Landlords, tenants and deposits

[Teflon Lettuce]

is it not 4 months v 6 months for a s.21 notice?

no a s.21 notice gives you 56 days notice to quit... I know I'm on one now

 

[tony_mac]

It's specifically two months - 56 days wouldn't be a valid notice. But you can't be served one within the first 4 months of the tenancy anyway.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It's specifically two months - 56 days wouldn't be a valid notice. But you can't be served one within the first 4 months of the tenancy anyway.

You can't be served once within 6 months of moving in, or while within a minimum period unless there is a specific break period in the tenancy. But you are right that it is 2 months notice.

So that basically means if you move into somewhere that has a 6 month minimum period, you are good for at least 8 months. If you move into somewhere that has a 12 month minimum period, you are good for at least 14 months. If you move into somewhere that has a 12 month minimum period but with a 6 month break clause then you are good for at least 8 months (if the landlord does use the clause).

There are also a few other safeguards mainly to do with safety, improvement notices etc. Also interestingly, and I didn't know these, you also have had to have given the tenants copies off the properties energy certificate, a current gas safety record and the governments how to rent guide.

Obviously if there are issues such as rent not being paid, or damage property etc then section 8 counts instead which can potentially move quicker (though often moves slower if you have especially "problem" tenants).

I'm not really sure how the notice period bit works if you have signed an additional time period contract after the initial minimum term. I believe that the landlord has to honour the length of that contract (obviously being able to take advantage of break clauses if they exist) but not sure about if they can give notice during the contact term for you to have to leave as soon as the contract term ends (they specifically are not allowed to do that for the initial minimum term).

 

[swj99]

I remeber a case many years ago, before the tenancy deposit protection scheme, where someone vacated a property and the managing agent refused to return the deposit. The ex tenant returned to the still empty property, and removed several items which had not been on the inventory. This included an almost new lawnmower, and some expensive kitchen appliances.

 

[bussnapperwm]

I live in a LA rented property with my brothers/mother.

Usually they get any repairs done within a day or two, with most wait being a week (during heavy snow).

Easy to pay as well as I just have to head to the local corner shop that has pay point

 

[SteveP29]

cheers - are there different legal rules on this in Scotland?

I'm not particularly well up on the legal stuff, but the bare minimum I know is that a deposit is supposed to be secured with one of the three deposit schemes. If it isn't, you can ask for it to be done. If they don't or they refuse, you can take them to court for compensation and can be awarded up to three times the value of your deposit.
If the landlord refuses to give back your deposit or just doesn't (when it's not in the deposit scheme), you can also take them to the Sheriff Court to reclaim them, it costs £72 to lodge the papers and like most things legal, you have to indicate why you are taking the action etc. The landlord will always have to pay back what the judge thinks is a fair return, based on the evidence of both parties and will be liable to all costs, plus, the tenant can claim 8% interest on the amount of the deposit.
I don't know if that's what you were needing info about, but it's all I really know about it.

Interesting... I've rented all my life, both social housing and private landlords.. social housing is a nightmare to get any repairs done... the council/ housing associations seem to work on the basis of "you want subsidised rent so put up with the problem"

City of Edinburgh council are complete incompetents, from board level to street sweepers, but they do get repairs done asap. We've never waited more than a week for any repairs we've needed on our council flat.

 

[Butts]

With regard to renting I was shocked at the fees Tenants have to pay in Wales (and England ?) before even setting foot in a property.

Having moved down from Scotland where such fees were abolished years ago it was quite a wake up call.

Prospective Tenants are hit with a whole plethora of charges for referencing, administration, tenancy renewals, inspections that can add up to hundreds of pounds.

As I understand it legislation is afoot to abolish most of these charges in England from next year. Not sure what is happening in Wales or why they did not follow Scotland and banish these heinious fees years ago.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

With regard to renting I was shocked at the fees Tenants have to pay in Wales (and England ?) before even setting foot in a property.

Having moved down from Scotland where such fees were abolished years ago it was quite a wake up call.

Prospective Tenants are hit with a whole plethora of charges for referencing, administration, tenancy renewals, inspections that can add up to hundreds of pounds.

