Change route excess at Paddington

[colinz]

Hello, can I ask a question regarding change of route excess?

I bought a day return ticket from Boundary zone 6 to Reading and was intended to take a GWR train. Because I bought the ticket at Clapham Junction the staff aussmed I’ll take an SWR train and issued a ticket routed via Ascot, which is more expensive than via Slough. However at Paddington when I noticed this, the ticket staff at PAD refused to excess the ticket and insisted me buying a new one and return the old one back at CLJ, claimig the “via Ascot” means TOC specific and he can’t excess TOC specific ticket.

Can anyone tell me, just because only SWR’s services run via Ascot and GWR’s via Slough, does this make those tickets TOC specific?

I’m not a native English speaker and I really hope this is clear.

 

[bb21]

Clue is in the name - TOC specific.

"Via Staines" clearly is not TOC-specific, as Staines is not a TOC.

The ticket should have been valid without an excess anyway, if more expensive.

 

[furlong]

Yes - you should write to GWR as a breach of contract and ask for a full refund for the extra money they made you pay plus appropriate compensation for your effort in dealing with their mistake. You also have the option of reporting the matter to the Department of Transport for investigation as a straightforward breach of their franchise agreement.

 

[furlong]

(To be clear, it's the new ticket you should be returning. You may have a separate claim against SWR if they failed to ascertain your intended route before selling you the ticket, but that could be harder to prove as you didn't check what you had bought.)

 

[district]

Absolute nonsense this should have been excessed without an issue, although as previously mentioned as the via Ascot fare is £1.60 more than the via Slough fare then the ticket would have been valid (either they issue a free excess ticket to change it to via Slough or let you travel on your existing ticket)

 

[colinz]

Thank you all for your supporting replies. In order to avoid further arguments with ticket staffs and possibly the train guard, which I am not good at, I’ve decided to travel to WAT and take an SWR train from there.

The staff was clearly trying to make me believe that “via Ascot” = “SWR Only”, because “only SWR runs via Ascot”, as I double checked with him. I will write to GWR to complain about this.

 

[robbeech]

Unfortunately a minority of staff on the railway are unfamiliar with some of the rules. We do see more examples of this at certain locations than others.

I would be inclined to write to GWR to tell them if the difficulty you had trying to use one if their services with the valid ticket that you held. It’s a shame that you have been forced to extend your journey time in order to get to your destination. This is something you should address in your contact with them.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Thank you all for your supporting replies. In order to avoid further arguments with ticket staffs and possibly the train guard, which I am not good at, I’ve decided to travel to WAT and take an SWR train from there.

The staff was clearly trying to make me believe that “via Ascot” = “SWR Only”, because “only SWR runs via Ascot”, as I double checked with him. I will write to GWR to complain about this.

Asking for what you actually want is a big helpful start point as well if you had made it clear it was via Slough then this probably wouldn't have happened.........

 

[colinz]

Asking for what you actually want is a big helpful start point as well if you had made it clear it was via Slough then this probably wouldn't have happened

Yes indeed it was my fault in the very beginning. It is actually my first to buy a Reading ticket from the counter and I do not realise the two routes have different fares until double-checking my tickets at Paddington.

 

[robbeech]

Asking for what you actually want is a big helpful start point as well if you had made it clear it was via Slough then this probably wouldn't have happened.........

If the OP doesn’t realise that there is another route then they likely wouldn’t think to suggest the ticket they wanted was via Slough. Of course they now know to be more specific when asking or if they are wanting an unfamiliar route they will be sure to ask so it’s good news all around.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Asking for what you actually want is a big helpful start point as well if you had made it clear it was via Slough then this probably wouldn't have happened.........

The booking office staff should definitely volunteer any applicable route restrictions - unless the passenger has indicated (e.g. "I'd like the via Staines one") that they are aware of the route restriction of the one they are getting.

Not telling people about such restrictions is very back-handed, and it is very wrong for anyone to blame the customer for not knowing the railway's arcane rules and policies (which many railway staff get wrong due to the complexity!).

 

[colinz]

I am also a little confused that, if ticketed from London Terminals, the “via Slough” route is absorbed into “any permitted”, and is more expensive than “via Ascot”, whereas when ticketed from Boundary Zone 6, there is no “any permitted” route fare and “via Slough” becomes more expensive than “via Ascot”.

 

[robbeech]

There are many fares that make little sense when it comes to routing. Often they are priced by different tocs so may increase at a different rate hence the overtaking price.

There’s a popular flow I buy where there is a route restricted ticket and an any permitted. The off peak ticket is cheaper by the route restricted. The anytime ticket the route restricted ticket is more expensive. Of course, in reality i can use the any permitted via the route restricted stations but it shows how things can be unnecessarily confusing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are many fares that make little sense when it comes to routing. Often they are priced by different tocs so may increase at a different rate hence the overtaking price.

