Record employment...but also record vacancies

[yorkie]

Indeed. But Government does not need to endorse it or encourage the casualisation as they have done. They should be promoting good quality full time work. Many people are forced into zero hours work or "self employed contractor" work by the DWP who want people off the dole anyway they can. I wonder why it is that we have record employment levels but wages are worse than before the crash of 2008. If everything was so rosy wages would be shooting up and the BOE would need to raise interest rates lots to keep the economy in check. As it is the BOE is scared to even raise them by 0.25% with some commentators saying even that tiny rise was probably too early. It's very doom and gloom at the moment no matter how much you try and rose tint it!

I really do not understand your posts. You keep saying the same things but it doesn't make you right.

If people want permanent contracts, there are jobs out there. But some employers can only employ people on a short term / casual basis and some people are prepared to do that work. It seems you'd rather those jobs didn't exist though.

And this idea you have that your salary is about the right level for everyone and everyone else should have theirs raised to yours ignores the fact that if everyone was paid as much as you, inflation would occur and everything would have to cost more.

You are in an incredibly well paid job and in a privileged position but all I see you do, on every thread you post on, is moan. It's unclear if you are unhappy yourself (it sounds like it) or if you are unhappy on behalf of others.

If you are not enjoying live and not enjoying work, find something enjoyable to do. There are things out there if you go looking for them. I am sorry to hear you being so unhappy all the time but your negativity can't be good for your health. Try to think positively.

As for "they should be promoting good quality full time work"; I am not quite sure what you expect the Government to do? Some people do not want one full time job. I do not have one full time job but I absolutely love what I do and if that ever changed I would look for something else.

One of the jobs I do (for 2.5hrs/week) is very poorly paid but I love it most of the time. And the days when it is challenging I feel proud that I've been able to make a difference.

 

[Dave1987]

I really do not understand your posts. You keep saying the same things but it doesn't make you right.

If people want permanent contracts, there are jobs out there. But some employers can only employ people on a short term / casual basis and some people are prepared to do that work. It seems you'd rather those jobs didn't exist though.

And this idea you have that your salary is about the right level for everyone and everyone else should have theirs raised to yours ignores the fact that if everyone was paid as much as you, inflation would occur and everything would have to cost more.

You are in an incredibly well paid job and in a privileged position but all I see you do, on every thread you post on, is moan. It's unclear if you are unhappy yourself (it sounds like it) or if you are unhappy on behalf of others.

If you are not enjoying live and not enjoying work, find something enjoyable to do. There are things out there if you go looking for them. I am sorry to hear you being so unhappy all the time but your negativity can't be good for your health. Try to think positively.

As for "they should be promoting good quality full time work"; I am not quite sure what you expect the Government to do? Some people do not want one full time job. I do not have one full time job but I absolutely love what I do and if that ever changed I would look for something else.

One of the jobs I do (for 2.5hrs/week) is very poorly paid but I love it most of the time. And the days when it is challenging I feel proud that I've been able to make a difference.

I am not unhappy in my work at all. What I hate is how the world of work around me is slowly becoming worse for others. The Government should not allow the casualisation of work to undermine those in decent full time employment. The Government should not be supporting and praising business that doesn’t offer decent stable work opportunities. In an economy where work is supposedly so readily available everyone should be able to get a decent full time job if they want it. Not be forced into zero hours or low hours contracts or ‘self employed contract’ work simply to get them off the dole list to make the figures look good.

I believe certain people on this forum were advocating casualisation of the train driving grade to mitigate against any kind of industrial action......

I’m not an ‘I’m alright Jack’ kind of person either. In order to have a successful economy everyone should feel the economy works for them. I’ve spoken to taxi drivers who have to do 16 hr days just to make ends meet some days. That’s just ridiculous!

 

[Barn]

In an economy where work is supposedly so readily available everyone should be able to get a decent full time job if they want it. Not be forced into zero hours or low hours contracts or ‘self employed contract’ work simply to get them off the dole list to make the figures look good.

Are we looking at different figures? This is a thread about the latest ONS statistics and, despite employment going up generally, 104,000 FEWER people are reliant on ZHC work as their main source of income. Employment is up and self-employment is down.

 

[Dave1987]

Are we looking at different figures? This is a thread about the latest ONS statistics and, despite employment going up generally, 104,000 FEWER people are reliant on ZHC work as their main source of income. Employment is up and self-employment is down.

