Island Line Railway - current state and the future

[Bletchleyite]

You can also buy through tickets onto the Island from any of the UK sales sites. The boat is entered in as a virtual train.

Last time I checked, the through ticket to Esplanade was *cheaper* than the ticket to Ryde Pier Head, and may well have been cheaper than the ferry ticket alone too.

 

[pompeyfan]

The hovercraft through ticket is a comparative bargain. A single from Fratton to Ryde hoverport is £13ish, but you couldn’t route from Mainline to island line via Hovertravel.

 

[B&I]

I can confirm from recent experience that a through ticket on Wightlink is substantially cheaper than train and ferry purchased seperately (at least in my case, from Liverpool). More bizarrely, a ticket from Ryde St John's Road (but not from Pier Head or Esplanade) to Portsmouth Stations was several quid cheaper than a return hovercraft ticket by itself !

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Having read the speculative suggestions so far put forward on this thread, is there a date when the replacement traction unit type will be officially announced?

 

[Hadders]

In terms of revenue collection, barriers should be installed at all the stations.

And you'll need to employ staff at every station to monitor them. No way will that stack up financially.

 

[B&I]

And you'll need to employ staff at every station to monitor them. No way will that stack up financially.

As a more general point, is there no way barriers can be operated remotely, with good quality cameras and help points ?

 

[A0]

A lot will. I do wonder if they might manage to get into an agreement with Wightlink to include it in all ferry tickets (discouraging car use) and thus make that section free.

Which since Wightlink run services to Fishbourne and Yarmouth the latter of which is nowhere near a rail connection and the former a fair way from it seems somewhat pointless don't you think?

The railway is only any use if you want to travel from Ryde to Shanklin and stops en route or vice versa.

And for the short run on the ferry the IoW council already charge cars for going onto the pierhead in any case. The problem with your suggestion is that there is pretty much no parking at Esplanade so if a car is meeting a passenger with luggage, pierhead is far more convenient.

 

[MarkyT]

As a more general point, is there no way barriers can be operated remotely, with good quality cameras and help points ?

Yes that can work for a short distance scenario such as an alternate access to a staffed station, where some one can quickly go and investigate if there are tech problems, but another totally unstaffed station a few miles away is a different proposition. Not saying it's impossible though. I think the best solution on IOW to avoid a lot of expense is three car walk through trains that don't have to be lengthened in summer and on board revenue protection normally by guard/conductor, assisted in peaks as necessary by part time, short term contract staff.

 

[DelW]

The hovercraft through ticket is a comparative bargain. A single from Fratton to Ryde hoverport is £13ish, but you couldn’t route from Mainline to island line via Hovertravel.

You can buy through tickets between mainland stations and island stations via the hovercraft, I've used them. They also cover the bus from Portsmouth & Southsea station to Southsea hoverport. The NR journey planner will show fares that way if you put Southsea (SHV) or Ryde (XRD) hoverports in the "via" box.

 

[A0]

Having read the speculative suggestions so far put forward on this thread, is there a date when the replacement traction unit type will be officially announced?

Nothing yet - but given the 230s are due to start commissioning trials for the Marston Vale imminently, I wonder if there will be an announcement once they've done a few miles there first?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which since Wightlink run services to Fishbourne and Yarmouth the latter of which is nowhere near a rail connection and the former a fair way from it seems somewhat pointless don't you think?

Is it not reasonably obvious that I meant all ferry services to Ryde, not ones that serve miles away and are thus completely irrelevant to the discussion?

 

[pompeyfan]

You can buy through tickets between mainland stations and island stations via the hovercraft, I've used them. They also cover the bus from Portsmouth & Southsea station to Southsea hoverport. The NR journey planner will show fares that way if you put Southsea (SHV) or Ryde (XRD) hoverports in the "via" box.

Thanks for that. I couldn’t find them but I know where to look now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can buy through tickets between mainland stations and island stations via the hovercraft, I've used them. They also cover the bus from Portsmouth & Southsea station to Southsea hoverport. The NR journey planner will show fares that way if you put Southsea (SHV) or Ryde (XRD) hoverports in the "via" box.

