Carbon Footprint? Is this just another Tax?

[TrainBrain185]

How do you define this new PC term "Carbon Footprint"? Who invented the word? How is it rated or calculated. Or......is it yet another cunning plan to get more tax from your salary??
Yet another PC term for the flock of sheep Joe Public to get conned with?
Should we take notice of these Green Hillbillies to their word, we will be going back to the stone age....

 

[Swift-Deere]

How do you define this new PC term "Carbon Footprint"? Who invented the word? How is it rated or calculated. Or......is it yet another cunning plan to get more tax from your salary??
Yet another PC term for the flock of sheep Joe Public to get conned with?
Should we take notice of these Green Hillbillies to their word, we will be going back to the stone age....

Yes it is another excuse for the government to get tax as well as being another silly term that the liberal hippie green nutters have developed in there great green con job to undermine Capitalism and modern society

dint know if id use the term green hillbillies id say green hippies and hillbilles would be at loggerheads (i.e. hillbillies drive V8 charge pick ups and massive tractors lol)

 

[TrainBrain185]

Yes it is another excuse for the government to get tax as well as being another silly term that the liberal hippie green nutters have developed in there great green con job to undermine Capitalism and modern society

dint know if id use the term green hillbillies id say green hippies and hillbilles would be at loggerheads (i.e. hillbillies drive V8 charge pick ups and massive tractors lol)

He-he, no not actually. Just plucked the term from the top of my head albeit perhaps the wrong one.... Another one I have heard of late is "hippie eco warriors"...aka some Labour and Liberal MP's...

 

[Moodster020]

How do you define this new PC term "Carbon Footprint"? Who invented the word?

Al Gore

is it yet another cunning plan to get more tax from your salary??

Yes,

Yet another PC term for the flock of sheep Joe Public to get conned with?

Yes

Should we take notice of these Green Hillbillies to their word, we will be going back to the stone age....

No


Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHW7KR33IQ&feature=related

Taking note of what is said in particular at 3:30 onwards & at 4:12

 

[BlythPower]

Even if you question the degree to which mankind is affecting global warming, there's no doubt we're f*ck*ng up this planet in a great many ways. We need to be a bit more careful, it's the only one we've got.

Unfortunately, governments (I'm deliberately using the general non-party specific word - this will continue whoever's in power next) have seized on green issues as a means of taxation. Big business has also seized on it as a means of putting prices up (e.g. green energy).

Don't let the tax issue distract from the fact that we do need to clean up our act. It'd be a damn sight better for all of us if governments would use the carrot instead of the stick for this...

 

[gordonthemoron]

wonder when/if the goverment will decide that overpopulation is part of the problem and start taxing large families?

 

[Spaceflower]

Human's will never 'fcuk up the planet'.
We will and already are fcuking up our planets ability to support US though. Whether this be through environmental destruction or overuse of resources is irrelevant, its peopple like the former opn this thread who are either too arrogant or selfish to admit to the unsustainable way modern capitalist society is run. I am however guilty of participating myself. Even though I admit to the problem(s) I'm do lazy and selfish to do anything about it.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

wonder when/if the goverment will decide that overpopulation is part of the problem and start taxing large families?

Hmmm, large families and modern society have never exactly gone hand in hand. One thing Ive tried to get my head round is the Gaia hypothesis, still dont understand it.....

well you decide http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjLC3GjFMv0

 

[BlythPower]

wonder when/if the goverment will decide that overpopulation is part of the problem and start taxing large families?

I like that idea! However, I'd suggest starting with the withdrawal of child benefits for anything over two children. No-one is forced to have large families in this country and there's no reason why the taxpayer should subsidise what is essentially a life-style choice. I don't get free beer and rail tickets for my leisure activities so why should those who insist on excessive procreation be subsidised?

 

[Spaceflower]

Well, in general, those who tend to have large families are a step removed from modern western society imo. I can think of far better measures than robbing the poor to feed the rich mate!

