Poll: What are your suggestions for the future redundant HST sets?

[LOL The Irony]

You do realise that there is in fact a Pacer Preservation Society, right?

There are 2. The first one went bust and the second one hasn't been heard from for a while.

 

[Train wasp]

Just wonder if they could go for export.

 

[43096]

Just wonder if they could go for export.

Just what market is there for a 40-year-old 125mph diesel train outside the UK? Somewhere approximately around zero, I would suggest.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

They should be renovated to become the backbone of a new TOC that is solely dedicated to maintaining as direct service as possible during engineering possessions.
It would however first need to be made illegal for TOCs to decide to give up and tell people they can't travel before this particular TOC would become viable.

 

[USRailFan]

Just what market is there for a 40-year-old 125mph diesel train outside the UK? Somewhere approximately around zero, I would suggest.

I guess possibly the Aussies might buy a powercar or two for spares..

 

[43096]

I guess possibly the Aussies might buy a powercar or two for spares..

Aussies are looking at fleet replacement for the XPTs, so unlikely.

 

[Geoff DC]

Would make a good replacement for the 800's

 

[JonasB]

Just wonder if they could go for export.

I've been thinking the same, but really can't see where. A couple of years ago DSB might have been interested in something that could replace the failed IC4 pretty fast, but they have now decided to electrify more instead. But where else? A train built for british loading gauge won't be popular in other European countries, and is there any country with unelectrified main lines for 200 km/h? And how much conversion will be needed to run in other parts of Europe? Would it be possible to "regear" them for lower top speed but better acceleration?

 

[ANWP Tom]

Plus there are a surprising number of us, primarily those who have grown up in the north of England over the past thirty years, who can get sentimental over Pacers, even when we can readily admit that they're not fit to meet expectations of 21st century commuting.

Some but but not all spending some early years having these replace 31s and the proceed to beat you up on a journey to Lancaster along the coast engrained hatred at an early age for them. Atleast when the 31 went bank after 300 yards there was a chance of something interesting rescuing lol

 

[_toommm_]

You do realise that there is in fact a Pacer Preservation Society, right?

Plus there are a surprising number of us, primarily those who have grown up in the north of England over the past thirty years, who can get sentimental over Pacers, even when we can readily admit that they're not fit to meet expectations of 21st century commuting.

Could not agree more! I absolutely loathe them in regular commuter-style services (as I do the 150s), but on scenic routes such as the Hope Valley, I'll take one with bench-style seating any day.

 

[USRailFan]

I've been thinking the same, but really can't see where. A couple of years ago DSB might have been interested in something that could replace the failed IC4 pretty fast, but they have now decided to electrify more instead. But where else? A train built for british loading gauge won't be popular in other European countries, and is there any country with unelectrified main lines for 200 km/h? And how much conversion will be needed to run in other parts of Europe? Would it be possible to "regear" them for lower top speed but better acceleration?

The Danes went for surplus ICE-TDs from Germany in the short term

 

[cjmillsnun]

They should be renovated to become the backbone of a new TOC that is solely dedicated to maintaining as direct service as possible during engineering possessions.
It would however first need to be made illegal for TOCs to decide to give up and tell people they can't travel before this particular TOC would become viable.

who would run it? Where would the drivers come from? How would you make sure they had the right route knowledge?

 

[Controller1701]

The first picture on this site shows what should happen to the remaining HST sets....

http://www.preservedthumpers.com/articles-mayer-newman.html

 

[JonasB]

The Danes went for surplus ICE-TDs from Germany in the short term

A much better choice in my opinon.

 

[trainmania100]

Coaches should be turned into accomodation for the homeless

 

[DenmarkRail]

I've been thinking the same, but really can't see where. A couple of years ago DSB might have been interested in something that could replace the failed IC4 pretty fast, but they have now decided to electrify more instead. But where else? A train built for british loading gauge won't be popular in other European countries, and is there any country with unelectrified main lines for 200 km/h? And how much conversion will be needed to run in other parts of Europe? Would it be possible to "regear" them for lower top speed but better acceleration?

A) They are too powerful for DSB... DSB don't require something like that, they require something similar to a 180 for the IC4 replacement...

B) DSB aren't even replacing the IC4s anymore, they are replacing them with what they replaced. IC3 trains are the main backbone, with some IC4s remaining. IR4s for electric, releasing IC3s for IC4 replacement.

C) DSB will eventually replace the IC3s with loco hauled stock **YAYY!** once all of the ME and EA trains have been replaced. I don't think an order has yet been placed for the coaching stock though.

D) It would be more expensive for the HSTs to be certified for Denmark, than actually repairing the IC4s... The best bet for export for the HSTs would be split the powercars up, and use them for freight locos in poorer nations, but then theres the issue that most poorer nations don't use our track gauge (Cambodia, etc).

To conclude, the best thing to do is scrap the remaining

 

[USRailFan]

C) DSB will eventually replace the IC3s with loco hauled stock **YAYY!** once all of the ME and EA trains have been replaced. I don't think an order has yet been placed for the coaching stock though.

Do you have a source for that other than railfan speculation/wishful thinking? The ordered Vectrons will be used with the existing (and some new?) double-decker cars in regional service + the remaining cross-border trains with hauled stock (such as the wintertime "skier trains" to Austria), AFAIK no decision has been made as to what will replace the IC3s on long-distance services yet.

 

[hooverboy]

vivarail!!! obviously.
it's a cut "n" shut type 3/4 freight loco....using 1 full loco body, 1 sawn off cab, MTU power plant and the bogies from a GBRF retiring 37!.
IF GBRF plan to get rid of their 86's then the transformers and electricals can be cannibalised for bi-modes!

wouldn't matter too much about the loco putting on a bit of weight as the hst loco engine is so light anyway.you'd get much better torque and traction with something sitting around the 90T mark.Would be needed for decent haulage but decent acceleration and low RA.

(90mph max) 3000HP on electrics,2200BHP on diesel is quite a nice light/mixed freight loco spec for rural lines where a 66 is overkill,2* 20 too heavy on fuel and 1*31 can't do the inclines.

 

[LOL The Irony]

vivarail!!! obviously.
it's a cut "n" shut type 3 freight loco....using 1 full loco body, 1 sawn off cab, MTU power plant and the bogies from a GBRF retiring 37!.
IF GBRF plan to get rid of their 86's then the transformers and electricals can be cannibalised for bi-modes!

brilliant!

 

[USRailFan]

vivarail!!! obviously.
it's a cut "n" shut type 3 freight loco....using 1 full loco body, 1 sawn off cab, MTU power plant and the bogies from a GBRF retiring 37!.
IF GBRF plan to get rid of their 86's then the transformers and electricals can be cannibalised for bi-modes!

GBRf have Class 37s??

 

[nat67]

Errrrrrr. No.
VP = VP185. Engine in use with EMT (and XPT whilst we're about it). 125 Group have none of them.
Valenta = RP200L in Paxman's type description (also known when first designed as Y3J, or "Mark 3 Ventura"). 125 Group have some in store awaiting the day....

VP185 is NOT Valenta. Two completely different engine types, separated by around 20-25 years. The only real commonality is they were both manufactured by Paxman.

Yaa. VP as in Valenta Paxman. Obviously why would the 125 Group have them .

 

[nat67]

VPs... Valenta (Paxman)?

Yes exactly some people really need to go back to school V .

 

[Bletchleyite]

But, and there is a but, the journey experience does depend on where one ends up sitting, far more than comparable trains. There are some pretty rubbish seat positions on these trains for various reasons, although to be fair this comes from someone who enjoys window gazing so perhaps it’s not quite such an issue for most. The first class in particular is very nice indeed IMO.

I'd agree with that, it is my favourite UK First Class. Not over-opulent, not overstated, no leather (I don't like it anyway other than headrests), but just comfortable, understated and with a cosy (I know some people call it dingy) interior scheme and lighting. The only thing I'd change is to turn some of the single seats round so there are some single airline seats in each coach as this would be my preference.

 

[43096]

Yaa. VP as in Valenta Paxman. Obviously why would the 125 Group have them .

I have never ever heard the Valenta referred to as a VP. RP200L, yes. Y3J, yes. VP, never.

VP=VP185.
You are just making stuff up that is both confusing and plain wrong.

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

delete

 

[3141]

This really is starting from the wrong end.

The question as phrased seems to have a subtext of 'how can these trains I love be kept going?'. But in the real world - the world of franchised operators looking to make profits, limited resources, insufficient stock to meet passenger demand, and so on, the subtext should probably be 'what resources does the railway need right now?' and the headline question 'how can redundant HSTs best be used to meet the railway's urgent needs?'.

Even British Rail, if they were still part of the "real world", would think about whether trains that are forty years old were worth modernising, repairing, and maintaining, and they'd be thinking about running costs and emissions. They might retain a small number of the better examples to do particular things, like the plans by GWR and Scotrail, and a few would go for preservation or charter use (which is a matter for the preservationists and charter providers to decide about), but the majority would go for scrap.

 

[Iskra]

XC should take more than they currently have to allow them to double up more voyagers or 170's elsewhere. That is the only need for HST's. Unless of course they have grand rolling stock plans in the new franchise.

Once they are gone, we can all move on to obsessing about TPE's new rolling stock which will then be the next 'best thing since sliced bread' that we offer as a solution to all railway problems.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

who would run it? Where would the drivers come from? How would you make sure they had the right route knowledge?

A post that pretty much sums up Britain today - why do anything when we can come up with plenty of reasons NOT to.
None are insurmountable problems unless you want them to be.
Japan manages to get it's trains up and running more quickly after earthquakes and tidal waves than we do after a timetable change.

 

[The Ham]

A post that pretty much sums up Britain today - why do anything when we can come up with plenty of reasons NOT to.
None are insurmountable problems unless you want them to be.
Japan manages to get it's trains up and running more quickly after earthquakes and tidal waves than we do after a timetable change.

The UK rail network could do a lot more, however at what cost?

It could be argued that part of the problem of the railways, in addition to the private sector and the DfT, are the unions. Combined those three elements cause a lot of the problems. Sometimes one more than the others (often taking it in turns in causing the most problems).

However if you look at any debate on here about public Vs private or company Vs unions on here you would get the impression that it was only ever one of the three.

 

[cjmillsnun]

A post that pretty much sums up Britain today - why do anything when we can come up with plenty of reasons NOT to.
None are insurmountable problems unless you want them to be.
Japan manages to get it's trains up and running more quickly after earthquakes and tidal waves than we do after a timetable change.

Not really. The railways are privately owned. Everything has to be done for profit. Without that you aren't going to get things like that to happen. Personally, as an enthusiast, I would love it if there were more diversions to allow trains to run through engineering works. But I'm a realist and am giving the arguments that will be thrown up.