Alot of ideas floating round - How plausable is this one

[Dai.]

People have been posting ideas around, i especially like the idea of the trainspotter hide and the idea of having a kettle.

Moving on,

There have been complaints about trainspotters lurking on stations taking pictures of trains and getting followed by the police or staff giving them a row, if this is such an issue, as there are only few of us spotting nowadays, why don't they do a card system?

IE. You apply for a trainspotting card, pay a small fee for the card to be manufactured and sent out and you just jot down your card number as you sign in, and show it to staff on duty..

OR do it like an ID Card, you have your picture, your name and an ID Number.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[generalvegitable]

or make it free like the bite card

I am in favor of this but it should be called a "rail enthusiast card"

 

[Dai.]

thought I'd just add this onto the thread a draft (very quick one) of what a card may look like.

 

[Nonsense]

People have been posting ideas around, i especially like the idea of the trainspotter hide and the idea of having a kettle.

Moving on,

There have been complaints about trainspotters lurking on stations taking pictures of trains and getting followed by the police or staff giving them a row, if this is such an issue, as there are only few of us spotting nowadays, why don't they do a card system?

IE. You apply for a trainspotting card, pay a small fee for the card to be manufactured and sent out and you just jot down your card number as you sign in, and show it to staff on duty..

OR do it like an ID Card, you have your picture, your name and an ID Number.

Any thoughts on this?

Spotting and photography are both harmless and legal activities. An ID card only serves to legitimise the unlawful harrasment of the innocent by these ignorant bullies.

Carrying a permission card would do nothing to end this harrassment, but it imply it being somehow acceptable, which its not. The only viable solution is disciplinary action and dismissal if appropriate of the thugs involved. Simple as.

First post by the way. Hi

 

[Aictos]

Spotting and photography are both harmless and legal activities. An ID card only serves to legitimise the unlawful harrasment of the innocent by these ignorant bullies.

Carrying a permission card would do nothing to end this harrassment, but it imply it being somehow acceptable, which its not. The only viable solution is disciplinary action and dismissal if appropriate of the thugs involved. Simple as.

First post by the way. Hi

I don't agree with your post in that you state the only way to deal with staff who are just jobsworths is to subject them to disciplinary action and dismissal if appropriate not to mention calling them thugs which is taking things a bit too far...

Have you ever thought sometimes that rail enthusiasts are no better?

What about the countless times certain rail enthusiasts take no notice of any safety notices and trespass onto the railway just to take that perfect photo, shouldn't they be subject to the same treatment that you're recommending that jobsworths on the railway should get?

What about the rail enthusiast who decided they had the right to break a lock off a NR access gate just so he could enjoy his hobby...

I'm just saying some rail enthusiasts are not all whiter then white so don't start going about losing people their jobs.

thought I'd just add this onto the thread a draft (very quick one) of what a card may look like.

I think this would be a very good idea and would replace the old way of issuing platform tickets, I mean come one - it's not exactly that demeaning is it?

Before you enter the platform

At major stations please inform the Duty Station Manager of your presence.
This will ensure that station staff are aware that you are on the station and
they can go about their duties without concern as to your reasons for being
there.

At smaller stations you should ensure that you advise a member of the
station staff of your activities.

You may require a platform ticket to allow access to platforms.

Is it really too much to ask to follow the simplest of guidelines?

 

[ukrob]

So you want to PAY to do an activity which is perfectly legal and free?

Besides, I don't think a 'small' fee would cover admin charges to be honest - these things have a habit of spiralling up.

 

[Dai.]

So you want to PAY to do an activity which is perfectly legal and free?

Besides, I don't think a 'small' fee would cover admin charges to be honest - these things have a habit of spiralling up.

It is perfectly legal and yes it is free at the moment, but in order to avoid all the issues other enthusiasts have come across I'd be willing to spend some money on a card.

I mean, I put expiry date on that card for no reason, the ability of it would be you'd pay it once and not pay again.

Just to have the peace of mind that you won't be hassled by staff or police more than you need to be.


