Derby Resignalling - 22 July - 7 October 2018

[louis97]

The platform will be its normal planned platfrom for before the remodelling. All the London trains have been useing platfrom 7 since the 22nd July.

Where did you see this speedboard? The platform s a are definitely 40 on 1 and 2 and 30 on 3 to 6.

I think there was one or two a day in the clay cross direction in the morning and evening to and from sheffield.

Platforms 3 and 4 are 25mph, only platforms 5 and 6 are 30mph

 

[Senex]

Platforms 3 and 4 are 25mph, only platforms 5 and 6 are 30mph

Doesn't that mean they'll need approach control on the signals for a turnout from 40, because the differential is more than 10 mph? Why not 40 to/x everything at the north end and to/x the Birmingham line at the south (the 30 on 5 and 6 at the south being very obviously needed on account of the curvature)? There seems to be plenty of space to play with.

 

[Tomnick]

Doesn't that mean they'll need approach control on the signals for a turnout from 40, because the differential is more than 10 mph? Why not 40 to/x everything at the north end and to/x the Birmingham line at the south (the 30 on 5 and 6 at the south being very obviously needed on account of the curvature)? There seems to be plenty of space to play with.

The nearest connections between 1/2 and 3/4 will be much further out (LNW Jn and St Marys), where the speeds will be higher for both routes but within the 10mph differential, so there shouldn’t be any approach control on the fastest route into any empty platform.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

Doesn't that mean they'll need approach control on the signals for a turnout from 40, because the differential is more than 10 mph? Why not 40 to/x everything at the north end and to/x the Birmingham line at the south (the 30 on 5 and 6 at the south being very obviously needed on account of the curvature)? There seems to be plenty of space to play with.

There is limited space to play with - The 6 platforms narrow to four tracks over Derwent viaduct (The 5th track being for Chaddesden sidings) within only about 150m.

Platforms 5 and 6 are 40mph from their northern ends heading northwards.

I'm not sure whether platforms 3 and 4 will see much northbound traffic so there would be limited value in making the switches&crossings 40mph.

 

[The_Engineer]

I'm not sure whether platforms 3 and 4 will see much northbound traffic so there would be limited value in making the switches & crossings 40mph.

Platforms 3&4 should see the Matlocks going north, Nottingham, Birmingham and Crewe trains to the south end. 1&2 become cross country trains to from North and Birmingham, 5&6 for London - Sheffields.

 

[edwin_m]

Platforms 3&4 should see the Matlocks going north, Nottingham, Birmingham and Crewe trains to the south end. 1&2 become cross country trains to from North and Birmingham, 5&6 for London - Sheffields.

The Matlocks are now through to/from Nottingham, so I'd expect them to be on 5 and 6. The Modern Railways article a couple of months ago agrees.

 

[43055]

Platforms 3 and 4 are 25mph, only platforms 5 and 6 are 30mph

So it is but only between the points at each end of the platform.
Not a great image but this is the south end of the station this morning taken from London Road Bridge.

 

[martinr1]

The scene on Friday 31st August:-

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Leaving platform 7 for London on Sunday, 26th August 2018; note some of the speed restrictions discussed herein can be seen.

 

[Kettledrum]

I can't quite believe the email I have just received from East Midlands Trains about the disruption telling people to use Cross country trains from Derby-Chesterfield-Sheffield as East Midlands trains will not be running. Since the Cross Country trains are shorter and cram- packed anyway, this is lousy for passengers. I can't imagine that the Cross Country trains will be lengthened to cope with the additional temporary influx of passengers. Couldn't East Midlands trains run shuttle services as well?

See highlighted in bold below:

"From Monday 3rd September

Nottingham to Derby Services
East Midlands Trains and CrossCountry services between Derby and Nottingham will run as normal.

Derby to Chesterfield and Sheffield Services
CrossCountry services will run between Sheffield/Chesterfield and Derby. Tickets purchased from East Midlands Trains are valid on CrossCountry Services. Therefore, there will be no bus replacement services between Chesterfield and Derby.

Derby to Crewe services
East Midlands Trains services between Derby and Crewe will run as normal.

Derby to Matlock services
Services between Derby and Matlock will continue to be served by rail replacement bus services.

Derby to London services
East Midlands Trains will run one train per hour in both directions. These services will start and finish at Derby and not continue to Sheffield and Chesterfield. For connections to Sheffield and Chesterfield, please use CrossCountry service"

 

[38Cto15E]

grumpyoldman
Thanks for the video, I loved the track trolley with the umbrella.

