EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[yorksrob]

300,000 voted for the DUP, half a million NI voters voted for other parties. I also don't think they expected the DUP to walk out on the power sharing arrangement for Stormont putting Northern Ireland under direct rule from Westminster.

Was it just the DUP who "put NI under direct rule from Westminster" ? From my limited knowledge, wasn't this a result of all parties not being able to agree a power sharing agreement due to the DUP leader not resigning over a scandal involving renewable energy ?

Of course I understand that in a referendum on whether NI citizens would rather a special relationship between the UK or the EU, having the most votes of any party doesn't necessarily mean that a majority would vote their way.

Do we think another party would get more votes though in the event of an election though.

 

[Howardh]

It’s that red line of not having a border which seems to have caused all the problems. Just have the border, and look at what can be done to ease the impact on people / goods as far as possible. I totally reject the idea that there shouldn’t be a border simply for symbolic reasons.

If NI wishes to reconsider its position as part of the U.K. as a result of a border then so be it.

You do realise what you are saying there?
789879 people there wished to leave the EU, and I would suggest most of them if not all wished to remain fully alligned to the UK, the crown, the currency, the lot.
Now you suggest that they should be sacrificed, despite voting for the winning side (you won, remember) and as a result of winning they will (a) end up being dumped in another country and (b) still in the EU which they vored against?
Can't you see the irony that if they knew the concequences of voting leave would be they'd end up Irish and still in the EU, they would probably to a man vote to remain, and that's enough to swing the whole vote to remain??
As a leaver, how would YOU feel if you ended up in another country and still in the EU without movig house, as a sacrifice just to make May's Brexit work?

 

[deltic]

You do realise what you are saying there?
789879 people there wished to leave the EU, and I would suggest most of them if not all wished to remain fully alligned to the UK, the crown, the currency, the lot.
Now you suggest that they should be sacrificed, despite voting for the winning side (you won, remember) and as a result of winning they will (a) end up being dumped in another country and (b) still in the EU which they vored against?
Can't you see the irony that if they knew the concequences of voting leave would be they'd end up Irish and still in the EU, they would probably to a man vote to remain, and that's enough to swing the whole vote to remain??
As a leaver, how would YOU feel if you ended up in another country and still in the EU without movig house, as a sacrifice just to make May's Brexit work?

440,707 voted to remain and 349,442 voted to leave - polling in Northern Ireland now shows a very small gap between those who want to remain in the UK and those who want to join the ROI with Brexit being a key factor in people considering supporting joining the ROI

 

[nidave]

People in NI voted for the DUP. As a resident, do you think they'll vote for someone different next time ?

If they were given a choice to remain in the eu yes. Yes most would. This isn't a party matter. If asked to have a special deal for n. Ireland most of the population would say yes.

Don't forget the dup are only marginally ahead of the other parties and shout the loudest. People are not as secteriean as you are lead to belive by the news. You might want to visit. Great people, friendly and are not stupid. The political parties are stupid but that applies to the rest of the UK as well.

 

[yorksrob]

If they were given a choice to remain in the eu yes. Yes most would. This isn't a party matter. If asked to have a special deal for n. Ireland most of the population would say yes.

Don't forget the dup are only marginally ahead of the other parties and shout the loudest. People are not as secteriean as you are lead to belive by the news. You might want to visit. Great people, friendly and are not stupid. The political parties are stupid but that applies to the rest of the UK as well.

Fair enough. I must admit, I'd expected NI to vote Leave and Wales remain, but I don't live in either of those places

 

[Jonny]

Fair enough. I must admit, I'd expected NI to vote Leave and Wales remain, but I don't live in either of those places

Well, in NI there was a strong correlation between voting to leave in 2016 and voting for the DUP in 2017.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, in NI there was a strong correlation between voting to leave in 2016 and voting for the DUP in 2017.

True. I was basing my assumption on the fact that both the Unionist parties are fairly conservative (and even Sinn Fein have traditionally been quite Eurosceptic - at least in the republic).

I've come to a conclusion that there's a different mindset when you can cross one, or even more international borders without noticing it. I think the fact that From Great Britain you have to get a boat, train, or at the very least, spend half an hour in a tunnel to get into a different country gives us a more insular outlook (I'm aware that young people probably view things differently).