That’s still 700k people in ZHC work. You cannot tell me that all of those are semi retired or don’t want full time hours! With employment levels at the levels they are and these supposed record numbers of vacancies there should be no one in a ZHC who wants full time work. Wages should be shooting up and the BOE should be needing to raise interest rates to keep a lid on inflation. What is actually happening? Wages are still going up less than inflation, people are still getting statistically poorer and the BOE is fearful to raise interest rates. The economy is creating poorly paid insecure work and that is not a good sign at all. Of the decent jobs that are created people in this country don’t have the skills to fill the vacancies. That is not a thriving economy.

 

[deltic]

The data is a year old now and has been mentioned 100,000 people fewer are working zero hour contracts but according to fact check only a third of people on zero hour contracts want to work more hours

 

[Dave1987]

The data is a year old now and has been mentioned 100,000 people fewer are working zero hour contracts but according to fact check only a third of people on zero hour contracts want to work more hours

So that is still circa 230,000 people who are on a zero hours contract who want more hours. With supposedly huge amounts of vacancies how on earth can that be the case? Unless the economy isn't quite as rosey as some make out. If over 200,000 people want more work but cannot get anymore work even though there are huge amounts of vacancies that suggests there is something very very wrong with the economy. If it is the case that people are not skilled enough to take the vacancies then Government should be stepping in to assist people to gain the skills they need, not just go around shouting about unemployment figures.

 

[underbank]

If over 200,000 people want more work but cannot get anymore work even though there are huge amounts of vacancies that suggests there is something very very wrong with the economy.

Maybe it suggests that the available jobs and the available workers have different skill sets, are in different regions of the country, etc???

 

[Dave1987]

Maybe it suggests that the available jobs and the available workers have different skill sets, are in different regions of the country, etc???

Which suggests the economy isn’t working correctly for everyone as May pledged to do when she “won” the last election.

 

[Barn]

Which suggests the economy isn’t working correctly for everyone as May pledged to do when she “won” the last election.

I think you either overestimate the powers of Government or you wish to see some sort of Communist planned economy. She can't snap her fingers and give everyone the qualifications they need, free them from their other commitments or move them to the right location.

 

[Dave1987]

I think you either overestimate the powers of Government or you wish to see some sort of Communist planned economy. She can't snap her fingers and give everyone the qualifications they need, free them from their other commitments or move them to the right location.

She could do a darn site more than she is. Government should (as I have been saying for months) be putting in place a massive adult learning/retraining program to get people the skills they need. Not this piecemeal ‘national retraining scheme’ rubbish which provides a good sound bite for the cameras at press conferences. An economy that ‘works for everyone’ provides good employment opportunities for you or offers training for you to make the most of yourself. Not force you into a ZHC or ‘self employed contractor’ work if you don’t have the skills the better jobs require. The economy would take off if the Government actually started to take adult retraining seriously. But in an economy where education is a business to be milked for profit that will never happen.

 

[CC 72100]

She could do a darn site more than she is. Government should (as I have been saying for months) be putting in place a massive adult learning/retraining program to get people the skills they need. Not this piecemeal ‘national retraining scheme’ rubbish which provides a good sound bite for the cameras at press conferences. An economy that ‘works for everyone’ provides good employment opportunities for you or offers training for you to make the most of yourself. Not force you into a ZHC or ‘self employed contractor’ work if you don’t have the skills the better jobs require. The economy would take off if the Government actually started to take adult retraining seriously. But in an economy where education is a business to be milked for profit that will never happen.

If other governments of other colours didn't do so when employment figures were lower, why would this government do so with employment figures that are higher?

 

[deltic]

I wouldnt disagree but the skills required often require many years of training to achieve - see http://www.visabureau.com/uk/shortage-occupations-list.aspx for the list of key skills the UK needs - they are not something you can easily upskill someone to doing .

 

[Dave1987]

If other governments of other colours didn't do so when employment figures were lower, why would this government do so with employment figures that are higher?

Because the economy is currently highly reliant on debt being so cheap. How many people could survive if interest rates were at 3% and not go bankrupt or be in serious financial difficulty? If you read the business pages you will be the current boom is very reliant on consumer spending made larger by the fact money is incredibly cheap at the moment. The UK economy simply could not cope with interest rates at 3% at the moment. Many businesses and jobs are being kept afloat by the existence of cheap money. None of this is sustainable long term without the pound becoming weaker and weaker. But as we import vast amounts of our food we cannot afford the pound to be cheap long term. I am not as economically naive as some of you seem to believe.