 

[edwin_m]

I can't quite believe the email I have just received from East Midlands Trains about the disruption telling people to use Cross country trains from Derby-Chesterfield-Sheffield as East Midlands trains will not be running. Since the Cross Country trains are shorter and cram- packed anyway, this is lousy for passengers. I can't imagine that the Cross Country trains will be lengthened to cope with the additional temporary influx of passengers. Couldn't East Midlands trains run shuttle services as well?

The fast London-Sheffield is still running (missing Derby via the Erewash Valley) so it's only passengers between Long Eaton or Derby and Chesterfield or Sheffield who would have to use XC. Not sure how much of the Derby layout is commissioned so it might not be possible to terminate from the north.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

Not sure how much of the Derby layout is commissioned so it might not be possible to terminate from the north.

Come Monday the southern (Birmingham) and South eastern approaches (Spondon/LongEaton) will be commissioned, but the north won't be til the end of the partial closure (October 8th)

 

[grumpyoldman01]

I loved the track trolley with the umbrella.

It was raining very heavily at the time!

I wonder if one of the local tv news programmes will show a film of a train being flagged away from platform 7, claiming that is all that you can get nowadays for GBP200m?

Lot of testing taking place on Saturday afternoon; moreover, platform 7 road is no longer connected at the north end - the train I was on last Sunday had started from Leeds and used it.

When trains were using the goods lines north of the station, does anyone know if they "disappeared" and became invisible to signalers/etc? The 12.09 to London last Sunday was running a bit late, and the same degree of lateness was shown on both the platform indicators and on the NRES website; then both changed and just showed "Delayed", and within a short period of time there was the single blast of a horn and the HST appeared (from Leeds via Ambergate). The period when "Delayed" was shown would be, I guess, roughly the same amount of time as the train would have required to traverse the goods lines, hence the question.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Come Monday the southern (Birmingham) and South eastern approaches (Spondon/LongEaton) will be commissioned, but the north won't be til the end of the partial closure (October 8th)

There was a lot of work taking place on Saturday afternoon (1st September) at the north end, and (by observation from the station's platforms) it looked as if the work area stretched as far as Eastgate/Nottingham Road bridges; the signals at the platform ends were being prepared for use (bags/X symbols removed, etc) and guys with walky-talkies were communicating instructions and many signals were illuminated and having their aspects changed between red/amber/double-amber/green.

Therefore, when you say the north won't be commissioned until the end of the partial closure, does the non-commissioned area include the northern platform ends, or does the commissioned area extend some meters northwards so that Chaddesden Sidings can be accessed from all platforms, please?

 

[civ-eng-jim]

Therefore, when you say the north won't be commissioned until the end of the partial closure, does the non-commissioned area include the northern platform ends, or does the commissioned area extend some meters northwards so that Chaddesden Sidings can be accessed from all platforms, please?

Ah maybe - Stage 5 of 6 of the trackwork goes up to Nottingham road and also round Chaddesden curve. So while it may be commissioned, I can't see anything that will head north (and a quick glance at timetable suggest not) but Chad sidings may be able to handle traffic. North end of the platforms could be used to reverse trains coming from depot perhaps.

I saw the new gantry north of Nottingham road only go up on Thursday.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Ah maybe - Stage 5 of 6 of the trackwork goes up to Nottingham road and also round Chaddesden curve. So while it may be commissioned, I can't see anything that will head north (and a quick glance at timetable suggest not) but Chad sidings may be able to handle traffic. North end of the platforms could be used to reverse trains coming from depot perhaps.

I saw the new gantry north of Nottingham road only go up on Thursday.

Thanks for that clarification; that makes sense.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

I wonder if one of the local tv news programmes will show a film of a train being flagged away from platform 7, claiming that is all that you can get nowadays for GBP200m?

It wouldn't surprise me...I see a lot of news clips which only focus on the one minute time saving the project will achieve, which while is a bonus is not the main purpose(s) of the scheme.

 

[louis97]

When trains were using the goods lines north of the station, does anyone know if they "disappeared" and became invisible to signalers/etc? The 12.09 to London last Sunday was running a bit late, and the same degree of lateness was shown on both the platform indicators and on the NRES website; then both changed and just showed "Delayed", and within a short period of time there was the single blast of a horn and the HST appeared (from Leeds via Ambergate). The period when "Delayed" was shown would be, I guess, roughly the same amount of time as the train would have required to traverse the goods lines, hence the question.

"Delayed" appears when an expected report has not been provided for more than 3 minutes. This does not necessarily mean the train is stationary. Platform 7 under Derby PSB was on the Pilot Line and the signals associated with this don't have Train Describer and therefore the train did "disappear" in the eye of Darwin. In the eyes of the signaller although he won't have a headcode associated with the train he would still be able to see the presence of the train using the track circuit occupation. This means the expected reports for arriving/departure Derby won't have happened. For example during the works once a train had departed Derby towards Spondon the NRES and information screens would report the service as delayed from 3 minutes after booked departure time until it received a report of the train at Spondon.

