Changing off-peak tickets to peak tickets

[Eric]

Does anyone know why this particular procedure is so painful and time consuming for conductors and station staff?

Yesterday me and the my wife traveled with our railcards and missed the last off-peak train, so had to get the first peak train.

The difference in price was 70p each, which I agree is a reasonable increase to travel after 4.00pm in the school/working peak hours.

To quote the conductor on our train “this is so ridiculously time consuming over 70p”

The woman at the ticket office window didn’t want to do it when we arrived, so she got one of the men on the gate to opened the gates and let us through, telling us to change them on the train.

What’s so difficult about these type of tickets?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nothing difficult, just lazy staff (AKA yet more ticket office staff trying to demonstrate why they should be replaced with TVMs and online sales). I've done it at Euston and Edinburgh Waverley without trouble, the latter for about 12 people at once!

 

[_toommm_]

It's not hard at all really - input the number of the ticket you currently hold plus the price and origin/destination, the new ticket you would like, and the system works out the difference. From there, it's like any other ticket purchase - cash/card etc., hand tickets over, job done.

It may be a fear of doing it incorrectly, it may be Iack of knowledge, it may be misinformation from higher powers, but it does seem a case that excesses can be elusive.

Particularly at Sheffield.

 

[bb21]

I think it is a bit rash to conclude it is lazy staff without more details.

Some systems don't exactly make it easy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it is a bit rash to conclude it is lazy staff without more details.

Some systems don't exactly make it easy.

If a member of staff will not do something that is clearly their job and they have not been told not to do it, they are being lazy and not doing their job properly.

I fail to see how it can be otherwise. If it is their job to do it (which simple ticket type excesses are), they need to do it. Simple as.

 

[bb21]

Far, far too black and white.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Far, far too black and white.

I don't agree.

Either it is their job to do it and the TIS will do it, or it is not their job to do it and/or the TIS won't.

How long it takes and how many books you have to get out to find out is of no relevance.

 

[Esker-pades]

My experience in buying excess tickets (which is effectively what was trying to be puchased) was good, bar my own spiralling anxiety etc. The guy at the ticket office (this is Kings Cross), just printed off new ones, charged me the extra 5p (I had bought a single instead of a return) and I was gone within 2 minutes of arriving at his desk. Possibly because there was a massive queue.

This experience specifically, could the lack of desire at the ticket office to not issue the excess tickets have meant that the OP could have been charged the full fare by the guard on-board? Clearly the OP got an understanding guard, but what if the situation had been one who enforced a penalty fare or full-price tickets? Given the existance of barriers, I'm assuming that this was a penalty fare station.

 

[185143]

My experience in buying excess tickets (which is effectively what was trying to be puchased) was good, bar my own spiralling anxiety etc. The guy at the ticket office (this is Kings Cross), just printed off new ones, charged me the extra 5p (I had bought a single instead of a return) and I was gone within 2 minutes of arriving at his desk. Possibly because there was a massive queue.

This experience specifically, could the lack of desire at the ticket office to not issue the excess tickets have meant that the OP could have been charged the full fare by the guard on-board? Clearly the OP got an understanding guard, but what if the situation had been one who enforced a penalty fare or full-price tickets? Given the existance of barriers, I'm assuming that this was a penalty fare station.

I got a zero fare excess at Stafford last year, which was my own fault for buying the ticket to the wrong station.

Was a simple case of 'Hi mate, bought this at Runcorn (to Brighton) by mistake-I actually want to go to Hove. Would you be able to change it please?'

'Certainly Sir. Can I have the ticket please?'

Taps screen a few times. Printer springs into life.

'There you are, have a nice day!'

Very positive experience.

 

[Eric]

My experience in buying excess tickets (which is effectively what was trying to be puchased) was good, bar my own spiralling anxiety etc. The guy at the ticket office (this is Kings Cross), just printed off new ones, charged me the extra 5p (I had bought a single instead of a return) and I was gone within 2 minutes of arriving at his desk. Possibly because there was a massive queue.