Personally I think it is a good idea and I'd be more than willing to speak to Network Rail or ATOC to get something like this in place at the lowest cost possible.

 

[Phoenix]

I dunno I agree that an ID card is quite plausible because for a meager fee of around 5 pounds you get the following

1.peace of mind
2.preserving a well established hobbie
3.once and for all ending this pointless war on photography.

 

[Spaceflower]

Woud require dedicated staff and resources and legislation to enforce it on a nationwide scale. Not cheap and not neccessarily welcome!. Could be implememted ad-hoc at individual stations I suppose....

 

[Nonsense]

I don't agree with your post in that you state the only way to deal with staff who are just jobsworths is to subject them to disciplinary action and dismissal if appropriate not to mention calling them thugs which is taking things a bit too far...

Have you ever thought sometimes that rail enthusiasts are no better?

What about the countless times certain rail enthusiasts take no notice of any safety notices and trespass onto the railway just to take that perfect photo, shouldn't they be subject to the same treatment that you're recommending that jobsworths on the railway should get?

What about the rail enthusiast who decided they had the right to break a lock off a NR access gate just so he could enjoy his hobby...

I'm just saying some rail enthusiasts are not all whiter then white so don't start going about losing people their jobs.



I think this would be a very good idea and would replace the old way of issuing platform tickets, I mean come one - it's not exactly that demeaning is it?

Before you enter the platform

At major stations please inform the Duty Station Manager of your presence.
This will ensure that station staff are aware that you are on the station and
they can go about their duties without concern as to your reasons for being
there.

At smaller stations you should ensure that you advise a member of the
station staff of your activities.

You may require a platform ticket to allow access to platforms.

Is it really too much to ask to follow the simplest of guidelines?

You miss the point.

Why would rail staff face dismissal for challenging antisocial or illegal activity? And how would an ID card prevent it? Are the criminal element of the spotting society really going to carry a voluntary ID card whlle they willfully break the law?

Yes. Dismissal is the only deterant to the overzellous career losers honing in on the easy target, the quiet guy at the end of some platform in some quiet town minding his own business. The compliant guy that took time to find a form, fill it in, enclose a tenner and send away for a photo permit to do a free and legal thing in a public space.

The hoodies on the opposite platform throwing rocks at the 18:40 through train, will they carry the same ID card? Or are they exempt because they're not taking numbers or pictures?

Demanding an ID card immediately criminalises the carrier because it presumes intent to do wrong. This is not the blue print for a happy society.

 

[bluenoxid]

You have the wrong name because what you have written is not nonsense

 

[yorkie]

The hoodies on the opposite platform throwing rocks at the 18:40 through train, will they carry the same ID card? Or are they exempt because they're not taking numbers or pictures?

Exactly! they would be exempt from the card, as they are not enthusiasts. No-one would dare challenge them, but in order to make statistics look good enthusiasts are questioned about their motives.

Chavs are also exempt from the guidelines, meaning that they do not have to inform the DSM of their presense. Photographers who are not enthusiasts are also exempt from the guidelines. Taken to the extreme, an enthusiast just travelling on trains and not actually photting or taking numbers have to ask the DSM if they can enter the station "Hi mate, I'm just catching the 17:03, is that ok?" Hmm...

I refuse to follow the "guidelines" because they are worded in such a way that assumes that you arrive by means other than rail, are not travelling on the railway and are hanging around at the station for ages. With a very few rare exceptions this just doesn't apply to me. Why should I tell the DSM that I am at a station if I have a ticket? I'll obey the laws but not daft guidelines.

The Right want to take away our freedoms but I will oppose them at every opportunity.

 

[EM2]

I refuse to follow the "guidelines" because they are worded in such a way that assumes that you arrive by means other than rail, are not travelling on the railway and are hanging around at the station for ages. With a very few rare exceptions this just doesn't apply to me. Why should I tell the DSM that I am at a station if I have a ticket? I'll obey the laws but not daft guidelines.