 

[BlythPower]

I don't think folk in the third world are in receipt of UK child benefit. Mind you, these days you never know...

 

[Swift-Deere]

wonder when/if the goverment will decide that overpopulation is part of the problem and start taxing large families?

Thats called Communism

 

[EM2]

Since when has 'carbon footprint' been PC?
It's just a measure of how much carbon your lifestyle choices produce.

 

[Swift-Deere]

Since when has 'carbon footprint' been PC?
It's just a measure of how much carbon your lifestyle choices produce.

Its used as a weapon by the Eco hippie nutters, yes any normal person would just take it as a simple statistic of no relevance or importance at all but the liberal green hippies use it as tool to have a go at the west and its people and say that the carbon is coursing there big global warming con.
Its another example of the Leftest PC brigade trying to stifle our liberties, freedom and rights and to bring down capitalism and democracy!!!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

historically, we're technically at the end of an ice age... it's bound to warm up a bit

 

[gordonthemoron]

Its another example of the Leftest PC brigade trying to stifle our liberties, freedom and rights and to bring down capitalism and democracy!!!

I thought that was what the bankers have been doing?

 

[BlythPower]

Yup. They knacker the global economy, then expect us to bail them out so they can get back to stuffing their pockets with obscene bonuses as quickly as possible. Nice work if you can get it...

 

[EM2]

Its used as a weapon by the Eco hippie nutters, yes any normal person would just take it as a simple statistic of no relevance or importance at all but the liberal green hippies use it as tool to have a go at the west and its people and say that the carbon is coursing there big global warming con.
Its another example of the Leftest PC brigade trying to stifle our liberties, freedom and rights and to bring down capitalism and democracy!!!

So it's not Carbon Footprint itself that's the issue, it's the way it's being used that's the problem.

 

[90019]

historically, we're technically at the end of an ice age... it's bound to warm up a bit

Yes, we're still in one because and ice age is defined as a period when the poles are covered by ice.

The Romans were growing grapes at Hadrian's wall 2000 years ago, I'd like to see them doing that now, without doing things like covering them in winter.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

We are just apes flying through space on a dying rock full of Co2.

 

[gordonthemoron]

We are just apes flying through space on a dying rock full of Co2.

Speak for yourself, Island Monkey.

 

[Spaceflower]

I don't think folk in the third world are in receipt of UK child benefit. Mind you, these days you never know...

Since when did 'a step removed from modern western society' mean 'third world'?
In all countries education has proven to be a better way of controlling family size than taxing the poor. That's like cutting foreign aid to Africa in a bid to reduce numbers I hope you never get into politics.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

We are just apes flying through space on a dying rock full of Co2

.

Venutian?

Most of us here live on Earth mate!

 

[TrainBrain185]

I still do not know how someone is going to measure Co2 that is emitted from various domestic properties and businesses? This whole Carbon Footprint confuses me no end.
Years ago, it was the hole in the ozone layer that was causing global warming. Crazy schemes were introduced such as farmers being ordered to administer anti wind tablets to their cattle and sheep herds to reduce their farting too much methane gas.
Nowadays its gone more technological blaming engine exhaust gases and people leaving electricals on standby etc.
Something new seems to be made up each year that gets blamed for climate change when all said and done is explained that it a natural cycle taking place in the life of planet earth.

 

[Nick W]

The level of ignorance here never ceases to astonish me.

While scientists still have differing opinions on the effects of increased levels of CO2, the fact remains that, by burning fossil fuels, we are increasing the level of carbon dioxide in the air. Perhaps not all the models suggest that the effects will be catastrophic, but to continue to release carbon dioxide at the rate we currently to is tantamount to running across the M1 at peak hour, on the grounds that there is a chance of survival.

Yes, there are multiple causes of Global warming, including depletion of the ozone layer; and yes, methane is by far a more serious greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. In fact, beef steak may be a rare dish in the future. But the fact remains that releasing carbon dioxide from fossil fuels is still a major component of potential global climate catastrophe.