In additional to the above at some point before last Sunday the output from the Train Describer at Derby was disconnected from the outside world and this may also have had an impact on the above as the expected report at Ambergate Junction may not have been received. However there is Train Describer berths on the goods lines so no reason for the train to disappear until it was approaching Platform 7 as described above.

 

[43055]

Ah maybe - Stage 5 of 6 of the trackwork goes up to Nottingham road and also round Chaddesden curve. So while it may be commissioned, I can't see anything that will head north (and a quick glance at timetable suggest not) but Chad sidings may be able to handle traffic. North end of the platforms could be used to reverse trains coming from depot perhaps.

I saw the new gantry north of Nottingham road only go up on Thursday.

The protecting signals are at the north end of each platform from Monday.

Today will be Derby PSB's last day before moving rover to the EMCC for tomorrow morning.

 

[takno]

The protecting signals are at the north end of each platform from Monday.

Today will be Derby PSB's last day before moving rover to the EMCC for tomorrow morning.

Looks like there's a fairly subtle 1969-2018 in the loop at Sunnyhill: https://traksy.uk/live/M+10+PEARTRE+-12
There might have been a bit more towards Burton, but that's all live on the new workstation already

 

[Tomnick]

Derby PSB closed last night (Saturday), didn't it?

 

[rower40]

It runs only to Willington.

I used the Willington replacement buses frequently during the last 6 weeks. Being the only passenger on the bus was the norm. The 0725 in, and 1710 return, usually had one other passenger. The driver of the 0825 (no, he wasn't called Norm as far as I know) confirmed on Friday, that, during the entire 6 weeks, I'd been his only passenger.
Given the chauffeur-service, I'm not certain I want to go back to using a train for my commute...

 

[Mugby]

Will the Chaddesden Curve have it's own independent line over the river bridge or will it be necessary to use running lines for stock movements to and from Etches Park Depot?

 

[louis97]

Derby PSB closed last night (Saturday), didn't it?

Yes, closed Saturday night.

Will the Chaddesden Curve have it's own independent line over the river bridge or will it be necessary to use running lines for stock movements to and from Etches Park Depot?

Yes, the pilot line continues over the river bridge and then into Chad Curve.

 

[satisnek]

Yes, closed Saturday night.

So that's all three gone now. It's easy to forget nowadays that the power boxes at Saltley, Derby and Trent represented some serious investment by BR, controlling as they did all the major non-electrified routes in most of the Midlands using state-of-the-art data communications technology. But that was 50 years ago and nothing lasts forever...

I was fortunate in attending an organised visit to Saltley PSB in 1990. My abiding memory is of the heat coming off the panel - the hundreds of incandescent bulbs plus the little CRT displays for the train reporting numbers made the thing amazingly toasty! I believe that all of this was replaced by LEDs in later years so it would have run much cooler?

 

[grumpyoldman01]

So that's all three gone now. It's easy to forget nowadays that the power boxes at Saltley, Derby and Trent represented some serious investment by BR, controlling as they did all the major non-electrified routes in most of the Midlands using state-of-the-art data communications technology. But that was 50 years ago and nothing lasts forever...

Weren't Gloucester and Bristol PSBs at about the same time?

With Birmingham New Street being a couple of years before, MAS was then from near Chesterfield (Hasland?) to somewhere west of Bristol; Derby was by Westinghouse, Saltley and Trent by AEI Railway Signals, and Gloucester by the Western Region itself using bits mainly from Reading Signal Works and ML Engineering, as I recall. Moreover, the interior of the Derby PSB was often used by Westinghouse in adverts.

 

[Mugby]

The old PSBs may be de-commissioned but am I correct in thinking they will always be there because of all the vital switchgear, relays etc. which they contain?

 

[Tomnick]

I’m not sure there’ll be much essential stuff left in (or under) Derby PSB because the area’s been completely resignalled. Leicester, on the other hand, was only recontrolled, so the EMCC controls the existing interlocking under the old box.

 

[LowLevel]

I’m not sure there’ll be much essential stuff left in (or under) Derby PSB because the area’s been completely resignalled. Leicester, on the other hand, was only recontrolled, so the EMCC controls the existing interlocking under the old box.

Leicester was also relocked in 2013 so whether any of the old relay interlocking at the powerbox is still in use I don't know. I remember being on the station when it was closed for the work to take place and watching the signals merrily scrolling through their aspects