ATW North Wales Coast Shambles

[Llandudno]

Boarded the 1045 Llandudno to Manchester Airport train yesterday (Sat 18 Aug). A 2 coach, 175 unit. Left Llandudno on time with around 60% of the seats occupied. Departed Colwyn Bay with standing passengers, then left approx the following passengers behind en-route
Abergele 20
Rhyl 70
Prestatyn 40
Flint 20
Shotton 10

Chaos at Chester, 100 plus alighted, 100 plus boarded, some left on the platform.
Passengers left behind at Frodsham, Runcorn East and Warrington BQ.

Yet more left behind at Earlestown and Newton le Willows (at least they have other trains)

Owing to the number of passengers, two wheelchairs, five bicycles and numerous pushchairs and suitcases (some returns from caravans and some no doubt going to Manchester Airport) the train was 30 minutes late arriving in Manchester.

Not only is it unfair on the passengers but the poor guard and catering trolley are fighting a losing battle. Sky high fares too, no off-peak day returns along the North Wales Coast to Chester, Liverpool or Manchester!


Return journey 2032 Ex Chester slightly better, a three coach 175 unit, standing load until Rhyl, but at least everyone managed to get on!

New trains/refurbished London units coming in 2020 - jam tomorrow!

 

[43055]

I don't think it is unusual but I haven't seen it that bad that people have been left behind. I have been on a full 5 car Voyager between Llandudno Junction and Crewe. I think ATW are low on units at the momnet and are possibly using anything to save canceling services as there was a 150/158 combo at Birmingham on Friday going to Aberystwyth/ Pwllheli.

Would it be possible to use the loco hauled sets at the weekend to free up another unit?

 

[Starmill]

Would it be possible to use the loco hauled sets at the weekend to free up another unit?

This has been done on occasion. Things are particularly bad in August, or when Chester Races are on!

 

[Llandudno]

No Chester Races, no Liverpool (only Everton!!) no Man Utd/City football either.

Plenty going shopping, drinking and returning from holidays by the looks of it!

Saturday traffic seems to be increasing throughout the country, is it because of the demise of the High Street in small/mid size towns. People now go shopping and make a day and a night of it in the larger towns and cities which have a better variety of shops, restaurants and bars etc. Seems like it in Chester, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle and York?

 

[Starmill]

Saturday traffic seems to be increasing throughout the country, is it because of the demise of the High Street in small/mid size towns.

Metrolink have reported through the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee minutes that Saturday has been their busiest day of the week for some time. Of course, their services are designed around major events to a bigger magnitude than most train operators, and such events are more likely to be on Saturdays.

 

[43074]

Saturday traffic seems to be increasing throughout the country, is it because of the demise of the High Street in small/mid size towns. People now go shopping and make a day and a night of it in the larger towns and cities which have a better variety of shops, restaurants and bars etc. Seems like it in Chester, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle and York?

Granted this isn't specific to the North Wales Coast but certainly in the North from my experience all day demand on Saturdays seems to be as strong as the weekday peaks but sustained pretty much throughout the day. In the North there rarely seems to be a weekend without some an event of some sort - the football season is obviously late August to early May, during the Summer the weather's decent so people like to be out and about shopping/socialising in the cities, there's massive demand for the Christmas markets from about late November so for much of the year there will always be a reason for lots of people to travel. Then there are the constants of attractive pricing on many routes (in the North down to PTE pricing strategies) making it cheaper and less hassle than the cost of driving, the fact that fewer young people are learning to drive, traffic congestion and reasonably frequent services on the whole and it's fairly easy to see why Saturday traffic is strong and seems to be increasing.

 

[PHILIPE]

I don't think it is unusual but I haven't seen it that bad that people have been left behind. I have been on a full 5 car Voyager between Llandudno Junction and Crewe. I think ATW are low on units at the momnet and are possibly using anything to save canceling services as there was a 150/158 combo at Birmingham on Friday going to Aberystwyth/ Pwllheli.

Would it be possible to use the loco hauled sets at the weekend to free up another unit?

ATW are currently short of units and, apart from being unable to meet demands with a full fleet, the current position is aggravated by PRM Mods taking place on the 150 and 158 fleets.
The 150 would not have gone beyond Shrewsbury due to not being fitted with ERTMS. with which only the 158 fleet is fitted. This situation happens quite frequently and it is often solved by the train in the opposite direction, which is at Shrewsbury at the same time, changing over lock stock and barrel. It is just a cross platform change between platforms 4 and 5 although, of course a major inconvenience to passengers who are making a through journey..

 

[43055]

This has been done on occasion. Things are particularly bad in August, or when Chester Races are on!

It would be good if they could use them more often at weekends. The other week I was at Crewe and the 1156 virgin to Chester was canceled and all the passengers had to try and get on a single 150 at 1223 which then left people behind. It was the Races at Chester so the large numbers of people was understandable. I haven't done the coast for a while but I know it can be quite bad at times.

ATW are currently short of units and, apart from being unable to meet demands with a full fleet, the current position is aggravated by PRM Mods taking place on the 150 and 158 fleets.
The 150 would not have gone beyond Shrewsbury due to not being fitted with ERTMS. with which only the 158 fleet is fitted. This situation happens quite frequently and it is often solved by the train in the opposite direction, which is at Shrewsbury at the same time, changing over lock stock and barrel. It is just a cross platform change between platforms 4 and 5 although, of course a major inconvenience to passengers who are making a through journey..

I thought they would have to swap the 150 at some point.