The reason we have child benefit is to reduce the incidence of child poverty, which sadly remains an issue in Britain. The fact that the amount received is so pitiful that it barely covers the cost of a child's nappies, in my opinion, reflects badly on our society.

 

[Spaceflower]

IMO both of the two above posts are spot on, even if they are contradictory. TrainBrain appears to favour the Gaia theory, which has yet to be disproven , whilst Nick is taking the 'scientific' theory.
Given current state of affairs I'm clinging to the Gaia theory with hands over my ears and my eyes tight shut.

 

[Nick W]

IMO both of the two above posts are spot on, even if they are contradictory. TrainBrain appears to favour the Gaia theory, which has yet to be disproven , whilst Nick is taking the 'scientific' theory.
Given current state of affairs I'm clinging to the Gaia theory with hands over my ears and my eyes tight shut.

Not quite sure what you mean, I was merely pointing out that there is no ONE cause for Global Warming, in the same way that people don't all die from the same effects.

The Gaia theory would appear to claim that the Earth is a complicated system with internal negative feedback to ensure that the climate doesn't change no matter what the change in activities are. My freezer also has a negative feedback system, meaning that if I put a jug of boiling hot water in, the freezer's compressor will work harder to ensure that the boiling hot freezes.

Unfortunately if I were to pour molten iron at 2000 degrees centigrade into the freezer, everything would melt before the iron could cool down sufficiently. This is what we are fearing is happening on the Earth - carbon dioxide is being released at a greater rate than it is being absorbed.

Therefore, the Gaia theory might hypothesise that if we take action now, the Earth will recover, it doesn't mean that we can carry on what we are doing now.

 

[thefab444]

Thats called Communism

Since when has "taxing large families" been Communism.

 

[Swift-Deere]

Since when has "taxing large families" been Communism.

Its none of the State's business as to how many children families wish to have, and excessive taxation is a sign of communism

oh and maybe you should look at COMMUNIST China's one child policy, i think that something to do with taxing(or much worse) large families

 

[90019]

oh and maybe you should look at COMMUNIST China's one child policy, i think that something to do with taxing(or much worse) large families

No, it's not.

The one child policy was introduced as a way to try and stop the rapid increase of the population. It has caused it's own problems though, as China will have problems with an ageing population as the children get older and have to support the large proportion of old dependants.

 

[Spaceflower]

Not quite sure what you mean, I was merely pointing out that there is no ONE cause for Global Warming, in the same way that people don't all die from the same effects.

The Gaia theory would appear to claim that the Earth is a complicated system with internal negative feedback to ensure that the climate doesn't change no matter what the change in activities are. My freezer also has a negative feedback system, meaning that if I put a jug of boiling hot water in, the freezer's compressor will work harder to ensure that the boiling hot freezes.

Unfortunately if I were to pour molten iron at 2000 degrees centigrade into the freezer, everything would melt before the iron could cool down sufficiently. This is what we are fearing is happening on the Earth - carbon dioxide is being released at a greater rate than it is being absorbed.

Therefore, the Gaia theory might hypothesise that if we take action now, the Earth will recover, it doesn't mean that we can carry on what we are doing now.

No Nick, both approaches are wracked with uncertainty. Gaia theory isn't as rigid as a freezer, with straight forward and perfectly balanced feedback loops, but is similar in nature, just more complex and one of the feedbacks may be the small task of the removal of the huiman species.

I think the only real difference between the two approaches is that the Gaia theory seems to place emphasis on a greater entity composed of all the Earth's cycles and that humans are just one small part of that and as a result we are not in control of our actions. This is easy to understand if you consider that climate altering technological improvements may have been essewntial to our success.
The scientific theory places humans much in the driving seat and therefore presumes we have the power to alter this entity.
Both appropaches have yet to be proven. In fact both approaches could quite happily live side by side, ......oh wait a moment, they do.

 

[Moodster020]

David Bellamy gives his take on the Carbon tax idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcOgAqxVpb4