319367 now has the new northern blue seat covers.

 

[Chester1]

Is this true? So the 150s/156s/158s as well as the 319s will all be modernised in the coming years? Have the lack of available diesel units prevented this process to date as it requires to temporarily take trains out of service to modernise?

They've been given a deep clean - but "refurbishment" is pushing it. "As new" modernisation? Definitely not!

Some of the 150s have already been refurbished with new seat padding and covers, PIS etc, they will be a big improvement on pacers as the worst units in Northern's fleet.

 

[175001]

A train has made its way from Newton Heath T.M.D. to Crewe C.S. today, anyone know which unit this is?

150214

 

[superkev]

A train has made its way from Newton Heath T.M.D. to Crewe C.S. today, anyone know which unit this is?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K91471/2018/09/30/advanced

Has anything come the other way.
K

 

[jonesy3001]

So what is the left in the old livery and the transfers to be northernised?

 

[Killingworth]

So what is the left in the old livery and the transfers to be northernised?

Having travelled on 158844 today I can confirm it is very much in need of refurbishment, unmatched sagging seat cushions, torn headrest, filthy carpets and litter stuffed down the sides of seats. Not a good advertisement for Northern on an advertised express service from Sheffield to Leeds. I've been on many smarter Pacers.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So what is the left in the old livery and the transfers to be northernised?

Most of everything, I think... even some of the refreshed units were only partly done.

The process has seemed shambolic with units only partly done, and even the completed job leaves a bit to be desired... but I'm not sure this thread needs every single report about how the unrefurbished units are in a bit of a state. We all know this, and it is a pain, but it is what it is. I'd rather be hearing what everyone thinks of the refurbishments, as that's what the thread is about. It isn't the "Northern's Unrefurbished Units are still Garbage" thread!

 

[yorksrob]

Some of the 150s have already been refurbished with new seat padding and covers, PIS etc, they will be a big improvement on pacers as the worst units in Northern's fleet.

I was sat on one of the high density ones with three plus two airline seating over the Manchester side this weekend. The seats were far too close together, and three plus two seating doesn't work in airline arrangement.

These units would fail to equal the passenger experience of a 2 carriage 144, let alone a three carriage one without a complete reconfiguration of the seating.

 

[68007–Valiant]

This was on a 150/1 on the Hope Valley line when we found how little leg room there is for 3 6 footers facing each other, with a 5 footer in between making it possible.
.View attachment 52846

Its the journeys on trains like these that make me think "Hmm, maybe I'll just stand instead.". I have lengthy legs so it's certainly inconvenient and uncomfortable for me, the person sat opposite me and probably the people sat next to me too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Its the journeys on trains like these that make me think "Hmm, maybe I'll just stand instead.". I have lengthy legs so it's certainly inconvenient and uncomfortable for me, the person sat opposite me and probably the people sat next to me too.

I think there's one bay that's much narrower spaced than the rest, they found that one. Same on 319s and 321s.

 

[greyman42]

Is there any chance that Northern might not get all the 170s as planned from Scotrail, if Scotrail cannot sort out their rolling stock shortages?

 

[superkev]

1. Before I abandoned trains for my reliable an spacious car a few years ago I was of the opinion that whoever the jobsworths were who set northerns and its predecessors seat pitch were either dwarfs or had no legs. The populations supposed to be growing 1inch per generation (25 or se yesrs) with train seating going the opposite way.
2. Different topic but hasn't someone worked out how near to the end of Northerns end of franchise date it will be for all the unit interiors to be fully refreshed. Perhaps the reason for the various poor quality allegations.
K

 

[61653 HTAFC]

1. Before I abandoned trains for my reliable an spacious car a few years ago I was of the opinion that whoever the jobsworths were who set northerns and its predecessors seat pitch were either dwarfs or had no legs. The populations supposed to be growing 1inch per generation (25 or se yesrs) with train seating going the opposite way.
2. Different topic but hasn't someone worked out how near to the end of Northerns end of franchise date it will be for all the unit interiors to be fully refreshed. Perhaps the reason for the various poor quality allegations.
K

Funnily enough, I'm considering following your lead and trading in my MCard and additional outlay on non-local journeys for a cheap and cheerful runabout... but it isn't seat pitch or quality of refurbishment that's the issue, it's the quality of service on both trains and buses round here... and there was me thinking that Arriva being bought by Deutsche Bundesbahn might have slowly improved things over the years!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is there any chance that Northern might not get all the 170s as planned from Scotrail, if Scotrail cannot sort out their rolling stock shortages?