 

[frodshamfella]

Boarded the 1045 Llandudno to Manchester Airport train yesterday (Sat 18 Aug). A 2 coach, 175 unit. Left Llandudno on time with around 60% of the seats occupied. Departed Colwyn Bay with standing passengers, then left approx the following passengers behind en-route
Abergele 20
Rhyl 70
Prestatyn 40
Flint 20
Shotton 10

Chaos at Chester, 100 plus alighted, 100 plus boarded, some left on the platform.
Passengers left behind at Frodsham, Runcorn East and Warrington BQ.

Yet more left behind at Earlestown and Newton le Willows (at least they have other trains)

Owing to the number of passengers, two wheelchairs, five bicycles and numerous pushchairs and suitcases (some returns from caravans and some no doubt going to Manchester Airport) the train was 30 minutes late arriving in Manchester.

Not only is it unfair on the passengers but the poor guard and catering trolley are fighting a losing battle. Sky high fares too, no off-peak day returns along the North Wales Coast to Chester, Liverpool or Manchester!


Return journey 2032 Ex Chester slightly better, a three coach 175 unit, standing load until Rhyl, but at least everyone managed to get on!

New trains/refurbished London units coming in 2020 - jam tomorrow!

Very poor....I use this service from Frodsham to Chester it's often rammed ( and late) !

 

[frodshamfella]

No Chester Races, no Liverpool (only Everton!!) no Man Utd/City football either.

Plenty going shopping, drinking and returning from holidays by the looks of it!

Saturday traffic seems to be increasing throughout the country, is it because of the demise of the High Street in small/mid size towns. People now go shopping and make a day and a night of it in the larger towns and cities which have a better variety of shops, restaurants and bars etc. Seems like it in Chester, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle and York?

I also quite often go into Liverpool on a Saturday to see an exhibition or a matinee or shop. I get London Northwestern from Acton Bridge and that's often standing when it arrives. I'm looking forward to having more choice when I can go Frodsham to Liverpool direct later in the year.

 

[Llandudno]

Fingers crossed the new Wales and Borders franchise will find a couple of clapped out 2 carriage 150’s to operate this service from December!

I wonder what fares will be charged, will it cost more from Chester and Helsby/Frodsham to Liverpool than from Chester via Merseyrail?

 

[Spartacus]

Looks like that was the only 2 car diagram of the day, all the others being 3 or 4. I bet it didn't help that the previous Birmingham was a 2 car 150, which steadily lost a little time to Chester

I do tend to agree with the theory that the general run down of small/medium town high streets may have something to do with it, often you've got to go somewhere large to find any decent shops, and people are also less willing to just go out to their local pub for a night out, or do the few pubs on the high street, if they're still there, they're increasingly likely to have their big night out somewhere equally big. If you're going to a large town centre you probably don't want to be taking the car unless you have to for a number of reasons.

 

[Gareth Marston]

well see more of this sort of thing going into the new franchise for some time I'm afraid.

There's a perfect storm of

1. not enough vehicles in franchise anyway
2. a failure to source replacement rolling stock to allow PRM mods
3. back of end of 2019 before any cascades/Class 230's can make a difference.

and it will be the back end of 2019 when the PRM mods are done.......
All you need is one unit short for whatever reason and there's potential trouble.

Welsh Government/TfW in charge from October 15 is not going to produce a magic wand overnight no matter how much the Minister smiles and says world class.

Theirs 15 months of pain to come.....................

 

[Statto]

Very poor....I use this service from Frodsham to Chester it's often rammed ( and late) !

Double whammy with the Frodsham-Chester bus service being poor.

 

[Philip]

Would Manchester-South Wales services be able to cope with an increase in 2-car units on Saturdays in order to free up some 3-car units to cover all North Wales-Manchester diagrams?

And vice versa would it be a good idea to use the 4-coach loco set to cover the diagram which starts with the 04:50 Crewe-Milford Haven and finishes with the 21:17 Cardiff-Chester, during the week? (with the 3-car 175 covering the current loco-hauled diagram)

 

[Gareth Marston]

Would Manchester-South Wales services be able to cope with an increase in 2-car units on Saturdays in order to free up some 3-car units to cover all North Wales-Manchester diagrams?

Presumably your volunteering to be put in the stocks at Ludlow castle with this suggestion?

 

[Parallel]

2 cars on the Marches at weekends are also overcrowded from personal experience. The North Wales services are a real problem in summer though, and one that always seems to get forgotten about by ATW/WG. ATW have some very long distance passenger flows, so it’s not even like a short part of the journey is overcrowded. They just need more capacity. I’ve seen a 10 coach Voyager pull into Chester from Holyhead with nearly all seats taken.

 

[craigybagel]

Would Manchester-South Wales services be able to cope with an increase in 2-car units on Saturdays in order to free up some 3-car units to cover all North Wales-Manchester diagrams?

And vice versa would it be a good idea to use the 4-coach loco set to cover the diagram which starts with the 04:50 Crewe-Milford Haven and finishes with the 21:17 Cardiff-Chester, during the week? (with the 3-car 175 covering the current loco-hauled diagram)

On a weekday maybe, especially during summer (peak hour services are quieter then normal), but on a Saturday certainly not, the existing 2 car services are already struggling as it is. Not as bad as the coast is I'm sure, but still a struggle.

At present, you can't run LHCS north of Crewe or west of Cardiff due to lack of route/traction knowledge. I agree if ever there was a diagram on the Marches that would be a good one to increase, it's that one (the 0450 is very busy on arrival at Cardiff, and it also later on forms the 1730 from Manchester), but at the moment it is a no go unfortunately.

 

[frodshamfella]

Double whammy with the Frodsham-Chester bus service being poor.

That's true