As I understand it legislation is afoot to abolish most of these charges in England from next year. Not sure what is happening in Wales or why they did not follow Scotland and banish these heinious fees years ago.

what amazes me more is how one agency can think that £90 is "reasonable" yet others think it costs £240 to do exactly the same amount of work... then there are those that like to charge you £100 for the "fees" then want money for inventory, money to "prepare" the tenancy agreement sometimes that's half a months rent- seriously does it really cost that much to take a standard tenancy agreement and insert a few names and an address?

I've certainly missed out on some nice properties over the last couple of months because I refuse to pay rip off fees

 

[swj99]

I've certainly missed out on some nice properties over the last couple of months because I refuse to pay rip off fees

That's a good point. Some letting agencies try to justify charging £60 for renewing a tenancy, even though they're effectively being paid twice for doing the same thing. They are being paid by the landlord to manage a property, and they are then obtaining payment from the tenant for simply printing out a few bits of A4 at renewal time, and stapling them together.

 

[richw]

As a landlord and a tenant (the house we own was inherited unsuitable for us, but desirable location so earns more than our rent), our agent we use has in their tenancy agreements carpets and chimneys must be professionally cleaned and invoices supplied at check out. I never withhold deposit unless the carpets are clearly dirty, but if the carpets aren't spotless I could withhold deposit to the value of a professional clean - I have to present the invoice to the DPS in the event of an appeal so I cant cheat the system and clean myself.
Having had a landlord attempt to scam me before, best advise is to take photos of every minor defect on move in, and photograph every inch on moving out. The landlord didn't bank on me appealing apparently, I'm guessing only a small minority appeal - you need to evidence in your appeal the landlord is pulling a fast one.
If the agent authorised the repaint, did you get in writing? My tenants have it in their agreements from the agent that they may paint what they like but it must be returned to a smart appearance in white or magnolia on departure. The house I live in, says I may decorate as I wish and must be repainted white on departure.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

If the agent authorised the repaint, did you get in writing? My tenants have it in their agreements from the agent that they may paint what they like but it must be returned to a smart appearance in white or magnolia on departure. The house I live in, says I may decorate as I wish and must be repainted white on departure.

hmm... all the tenancy agreements I've ever had only state that the property should be left in "good decorative order" which leaves them wide open to interpretation... after all I might like bright purple and lime green on my walls... the job might be of a professional standard so technically is in good decorative order... but of course it would then be virtually unlettable without a repaint!

As it happens I like magnolia and choose to add colour with the furnishings...

 

[tony_mac]

As a landlord and a tenant (the house we own was inherited unsuitable for us, but desirable location so earns more than our rent), our agent we use has in their tenancy agreements carpets and chimneys must be professionally cleaned and invoices supplied at check out.

That's quite likely to be an unfair term.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ploads/attachment_data/file/616956/oft356.pdf

You can't be served once within 6 months of moving in

That's not what the Housing Act says

A notice under subsection (1) or (4) may not be given in relation to an assured shorthold tenancy of a dwelling-house in England—
(a)in the case of a tenancy which is not a replacement tenancy, within the period of four months beginning with the day on which the tenancy began

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/how_to_check_a_section_21_notice_is_valid

 

[richw]

That's quite likely to be an unfair term.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ploads/attachment_data/file/616956/oft356.pdf

Shoving a link to a document over 100 pages without highlighting or quoting (in line with forum rules) what you’re referring to isn’t helpful.

I use an estate agent so I have minimal involvement, that’s there standard tenancy wording, however I woudnt instruct recovery of carpet cleaning cost unless I could evidence dirty carpets. I’d then have to evidence invoices of cleaning and can’t profit from that cleaning, so what’s in it for me other than the inconvenience of going through the scheme unless they actually need doing.
The only part of a deposit I’ve ever withheld was for rubbish clearance. They left the interior lovely, but left 52 black bags of rubbish on the driveway! It became Commercial waste for me to have disposed, but the tenant could have put out to the household refuse collector, or revisited on collection day to put it out. The agent gave them written notice to remove the rubbish or for it to be treated as abandoned and disposed at their cost which they ignored!