This experience specifically, could the lack of desire at the ticket office to not issue the excess tickets have meant that the OP could have been charged the full fare by the guard on-board? Clearly the OP got an understanding guard, but what if the situation had been one who enforced a penalty fare or full-price tickets? Given the existance of barriers, I'm assuming that this was a penalty fare station.

It was Skipton. The barriers are next to the ticket office.

I had no complaints waiting for the ticket office lady to excess me and my wife. Our train wasn’t for another 18 minutes.

 

[Esker-pades]

It was Skipton. The barriers are next to the ticket office.

I had no complaints waiting for the ticket office lady to excess me and my wife. Our train wasn’t for another 18 minutes.

I understand entirely. The ticket office is at fault for not wanting to sell you the excess. I'm just wondering that, had you got a less than understanding guard, could it have become expensive?

 

[_toommm_]

My experience in buying excess tickets (which is effectively what was trying to be puchased) was good, bar my own spiralling anxiety etc. The guy at the ticket office (this is Kings Cross), just printed off new ones, charged me the extra 5p (I had bought a single instead of a return) and I was gone within 2 minutes of arriving at his desk. Possibly because there was a massive queue.

This experience specifically, could the lack of desire at the ticket office to not issue the excess tickets have meant that the OP could have been charged the full fare by the guard on-board? Clearly the OP got an understanding guard, but what if the situation had been one who enforced a penalty fare or full-price tickets? Given the existance of barriers, I'm assuming that this was a penalty fare station.

I guess it's another case of 'The person at the barrier told me it's ok'. S9me train staff will give you the benefit of the doubt, some will penalty fare you/make you buy a full price ticket. Until the day when there's continuity across all TOCs, or the day when it's explicitly clear what can and can't be done, when and where, cases like this will prop up.

As a note to the OP, it might be worth contacting Northern, as the risk of a penalty fare was quite real. Perhaps mention a training issue, or the general lack of enthusiasm to do so, and ask for the clear cut on whether what you wanted (in their eyes) is allowed or not.

 

[stut]

Nothing difficult, just lazy staff (AKA yet more ticket office staff trying to demonstrate why they should be replaced with TVMs and online sales). I've done it at Euston and Edinburgh Waverley without trouble, the latter for about 12 people at once!

Out of interest, how do you get an excess fare from a TVM?

 

[Hadders]

Out of interest, how do you get an excess fare from a TVM?

You can't. I agree with @Bletchleyite - if ticket offices are to remain a long term feature of the network then they need to provide a top notch service. At many locations this happens but there is a significant minority where this doesn't happen which ultimately assists their decline.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

This experience specifically, could the lack of desire at the ticket office to not issue the excess tickets have meant that the OP could have been charged the full fare by the guard on-board? Clearly the OP got an understanding guard, but what if the situation had been one who enforced a penalty fare or full-price tickets? Given the existance of barriers, I'm assuming that this was a penalty fare station.

I understand entirely. The ticket office is at fault for not wanting to sell you the excess. I'm just wondering that, had you got a less than understanding guard, could it have become expensive?

I guess it's another case of 'The person at the barrier told me it's ok'. S9me train staff will give you the benefit of the doubt, some will penalty fare you/make you buy a full price ticket. Until the day when there's continuity across all TOCs, or the day when it's explicitly clear what can and can't be done, when and where, cases like this will prop up.

As a note to the OP, it might be worth contacting Northern, as the risk of a penalty fare was quite real. Perhaps mention a training issue, or the general lack of enthusiasm to do so, and ask for the clear cut on whether what you wanted (in their eyes) is allowed or not.

If it is a question of Off-Peak to Peak, the only reason I would ever do this before boarding is if there are barriers and they won't let you through otherwise. I'm not going to waste my time queuing for ages for an excess at the ticket office who probably will either tell me they "can't do it", "do it on the train" etc. - when it can be done onboard without penalty.

There is never a question of Penalty Fares or having to pay the cost of an undiscounted SDS/SOS if you are merely travelling at a time where your (Super) Off-Peak ticket isn't valid. It's always just an excess for the difference - regardless of if it's done at the ticket office or onboard the train.