 

[fowler9]

It's not even trans-Atlantic, more like three-quarters Atlantic!! I admit I know little about the western side of the Atlantic, but aren't there many a scheduled flight to the Carribean Islands much further south - using what I would call *ordinary* aircraft? Please educate me!
I have read (maybe incorrectly) that smaller jets - with only 2 engines I think (??) can now cross the Atlantic, so if so then there's opportunity for Easyjet, Ryanair etc if their planes can hold sufficient fuel.
Do we have an air correspondent here who can put me right??

The A-321 Neo long range version can do Trans Atlantic (I'm guessing that one of the new Boeing 737 Max versions possibly can). The thing is I don't think Ryanair or Easyjet aren't buying them. The majority of long haul flights are already made on twin jets, albeit much larger aircraft like the 777, 787, A-330 and A-350. Airlines from the U.S. barely use 4 holers any more. There are budget airlines in the world that do long haul on twin jets such as Jetstar and Norwegian using 787's and A-330's. I don't think the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet are looking at doing that. Even with the newer, smaller twin jets you are pretty much limited to the east coast of the U.S. and the more Northerly part at that.

Back on topic, one thing that has me baffled is that I thought that May was told by EU representatives months ago that the Chequers deal was a none starter and yet when she turned up today and dropped it on the table again she seemed genuinely hurt and annoyed to be told it was a none starter again.

 

[Ianno87]

I’m going to miss food, and fuel, and medicine, and power, and flights, and anything else we currently have.

How is anything going to be better.

"No deal is better than a bad deal". What a total load of B.S. that statement was. It just falsely ingrains in the population's mind that No Deal is somehow a victory.

 

[VauxhallandI]

The A-321 Neo long range version can do Trans Atlantic (I'm guessing that one of the new Boeing 737 Max versions possibly can). The thing is I don't think Ryanair or Easyjet aren't buying them. The majority of long haul flights are already made on twin jets, albeit much larger aircraft like the 777, 787, A-330 and A-350. Airlines from the U.S. barely use 4 holers any more. There are budget airlines in the world that do long haul on twin jets such as Jetstar and Norwegian using 787's and A-330's. I don't think the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet are looking at doing that. Even with the newer, smaller twin jets you are pretty much limited to the east coast of the U.S. and the more Northerly part at that.

Back on topic, one thing that has me baffled is that I thought that May was told by EU representatives months ago that the Chequers deal was a none starter and yet when she turned up today and dropped it on the table again she seemed genuinely hurt and annoyed to be told it was a none starter again.

Taking it back OT, I am going to NY in just under two weeks on an Airbus 318, pretty small.

It's only got 32 seats fitted

 

[Senex]

Back on topic, one thing that has me baffled is that I thought that May was told by EU representatives months ago that the Chequers deal was a none starter and yet when she turned up today and dropped it on the table again she seemed genuinely hurt and annoyed to be told it was a none starter again.

I don't think that is at all surprising. May and her friends, along with the extreme Brexiteers, still seem to think that the UK holds all the cards and that the EU should gratefully receive whatever proposals she puts forward (described as "the deal" by one of her ministers on Radio 4 this morning). I think this is demonstrated by just how taken aback she appeared to be at the EU's strong solid stance yesterday. In the same way, there still seem to be quite a number of the Tory Right who don't quite realise that Ireland is an independent country and not a British colony any more and can't get it into their heads that because Ireland is fully committed to remaining in the EU the EU community will do its very best to look after that country's interests rather than those of the UK in any instance where the two sets of interests clash.

 

[bnm]

Imperialist arrogance still runs deep in the Conservative party and in its supporters.

 

[bramling]

You do realise what you are saying there?
789879 people there wished to leave the EU, and I would suggest most of them if not all wished to remain fully alligned to the UK, the crown, the currency, the lot.
Now you suggest that they should be sacrificed, despite voting for the winning side (you won, remember) and as a result of winning they will (a) end up being dumped in another country and (b) still in the EU which they vored against?
Can't you see the irony that if they knew the concequences of voting leave would be they'd end up Irish and still in the EU, they would probably to a man vote to remain, and that's enough to swing the whole vote to remain??
As a leaver, how would YOU feel if you ended up in another country and still in the EU without movig house, as a sacrifice just to make May's Brexit work?

I'd feel same as I do - namely that ROI and NI are two separate countries and if the circumstances of both now requires a border then so be it. Ultimately it's the EU's single market and its associated freedoms which is causing that need.

 

[fowler9]

Taking it back OT, I am going to NY in just under two weeks on an Airbus 318, pretty small.