Unlikely, I'd have thought. Cascades may have been delayed but as there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel for Scotrail, the units should get here some time before the next ice-age!

 

[Chester1]

I was sat on one of the high density ones with three plus two airline seating over the Manchester side this weekend. The seats were far too close together, and three plus two seating doesn't work in airline arrangement.

These units would fail to equal the passenger experience of a 2 carriage 144, let alone a three carriage one without a complete reconfiguration of the seating.

As far as I am aware the seats have not been moved or replaced, only the padding and covers. The lack of leg room is a long term problem that will only be resolved in the long term when new stock eventually replaces sprinters. 142s have the same problem.

 

[yorksrob]

As far as I am aware the seats have not been moved or replaced, only the padding and covers. The lack of leg room is a long term problem that will only be resolved in the long term when new stock eventually replaces sprinters. 142s have the same problem.

I'm sure that these seats are closer together than even on most 142's. There's nothing to stop a minor reconfiguration of the seats by taking some out and moving the rest apart, or having more facing sets for example.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm sure that these seats are closer together than even on most 142's. There's nothing to stop a minor reconfiguration of the seats by taking some out and moving the rest apart, or having more facing sets for example.

I think Chester1 just meant that they haven't been moved closer together: they're a bit cramped but they've always been so.

 

[driver_m]

Went on a refurbed 319 today. The seats are absolutely awful. I wouldn't get my dog a bed made out of that material, so whoever thought it was a good idea, obviously hates the public. There is quite a bit of room with the seats being bays, but the floor looks very grubby too. I don't see why you can't have carpets on them TBH, LNWR manage it with simillar commuter services on the 350 sets so why use a light lino? It has to have a much better clean regime if using that colour and product. Ours get commuter hammer in the West Midlands and manage to be kept in good condition, so why can't Northern. It's as if they expect it to be badly treated, so put out poor quality stuff. The seats on the set I was on were grubby in the folds. Very grubby.

 

[yorksrob]

I think Chester1 just meant that they haven't been moved closer together: they're a bit cramped but they've always been so.

True, they've not been touched for a while. I don't think these were the original seats though - they seemed too high backed.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

True, they've not been touched for a while. I don't think these were the original seats though - they seemed too high backed.

Was it one of the ones refurbished back in NWT/FNW days? Those ones are easily identifiable by their large (but not quite large enough for PRM) toilets. I think (but I'm not certain) that the seat positions didn't change for the most part. By the way I'm confused by your earlier reference to "high density" units, as all of Northern's 150s have 3+2 seating and couldn't really be said to be low-density. The only operators that went 2+2 were Wales&West and their successors.

While they're not fantastic, 150s aren't as bad as people make out for legroom. The other week I had one from Nottingham to Wakefield and the airline 3 side wasn't too bad as long as I adopted a good posture. Admittedly I'm not the tallest at 5'8" but I'm all legs and I wasn't uncomfortable really... in fact the 35-year-old seats were better for me than the 158 I'd been expecting!

 

[387star]

I wonder what people from Berlin or Copenhagen (etc) must think when they travel to the north of England and use overcrowded Northern pacer services

 

[Goldfish62]

I wonder what people from Berlin or Copenhagen (etc) must think when they travel to the north of England and use overcrowded Northern pacer services

One of my friends who's from Hamburg and is extensively travelled did indeed experience Pacers in the North a few years ago and her view was that she didn't realise such trains existed outside third world countries.

 

[387star]

One of my friends who's from Hamburg and is extensively travelled did indeed experience Pacers in the North a few years ago and her view was that she didn't realise such trains existed outside third world countries.

Exactly
This country is an embarrassment and now BREXIT

 

[superkev]

I'm sure that these seats are closer together than even on most 142's. There's nothing to stop a minor reconfiguration of the seats by taking some out and moving the rest apart, or having more facing sets for example.

Seeing that Northern seem to do things on the cheap I'm surprised they haven't taken a couple of rows out to make legroom tolerable and save money to boot.
K

 

[yorksrob]

Seeing that Northern seem to do things on the cheap I'm surprised they haven't taken a couple of rows out to make legroom tolerable and save money to boot.
K

It would seem sensible to me.