It appears to do that but I believe they are not actually valid (Hovertravel make it clear that the only rail tickets they accept are those *to* Ryde Hoverport). One of those tickets is only valid via the ferry despite the itinerary it will produce. Could do with being fixed, that; I came across it last time I went to the IoW and fancied going one way on the boat and one way on the hovercraft, though in the event the weather was bad and the hovercraft was off anyway.

 

[DelW]

It appears to do that but I believe they are not actually valid (Hovertravel make it clear that the only rail tickets they accept are those *to* Ryde Hoverport). One of those tickets is only valid via the ferry despite the itinerary it will produce. Could do with being fixed, that; I came across it last time I went to the IoW and fancied going one way on the boat and one way on the hovercraft, though in the event the weather was bad and the hovercraft was off anyway.

I've used through tickets via the hovercraft to and from Smallbrook Junction several times without any problem. The ticket desk clerk at the hoverport checks them and issues a boarding card, so it's not that they weren't inspected (unlike on Wightlink, where a friend of mine only spotted on our return ferry journey that he'd been issued with a "via Hovertravel" ticket!).
Edit: see photo that I posted here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trip-to-isle-of-wight-with-hovercraft.165330/#post-3503813

 

[Paul Kelly]

From certain origin stations there are separate through fares to IoW stations for both Hovertravel and Wightlink. E.g from Eastleigh to Shanklin: http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=ESL&dest=SHN There are fares routed both ANY PERM+HOVRTVL and ANY PERM+WIGHTLK. The "HOVRTVL" fares are cheaper.

 

[K.o.R]

It boggles my mind how the hovercraft can be cheaper.

I infinitely enjoy the ferry more though. Sit up top in the sun for a leisurely cruise. Actually it's not that leisurely, the Wight Ryders can go some.

 

[cav1975]

W
And for the short run on the ferry the IoW council already charge cars for going onto the pierhead in any case. The problem with your suggestion is that there is pretty much no parking at Esplanade so if a car is meeting a passenger with luggage, pierhead is far more convenient.

Wightlink own the pier and they make the charge. They spent a fortune a few years ago refurbishing the vehicle pier so it is not unreasonable for them to recover some of their costs

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It boggles my mind how the hovercraft can be cheaper.

I infinitely enjoy the ferry more though. Sit up top in the sun for a leisurely cruise. Actually it's not that leisurely, the Wight Ryders can go some.

Perhaps that goes some way to answering your query about how the hovercraft can be cheaper?

 

[pompeyfan]

Perhaps that goes some way to answering your query about how the hovercraft can be cheaper?

That ideas doesn’t float with me, surely people choose depending on speed, reliability and comfort? Admittedly on reliability and possibly comfort the ferry wins (especially compared to their old AP88 craft) but you’ve got the option to go on something that is the *WORLDS ONLY* for something significantly cheaper than a generic passenger cat.

Obviously this is all very well related to stock for the future of the island line though!

 

[TubeMapCentral]

We need to know the difference between hovercraft and boat for purchase price, maintenance, staffing, fuel consumption. With faster travel, a hovercraft should be making more journeys per day to earn its keep too. I suspect the last factor is very important.

 

[pompeyfan]

The Hovercraft can maintain a half hourly service with one craft, or 15 minute frequency with two. Wightlink require 2 boats to provide 2 crossings an hour.

If I recall correctly Hovertravel received £5m financing from Barclays but I’m not sure if that included R&D.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

We need to know the difference between hovercraft and boat for purchase price, maintenance, staffing, fuel consumption. With faster travel, a hovercraft should be making more journeys per day to earn its keep too. I suspect the last factor is very important.

That is very true, and does suggest the hovercraft might have lower costs. (On the other hand: How many people can the hovercraft fit in one trip vs the ferry?) We also need to remember that successful businesses generally don't only consider costs when deciding on their prices. Mainly, the price will be determined by what the business thinks people are willing to pay: A successful business will try to charge the prices that maximise its revenue. And if that more than covers costs, the business will remain solvent and profitable. Most businesses will also try to charge more to customers willing to pay more, and less to customers not willing to pay as much (hence advance tickets and student railcards, both of which allow train companies to get passengers who wouldn't be willing to pay as much, while continuing to charge higher prices to people who are willing to pay higher prices).