It's only got 32 seats fitted

Not quite the same though, that's the first class only flight that uses the old Concorde flight numbers isn't it? Your regular A-318 full of tourists in hard class couldn't do it.

 

[Bromley boy]

It's not even trans-Atlantic, more like three-quarters Atlantic!! I admit I know little about the western side of the Atlantic, but aren't there many a scheduled flight to the Carribean Islands much further south - using what I would call *ordinary* aircraft? Please educate me!
I have read (maybe incorrectly) that smaller jets - with only 2 engines I think (??) can now cross the Atlantic, so if so then there's opportunity for Easyjet, Ryanair etc if their planes can hold sufficient fuel.
Do we have an air correspondent here who can put me right??

I think the LOCO business model tends to favour short haul: an aircraft could make multiple short trips around Europe in the time it would take to fly out and back to Bermuda.

Regardless of the theoretical maximum range it probably wouldn’t be possible to fill one of their aircraft up with enough fuel to reach Bermuda and still carry enough payload to make it commercially viable.

Trips across the Atlantic by twin engined aircraft have been commonplace for years - the 767 is still used by a lot of US airlines, as well as the 777 and how the 787.

With the extensions to ETOPS due to increased engine reliability I believe some twins can even fly trans-Pacific (A350?).

 

[Bromley boy]

Not quite the same though, that's the first class only flight that uses the old Concorde flight numbers isn't it? Your regular A-318 full of tourists in hard class couldn't do it.

I believe that flight also makes a refuelling stop at Shannon(?) on the outbound leg because, even with the reduced seating, the short runway length at LCY prevents enough fuel being carried to get all the way to JFK.

I think the flight back is done in one hit due to the enormously long runways at JFK.

Apologies for going off topic.

 

[AlterEgo]

I’m going to miss food, and fuel, and medicine, and power, and flights, and anything else we currently have.

How is anything going to be better.

When Brexit is over and part of history I’ll miss the hysteria of these times.

Satire is difficult to execute in such self-parodying times.

 

[mmh]

Not quite the same though, that's the first class only flight that uses the old Concorde flight numbers isn't it? Your regular A-318 full of tourists in hard class couldn't do it.

Yup, it's the BA business class only flight from City Airport to New York (with a stop in Ireland to top up fuel and do American immigration there like happened in the 70s)

The flyertalk website is available for anyone wanting to boast about flying in business class.

 

[muddythefish]

"I have nothing to offer except bluster, humiliation, diminishment and pauperization...."

- Theresa May. 21st September 2018

May scraped the populist barrel yet again to cover the holes in her own ability and the Conservative party which has now delivered 2 disastrous and embarrassing prime ministers in a row.

There is little time left and, frankly, there are only two ways to deal with this fiasco:

1. A general election with a party actively advocating another referendum

2. Hard Brexit - be done with it, bite the bullet, write-off a good decade and pray something falls out of the sky (pigs or elephants).

To think we once ruled oceans and were looked upon as a paradigm of calm, order and sensibility. What a shambles

 

[AlterEgo]

The good Friday agreement states there can't be a border in the way your saying. So your willing to destroy the peace process that I and others voted for just so you can leave the EU.

In what way does the GFA state that? It makes no reference at all to the porousness or otherwise of the border, nor how it will be enforced. The GFA is principally a rights-based document and also sets out how the UK, Ireland and Northern Ireland treat each other at a political level.

 

[mmh]

"I have nothing to offer except bluster, humiliation, diminishment and pauperization...."

- Theresa May. 21st September 2018

Unfair. I thought her statement seemed quite measured, especially given the context of it. It's remarkably wrong for the supposed leaders of the EU to be making jokey statements on the Internet. These people are supposed to be serious statesmen.

1. A general election with a party actively advocating another referendum

We've already had that. The LibDems are staunchly pro-EU, yet even given a general election after the referendum nobody voted for them.

 

[Mintona]

When Brexit is over and part of history I’ll miss the hysteria of these times.

Satire is difficult to execute in such self-parodying times.

I hope the rainbows treat you well. As there won’t be anything else available to you.

 

[AM9]

When Brexit is over and part of history I’ll miss the hysteria of these times.

Satire is difficult to execute in such self-parodying times.

It may give us a few years more entertainment yet.

 

[northwichcat]

Was it just the DUP who "put NI under direct rule from Westminster" ? From my limited knowledge, wasn't this a result of all parties not being able to agree a power sharing agreement due to the DUP leader not resigning over a scandal involving renewable energy ?