There’s a popular flow I buy where there is a route restricted ticket and an any permitted. The off peak ticket is cheaper by the route restricted. The anytime ticket the route restricted ticket is more expensive. Of course, in reality i can use the any permitted via the route restricted stations but it shows how things can be unnecessarily confusing.

Unless the routed ticket was to allow travel by a not otherwise Permitted Route that ticket should never be sold.

I do recall a TOC, forget which one, arguing that a higher routed fare meant that fare was removed from Any Permitted some time ago. This of course is not true - though a lower not-otherwise-Permitted routed fare becomes de-facto a Permitted Route because the excess would be zero.

Confused, much?

 

[_toommm_]

One example is an Ashton-U-Lyne to Sheffield season - two tickets:
1) Any Permitted
2) Valid only via Manchester Picc.

Number one is cheaper, even though it's less restrictive - by about £50 a month too! The second is priced by TPE, the first; Northern.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The booking office staff should definitely volunteer any applicable route restrictions - unless the passenger has indicated (e.g. "I'd like the via Staines one") that they are aware of the route restriction of the one they are getting.

Not telling people about such restrictions is very back-handed, and it is very wrong for anyone to blame the customer for not knowing the railway's arcane rules and policies (which many railway staff get wrong due to the complexity!).

Ill bear this in mind next time someone appears at the counter and asks for "two tickets please" (and believe me I see this several times week).

and in this case the Booking Office staff have sold the OP the cheapest ticket via the quickest route with direct trains (though not the cheapest ticket) are we now saying after years of kicking off about the best fare not being offered that we should harrang passengers with details of more expensive / longer options?

 

[colinz]

in this case the Booking Office staff have sold the OP the cheapest ticket via the quickest route on a direct train

Actually in this case, the other fare “via Slough” is cheaper. Meanwhile, travelling from CLJ to PAD, then taking a GWR train to RDG in total takes the same or even shorter time than taking a direct train from CLJ, and from PAD the trains are more frequent. Last, the origin station on the ticket is not the issuing station CLJ, but Boundary zone 6.
However, I believe the ticket staff sold me the “via Ascot” one because normally this route is cheaper from London.

 

[Haywain]

Actually in this case, the other fare “via Slough” is cheaper. Meanwhile, travelling from CLJ to PAD, then taking a GWR train to RDG in total takes the same or even shorter time than taking a direct train from CLJ, and from PAD the trains are more frequent. Last, the origin station on the ticket is not the issuing station CLJ, but Boundary zone 6.

It might be quicker (if you time it right) but most passengers would baulk at the idea of two changes when a direct train is also available, even if it is a bit slower.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It might be quicker (if you time it right) but most passengers would baulk at the idea of two changes when a direct train is also available, even if it is a bit slower.

A voice of experience there - we have a mix of trains straight through to Birmingham International and change at Shrewsbury. No prizes for guessing they nearly all want the direct train. Then you get those that "baulk" about paying £70.40 for an Off Peak Return to Euston via Birmingham you offer them the Super Off Peak Return to Marylebone at £40.50 and say the magic words "change stations in Birmingham" - I can remember once a Women almost fainted.....

You have to weigh up your audience so to speak, there's often not a lot of point in offering alternatives. A lot of people here are irregular travelers, conservative with a small c and want to save money. Most of the AP combinations we sell to London through Euston are more expensive than the fare to Marylebone and people will "dance on the head of a pin" to save £5.00 on the off peak return price to Euston using Virgin rather than go via the cheaper Chiltern or even West Midlands Trains trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though surely it's still worth asking "do you have a preference which way you go"? Which will probably be met with "whatever's faster" or "whatever's cheaper" in most cases?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Though surely it's still worth asking "do you have a preference which way you go"? Which will probably be met with "whatever's faster" or "whatever's cheaper" in most cases?

This comes with its own pitfalls, Which Terminus in London has elected repays ranging from "the big one", "Piccadilly" to "Big Ben". If you come in in advance in between trains then yes I can give time and explain options.to those unfamiliar, however rock up in a queue with barely 2 minutes to the trains due and people behind you......bear in mind the next train is at best another hour and sometimes two here.

 

[robbeech]

It’s clear the approach and attitude from ticket office staff needs to be tailored to the customers based on where you are in the uk.

Customers at a fairly small station in the north or west etc are more likely to say ‘the big one’ if you ask what London terminal they want to go to. Customers that live in London are less likely to have this issue when buying a ticket to outside London.

I agree that these questions should always be asked but I do understand why it can be difficult. Especially when it’s busy.