That ideas doesn’t float with me, surely people choose depending on speed, reliability and comfort? Admittedly on reliability and possibly comfort the ferry wins (especially compared to their old AP88 craft) but you’ve got the option to go on something that is the *WORLDS ONLY* for something significantly cheaper than a generic passenger cat.

Obviously this is all very well related to stock for the future of the island line though!

Some people will certainly choose comfort over speed: For evidence for that, look at the Far North Line: It's slower than buses and so would have next to no passengers if it was all about speed.

Thinking about 'what you can get away with charging' rather than just costs, I'm guessing that advantages the ferry has are possibly: More pleasant journey with the ability to stroll outside and admire the view, perception of being less noisy, better connections with the train (true at both ends, but probably a bigger factor at the Portsmouth end), fares easier to find online if connecting by train. Also, for tourists, speed might not be a factor or might even work the opposite way from what you expect: Some tourists might consider a boat ride to be pleasant/unusual enough that they'd prefer a longer ride.

 

[DelW]

There's no speed advantage either way for journeys from mainland stations (at least on the Direct from Waterloo) to Island line stations; either route connects to the same train at Ryde, because the faster hovercraft crossing is balanced out by the need for a bus transfer at Southsea.

AIUI Wightlink no longer has a 'spare' older catamaran as back-up to Wight Ryder I & II, so if one of those is out of action for maintenance or repairs, they can only offer an hourly service at best. In that situation the hovercraft may pick up extra business. Hovertravel seemed to have around 3 or 4 available last time I was at Ryde.

 

[A0]

There's no speed advantage either way for journeys from mainland stations (at least on the Direct from Waterloo) to Island line stations; either route connects to the same train at Ryde, because the faster hovercraft crossing is balanced out by the need for a bus transfer at Southsea.

AIUI Wightlink no longer has a 'spare' older catamaran as back-up to Wight Ryder I & II, so if one of those is out of action for maintenance or repairs, they can only offer an hourly service at best. In that situation the hovercraft may pick up extra business. Hovertravel seemed to have around 3 or 4 available last time I was at Ryde.

I'd argue the bus journey at Portsmouth to the Hovercraft terminal is cancelled out by the waiting for a train at Ryde down to Esplanade, whereas the Hovercraft has dropped you off on the other side of the bridge to Esplanade station....

 

[DelW]

I'd argue the bus journey at Portsmouth to the Hovercraft terminal is cancelled out by the waiting for a train at Ryde down to Esplanade, whereas the Hovercraft has dropped you off on the other side of the bridge to Esplanade station....

That's true if you're going to Ryde itself, but I'm usually heading further south (most often to Smallbrook Junction), so I end up catching the same train from Esplanade that I would have caught at Pier Head. Admittedly it can sometimes be easier to get on at Esplanade, especially if it's raining over the pier and no-one wants to walk down it

 

[K.o.R]

AIUI Wightlink no longer has a 'spare' older catamaran as back-up to Wight Ryder I & II

Interesting; it has been a while, but I thought they borrowed/commandeered the Historic Dockyard's harbour tour boat when necessary.

Internet says the Wight Ryders can carry 260 passengers, and the Solent/Island Flyer carries 80.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the daytime service is only hourly now to allow for basic maintenance on one to be done each day?

 

[DelW]

Interesting; it has been a while, but I thought they borrowed/commandeered the Historic Dockyard's harbour tour boat when necessary.

I've never encountered that option, but that's not to say it hasn't been done. It would struggle with the schedule, the Wight Ryders can do 30mph once clear of the harbour.

Some time ago (probably a year or more) my local BBC traffic news was regularly warning of a one boat service as one of the catamarans had serious engine problems that took some time to repair.

 

[K.o.R]

I think the daytime service is only hourly now to allow for basic maintenance on one to be done each day?

No, half-hourly (ish). The schedule did indeed go out the window when they had to use the Solent Cat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, half-hourly (ish). The schedule did indeed go out the window when they had to use the Solent Cat.

Look at note "c", which would be better shown as BHO (Bank Holidays Only) as people would know what it meant! On weekdays, the service is hourly during the day as I said.