 

[Butts]

As a landlord and a tenant (the house we own was inherited unsuitable for us, but desirable location so earns more than our rent), our agent we use has in their tenancy agreements carpets and chimneys must be professionally cleaned and invoices supplied at check out. I never withhold deposit unless the carpets are clearly dirty, but if the carpets aren't spotless I could withhold deposit to the value of a professional clean - I have to present the invoice to the DPS in the event of an appeal so I cant cheat the system and clean myself.
Having had a landlord attempt to scam me before, best advise is to take photos of every minor defect on move in, and photograph every inch on moving out. The landlord didn't bank on me appealing apparently, I'm guessing only a small minority appeal - you need to evidence in your appeal the landlord is pulling a fast one.
If the agent authorised the repaint, did you get in writing? My tenants have it in their agreements from the agent that they may paint what they like but it must be returned to a smart appearance in white or magnolia on departure. The house I live in, says I may decorate as I wish and must be repainted white on departure.

Whats your view on the spurious charges agencies charge prospective tenants in England and Wales that are illegal in Scotland.

I suspect when they are abolished in England your door will be the first port of call as they are going to lose a very lucrative and in many instances unjustified source of income.

 

[WelshBluebird]

That's not what the Housing Act says

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/how_to_check_a_section_21_notice_is_valid

Thats not what the government website says:
https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants/section-21-and-section-8-notices

You cannot use a Section 21 notice if any of the following apply:

• It’s less than 6 months since the tenancy started

Although actually on reading it in more detail, I suspect the website is badly worked and means 4 months plus the 2 months notice.

 

[richw]

Whats your view on the spurious charges agencies charge prospective tenants in England and Wales that are illegal in Scotland.

I suspect when they are abolished in England your door will be the first port of call as they are going to lose a very lucrative and in many instances unjustified source of income.

They charge me a considerable sum by way of a percentage of the monthly rent already. They get a darn sight more out of me than they do the tenant, for simply processing the payment each month, and being a port of call if the tenant has an issue.

 

[tony_mac]

Shoving a link to a document over 100 pages without highlighting or quoting (in line with forum rules) what you’re referring to isn’t helpful.

Fair enough - but you could search for 'cleaning'...

excessive cleaning charges - as a matter of normal practice in short lets, reflecting the common law, tenants are expected to return the property in as good and clean a condition as it was when they received it, with fair wear and tear excepted. We therefore commonly object to terms that could be used to make the tenant pay for the property to be cleaned to a higher standard than it was in at the start of the tenancy, or that require cleaning regardless of whether or not this is necessary for the tenant to comply with their normal obligations with regard to the state of the property

It's not unusual for agents to have terms that are likely to be unfair. Most are sensible enough to not try and strictly enforce them anyway, particularly if they differ from the guidelines that the deposit adjudicators have published.

 

[richw]

Fair enough - but you could search for 'cleaning'...

It's not unusual for agents to have terms that are likely to be unfair. Most are sensible enough to not try and strictly enforce them anyway, particularly if they differ from the guidelines that the deposit adjudicators have published.

I think carpets professionally cleaned wouldn’t be worried about as long as the carpets were returned clean or close to clean. Can hire a rug doctor for £20 from many places now so no excuse for dirty carpets.
The term more allows me to get them professionally cleaned at cost if they’re left filthy. I’ve never been left carpets that didn’t look clean so tenants must in general make sure things are clean

 

[Mojo]

Have you asked for details on the work carried out and invoices associated with them?

I was renting a flat a couple of years ago with a friend from University and a very thorough and detailed inventory and property condition record was provided upon check in. As part of this, we also went around the property and made a number of additions and amendments to the report which filled 6 and a half sides of A4; these were confirmed to have been accepted and noted by the managing agent.

At the date and time agreed to check in; my flatmate arrived at the property and found that it was extremely dirty despite the inventory report noting that a "professional clean" (a term which I subsequently discovered is actually meaningless) had been carried out. There was dust and dirt underneath furniture, on top of the cupboards, old tenants' property in cupboards, limescale stains in the bathrooms and cigarette ends in the rubbish bin. The managing agent claim they called in their cleaners for a second time; but it didn't seem to have been much of a difference and we had to do a clean ourselves.

After check out the inventory was returned with no items of concern but the report noted that it had been "domestically cleaned" (whatever this means). They then informed us that £288.00 of our deposit would be withheld for a "professional clean." When asked for an invoice to substantiate this charge; they supplied one dated before we actually moved into the property! Once this was pointed out, and it was also noted that the property was returned in a better state we found it (the check out inventory did not note any of our amendments made upon check in), the charge was withdrawn and full deposit returned.