Of course I understand that in a referendum on whether NI citizens would rather a special relationship between the UK or the EU, having the most votes of any party doesn't necessarily mean that a majority would vote their way.

Do we think another party would get more votes though in the event of an election though.

I strongly got the impression that because the DUP have an arrangement with the Conservatives at Westminster they care a lot less about making power sharing work in Stormont. John Major warned the Conservatives to not come to any special arrangements with the DUP as he'd looked in to it before and decided long term it would do a lot more harm than good.

Could Labour led by Chukka Ummna have won the 2017 election? If that's a possibility then it's also a possibly that Brexit could have been called off with a manifesto pledge possibly being they would only take Britain out of the EU if they could come to an arrangement which makes us better off out than in.

 

[northwichcat]

Unfair. I thought her statement seemed quite measured, especially given the context of it. It's remarkably wrong for the supposed leaders of the EU to be making jokey statements on the Internet. These people are supposed to be serious statesmen.

The same people who have been constantly provoked by the likes of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage over the past couple of years?

We've already had that. The LibDems are staunchly pro-EU, yet even given a general election after the referendum nobody voted for them.

As proven by recent elections people only put the EU top of the agenda in a European parliament election or an EU referendum.

Look at the 2015 election result over 50% voted for a pro-EU party other than the Conservatives (the Tories had a pro-EU manifesto but with a promise of a referendum.) Labour, at that point, said they would not have or support a referendum on EU membership and that if you voted Labour you were voting to stay in the EU. Based on the 2015 election result you would have expected a landslide victory for remain if EU membership was a top issue for how people voted.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Not quite the same though, that's the first class only flight that uses the old Concorde flight numbers isn't it? Your regular A-318 full of tourists in hard class couldn't do it.

Not sure, I think maybe it would be ok as Bromley points out its a fuel load versus runway issue rather than weight.

It's business class rather than first for mmh's benefit and it only cost me £500 return so no need to show anything off on flyertalk or anywhere else thanks very much.

It was mentioned to exaggerate the smallness of the aircraft to cross the Atlantic. I think the 318 is far smaller than the 767,777 or 787.

Back to the friendliness of Brexit...

 

[yorksrob]

I strongly got the impression that because the DUP have an arrangement with the Conservatives at Westminster they care a lot less about making power sharing work in Stormont. John Mayor warned the Conservatives to not come to any special arrangements with the DUP as he'd looked in to it before and decided long term it would do a lot more harm than good.

Could Labour led by Chukka Ummna have won the 2017 election? If that's a possibility then it's also a possibly that Brexit could have been called off with a manifesto pledge possibly being they would only take Britain out of the EU if they could come to an arrangement which makes us better off out than in.

Personally I'm erring on the side of a Norway style arrangement, but I've given up trying to think of a solution to it all.

 

[Ianno87]

When Brexit is over and part of history I’ll miss the hysteria of these times.

Satire is difficult to execute in such self-parodying times.

If we genuinely end up with No Deal, it really will mean no fuel, power, medicine, flights, etc, as, you know, none of them will have a 'Deal'. I wish I were as relaxed as you about it.

 

[The_Train]

I don't think that is at all surprising. May and her friends, along with the extreme Brexiteers, still seem to think that the UK holds all the cards and that the EU should gratefully receive whatever proposals she puts forward (described as "the deal" by one of her ministers on Radio 4 this morning). I think this is demonstrated by just how taken aback she appeared to be at the EU's strong solid stance yesterday.

In the lead up to and in the aftermath of the referendum I'd stated a concern about people believing that we are a bigger nation and more important to others than is actually the truth. The belief that we are GREAT Britain and therefore the EU would bow to our every need and the rest of the world would rush to agree trade deals with us was scary then and is even scarier now (considering this belief remains even though we are seeing the actual results now).

Rule Britannia is now just a song played on the last night of the proms as opposed to a sign of our dominance over any empire. The actual reality of where we stand in the grand scheme of things is there for all to see

 

[birchesgreen]

The same people who have been constantly provoked by the likes of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage over the past couple of years?

Yeah the likes of Farage have insulted EU leaders terribly over the years, May herself has treated the EU with disrespect for ages by ignoring what they have said for the last few years and still ploughing on with her fantasy plan. Her speech yesterday just came across as a pathetic whine.