Wierd 47+HST combo up the Lickey

[Drsatan]

In August 2002, I stayed at a scout camp which overlooked the Lickey Incline. I remember seeing one evening quite a strange combination going up the incline. It was formed of a 47, an HST power car (both appeared to be running), a rake of Virgin Mk3s, and a Mk2 brake (I think) at the rear of the train, but no rear HST power car.

Can anyone shed more light on this?

 

[delt1c]

I have seen and read of HST's running with only 1 power car, thear power car being replaced by a Brake coach, whilst rare it has been happened in service in the past. Such a combination would require a polot engine before being allowed on the Lickey, I would imagine the 47 would be removed once clear of the incline

 

[Drsatan]

I have seen and read of HST's running with only 1 power car, thear power car being replaced by a Brake coach, whilst rare it has been happened in service in the past. Such a combination would require a polot engine before being allowed on the Lickey, I would imagine the 47 would be removed once clear of the incline

Why would the rear power car be removed though?

 

[25322]

Would it be one of the test cars with an MTU trial pack in?

 

[thefab444]

In 2002?

 

[Ferret]

Different! I remember lots of PC shortages and GNER hire ins but I don't recall solo power cars on service trains! Quality!!!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Such a combination would require a polot engine before being allowed on the Lickey, I would imagine the 47 would be removed once clear of the incline

A HST powercar is pretty damn powerful mind, it would struggle to get movement from a stand up the incline though that's for sure.

 

[Drsatan]

Different! I remember lots of PC shortages and GNER hire ins but I don't recall solo power cars on service trains! Quality!!!

I had no way of verifying whether it was a service train or not. Anyway, I was trying to hide my interest in trains at the time (I was 11 then), so I wouldn't have told anyone else.

 

[Ferret]

Well, I guess it could've been ECS but we may never know! It's a shame you couldn't get a photo though!!!!

 

[25322]

In 2002?

Still think it a test set.

Vermin toyed with idea of using single power cars and a DBSO affair to cut costs on the shorter HST's but I don't know if they ever did any testing.

otherwise it could have been a a VP185 test set
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A HST powercar is pretty damn powerful mind, it would struggle to get movement from a stand up the incline though that's for sure.

On their own or with a train?

 

[MCR247]

I thought VP185s came from FGW?

 

[poshbakerloo]

Imagine if they added in MK2 couches to a HST set...

 

[90019]

Imagine if they added in MK2 couches to a HST set...

The NMT used to have a couple of Mk2s.

 

[Drsatan]

I thought VP185s came from FGW?

No that's MTUs. The VP185s were ordered by GNER & Midland Mainline.

 

[delt1c]

Well, I guess it could've been ECS but we may never know! It's a shame you couldn't get a photo though!!!!

There are several photos in publications of HST's with a single power car. Have a book at home on the HST's and it has a picture of a FGW HST set with a Mk11 Brake on the rear and single power car. If the rear power car fails in extreeme circumstamces it can be run with a single power car, by removing the rear power car it reduces the dead weight for the single remaining power car.
Whilst the HST power cars are powerfull in terms of HP the gearing is for speed and therfore the pulling power of a single power car is less than a simillair powered loco.

 

[Demps]

otherwise it could have been a a VP185 test set

vp185s are from the early 90's, i think they where lat installed in 2002

 

[MCR247]

No that's MTUs. The VP185s were ordered by GNER & Midland Mainline.

Then why are the ones EMT are using from FGW?

 

[Royston Vasey]

Then why are the ones EMT are using from FGW?

Correct, part of the trials way before they ever decided on blanket MTU.

Back on topic, I don't understand if it was a service train why would there would be a "Mk II brake" at the back of such a consist? The Mk IIIs would provide all the brake force you'd need. Plus if you think about it, if there was a Mk II on the back it couldn't couple unless it was a translator vehicle, surely? I can't see a 47 being used on the Incline as a banker, it was 66s by then

So here's my theory:

I reckon it may have been a stock movement (to Laira?) with a translator vehicle on the back for coupling purposes. Wasn't this about the time the HST stock left VXC and FGW got some of it? Along with some ex-MML rakes.

 

[gchst]

I thought VP185s came from FGW?

VP185s are in the EMT hsts

 

[MCR247]

Yes, and they came from FGW

 

[NXEA!]

yes i have seen such a sight myself. i was on the way to woking one time and we paused at brockenhurst and a single xc class 43 after 3 minutes trying to get it going and eventually it left causing a lot of black clag to drift over the station and much to my surprise a mark 2 brake on the rear. this was in the good old days of the valentas of course

 

[37401]

No that's MTUs. The VP185s were ordered by GNER & Midland Mainline.

No VP185`s were for Intercity on the great western, I have rail magazine from 1994 (ish) to prove it, IIRC GNER never used them, after FGW used them they went to MML

 

[royaloak]

43167-43170 were used as test beds for engine trials, first up were Mirrlees Blackstone MB190 engines which were not successful (anybody seen the picture of all 4 lined up at Bristol St Phillips Marsh), the next engine tried was the VP185. These proved much better and Great Western (before First bought them out) started to fit them to a lot of the fleet, 43173 was fitted about 3 weeks before its crash at Ladbroke Grove and it was removed for re-use). 43167 was then transferred to GNER and after awhile had the VP185 replaced with a Valenta to standardise the fleet. Midland Mainline then started to fit the VP185 to their power-cars.
First Great Western then decided to try another engine, the MTU, and fitted them throughout the fleet, the VP185s removed were taken on by East Midland Trains for their fleet and now all their power-cars have the VP185. GNER then decided to fit the MTU to their fleet as well.
43167 has had- Valenta, MB190, VP185, Valenta and MTU engines fitted.