But many enthusiasts that I come across do exactly that, or rather, are not travelling on the railway from our station.
If you're going to take a few quick shots, then fine (unless you're going to start setting up a tripod or firing off your flash). But if you want to spend a decent length of time (say more than half-an-hour), want to use your tripod and want to get to some areas where it would be unusual for a passenger to be (e.g. at the far end of a terminus platform that has a ticket barrier, when there's no train), then surely it makes sense to follow the guidelines?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Chavs are also exempt from the guidelines, meaning that they do not have to inform the DSM of their presense.

Er, no. Anyone who acts dangerously, anti-socially or illegally can be dealt with under railway bye-laws.

 

[43021HST]

Dont take this in offence but I think the idea is rubbish. I just buy a ticket for the next station after the one I,m spotting at, anyway I dont bother spotting anymore. I only take photographs of railtours and preservation railways, most of the normal trains are all the same.

 

[Bighat]

Spotting and photography are both harmless and legal activities. An ID card only serves to legitimise the unlawful harrasment of the innocent by these ignorant bullies.

Carrying a permission card would do nothing to end this harrassment, but it imply it being somehow acceptable, which its not. The only viable solution is disciplinary action and dismissal if appropriate of the thugs involved. Simple as.

First post by the way. Hi

And a very good one too, welcome!

 

[Crossforth]

I don't see what is wrong personally.

Why question one or two people with a camera at the end of a platform?

They say that you should make staff aware yet how come when Tornado came into Leeds on its first run with its name plates, the platforms were packed and noone signed in and yet noone was questioned?

Staff can see exactly what you are doing with a camera or a notebook whether you are on your own or in a packed station. Rules should apply whatever the occasion. :x:x

 

[GB]

Why should I tell the DSM that I am at a station if I have a ticket?

Why shouldn't you?

I'll obey the laws but not daft guidelines.

Thats fine, but dont go complaining when station staff come to see what your upto or ask you to stop what your doing/leave the station.

And what exaclty is so daft about these guidelines?? They are there for your protection just as much as they are for staff.

 

[Nonsense]

You have the wrong name because what you have written is not nonsense

And a very good one too, welcome!

Cheers

But many enthusiasts that I come across do exactly that, or rather, are not travelling on the railway from our station.
If you're going to take a few quick shots, then fine (unless you're going to start setting up a tripod or firing off your flash). But if you want to spend a decent length of time (say more than half-an-hour), want to use your tripod and want to get to some areas where it would be unusual for a passenger to be (e.g. at the far end of a terminus platform that has a ticket barrier, when there's no train), then surely it makes sense to follow the guidelines?

Guidelines:
1. Do not interfere with the operation of the railway and the safety of its staff and users.
2. Enjoy your hobby

Anything else is just fluff. So what if someone wants to set up a tripod for 18 hours at the end of Euston? They are not in the way, they're not a danger to themselves or others,they're probably on CCTV anyway, and the staff have been told to leave them be.

I haven't 'spotted' a train since 1992, the last train I photographed was a tourist steamer in Cuba a few years ago, and the only time I travel by rail is the occasional trip to/from the airport so I'm hardly a victim of these abuses of power. I just find the voluntary abandoning of civil liberties deeply troubling. Its a bit like paying the school bully to not take your lunch money.

A train spotter tax? Gordon doesn't read these pages does he?

 

[25322]

The laws in this country legislate for the masses. However, the interpretation of those laws is what gets people into strive. At present there is nothing stopping you going to a station and taking photos. in the interest of Health and Safety culture we are requseted to register/sign in at certain stations. Whilst most staff will leave you alone there are those see it as their duty to challenge people about their activities. Which is all well and good as long as both sides respond in a reasonable way. However, there are some on both sides who respond inappropriately when challenged leading to conflict

My advice. Be polite, move if asked to move and politely ask if there is anything that you can do to help. Often the gorillas who are trying to enforce whatever they think they are enforcing can not cope when met with politeness and beat a hasty retreat. What they will do if you challenge you will see it as a battle and immediately up the anti.