In any case, as I have previously said on other occasions, several TOCs' Penalty Fares Schemes, including Northern's, are woeful in their compliance with the relevant Penalty Fares Regulations and hence I would contest any Penalty on that basis alone (as long as there is not a case for a RoRA prosecution as the alternative).

 

[Gareth Marston]

sTAR is not bad though you do have to manually input everything. Remembering to work out the difference between fare on ticket and one it's being excessed to at the very start!

Don't get to do them that often though. Latest was changing a standard Anytime return from Glasgow to Inverness to a First Class Anytime return difference was only 40 quid......

 

[Bletchleyite]

Out of interest, how do you get an excess fare from a TVM?

You don't at present - though you can in Switzerland and France (sort-of) so the idea is not completely far fetched.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'm having nightmares already just thinking about it.

 

[sheff1]

You don't at present - though you can in Switzerland and France (sort-of) so the idea is not completely far fetched.

I have not used a TVM for this in Switzerland but have done change of route excesses at a couple of booking offices there and the process was painless, even though the clerk's first language was obviously not English and my German is rather basic. When I last tried, unsuccessfully, to do the same in England, I might as well have been speaking Swiss German for all the sense I got out of the booking clerk.

 

[janb]

sTAR is not bad though you do have to manually input everything. Remembering to work out the difference between fare on ticket and one it's being excessed to at the very start!

No you don't have to.
Set up the fare that customer has so for example LDS-SKI CDR £9.50 as if you were going to sell it.
Press Excess From
Put in the existing ticket number
Select Peak Period and one of Outward Only/Return Only/Whole Journey on the Supply XS Details tab
Get Fares
Select LDS-SKI SDR £11.20 on Pick New Ticket screen
Select the £1.70 excess and then payment method/add to basket as normal

Easy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have not used a TVM for this in Switzerland but have done change of route excesses at a couple of booking offices there and the process was painless, even though the clerk's first language was obviously not English and my German is rather basic. When I last tried, unsuccessfully, to do the same in England, I might as well have been speaking Swiss German for all the sense I got out of the booking clerk.

Now I remember correctly you can't do change of route on a Swiss TVM but you can do class excesses (Klassenwechsel) which are probably more equivalent to the excess under discussion in the thread. It's sold as a separate ticket valid only with a second class one covering the same journey.

The French ones are for TGV and are for "exchange" on reservation compulsory tickets so you can swap a lot more things. You insert your old ticket for credit from it.

 

[reb0118]

The French ones are for TGV and are for "exchange" on reservation compulsory tickets so you can swap a lot more things. You insert your old ticket for credit from it.

I think I managed to change a FIP rate Eurostar ticket to a later service at a machine at Bordeaux St. Jean. I have never been able to repeat that feat.

 

[142blue]

You can't. I agree with @Bletchleyite - if ticket offices are to remain a long term feature of the network then they need to provide a top notch service.

This is my view whilst I'm in work. Provide the best possible customer service, help fix or sort problems, ensure what we sell is correct, cost effective and matches the requirement of the person buying the ticket. Reminding people why human to human contact is still important and that computers and FTMs have a purpose but so do we.

 

[philthetube]

If a member of staff will not do something that is clearly their job and they have not been told not to do it, they are being lazy and not doing their job properly..

Hardly lazy, just wanting to keep their job.

No you don't have to.
Set up the fare that customer has so for example LDS-SKI CDR £9.50 as if you were going to sell it.
Press Excess From
Put in the existing ticket number
Select Peak Period and one of Outward Only/Return Only/Whole Journey on the Supply XS Details tab
Get Fares
Select LDS-SKI SDR £11.20 on Pick New Ticket screen
Select the £1.70 excess and then payment method/add to basket as normal

Easy.

Says something about the training when it has to be done on a forum.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hardly lazy, just wanting to keep their job.

I think you misread. Or are you suggesting they *have* been told not to, which as that excess is an entitlement would put the TOC next breach of the TSA, wouldn’t it?

 

[philthetube]

yes I misread, sorry

 

[Bletchleyite]

yes I misread, sorry

Fair enough