 

[Dave1987]

I wouldnt disagree but the skills required often require many years of training to achieve - see http://www.visabureau.com/uk/shortage-occupations-list.aspx for the list of key skills the UK needs - they are not something you can easily upskill someone to doing .

Well they need to start as soon as then don’t they otherwise the UK economy is potentially extremely vulnerable to an enormous crash.

 

[underbank]

Which suggests the economy isn’t working correctly for everyone as May pledged to do when she “won” the last election.

Good grief, it's barely a year since she won the last election. Brown/Blair had 13 years and didn't make much progress beyond borrowing money for their spending spree.

 

[Barn]

An economy that ‘works for everyone’ provides good employment opportunities for you or offers training for you to make the most of yourself. Not force you into a ZHC or ‘self employed contractor’ work if you don’t have the skills the better jobs require.

It does feel a bit as if you are seeking nirvana. We've established upthread that the number of people relying on ZHCs is low as a proportion of the working population and falling. It's a strange time therefore to be launching another tirade against ZHCs. The economy certainly has its problems and there are uncertainties ahead but when you react to objectively "good news" statistics with this level of doom and gloom one can only assume that you are either rather miserable in temperament or that you are making political points. If you hate the Tories just say so.

Economies don't just serve highly paid secure jobs up on plates. And Governments don't control economies like chess pieces on a board. People need to study, search out opportunities, take risks, keep trying, develop, add value, gain experience and compete.

 

[Dave1987]

Good grief, it's barely a year since she won the last election. Brown/Blair had 13 years and didn't make much progress beyond borrowing money for their spending spree.

Well all I have seen from May is attack after attack on unions and some piecemeal PR about a retraining scheme, and lots and lots of “strong and stable Government” rubbish. Nothing of any substance. Thousands and thousands of jobs as risk over the coming years and nobody skilled enough to take the numerous job vacancies. Yeah that definitely an economy fit for everyone..... not!!

 

[Bromley boy]

one can only assume that you are either rather miserable in temperament or that you are making political points.

To be fair to @Dave1987 moaning rather comes with the territory in his line of work .

 

[Dave1987]

It does feel a bit as if you are seeking nirvana. We've established upthread that the number of people relying on ZHCs is low as a proportion of the working population and falling. It's a strange time therefore to be launching another tirade against ZHCs. The economy certainly has its problems and there are uncertainties ahead but when you react to objectively "good news" statistics with this level of doom and gloom one can only assume that you are either rather miserable in temperament or that you are making political points. If you hate the Tories just say so.

Economies don't just serve highly paid secure jobs up on plates. And Governments don't control economies like chess pieces on a board. People need to study, search out opportunities, take risks, keep trying, develop, add value, gain experience and compete.

I'm not seeking any kind of "nirvana" at all. Yes in their current guise i do hate the Tories. They are creating an economy of hate and jealousy where they seek to pitch citizens against each other. The cliche "race to the bottom" is very apt for the economy as it is. If the Tories transformed education into a world of access for everyone so everyone could up-skill easily without financial penalty then everyone would have the opportunity the up-skill for the job opportunities of the future. The current Tory way? Education is business to be milked for all its worth. The economy will suffer for it long term when the cheap money train ends and people cannot afford to retrain.

 

[Barn]

I'm not seeking any kind of "nirvana" at all. Yes in their current guise i do hate the Tories. They are creating an economy of hate and jealousy where they seek to pitch citizens against each other.

Yes, citizens compete against each other for jobs. I'm not sure why competition is transalted as 'hate' and 'jealousy'. The only societies in which there is no scope for jealousy are those in which there is enforced equality - i.e. communism. But in those societies there are also things like starvation, secret police and gulags. In any event, perhaps you might welcome the fact we have high vacancies which will lead to pressure on employers to do the competing, and try to entice employees.

The current Tory way? Education is business to be milked for all its worth.

What do you mean by this? I'm not aware that for-profit education has significantly increased in proportion since the Tories came into office.

 

[Dave1987]

Yes, citizens compete against each other for jobs. I'm not sure why competition is transalted as 'hate' and 'jealousy'. The only societies in which there is no scope for jealousy are those in which there is enforced equality - i.e. communism. But in those societies there are also things like starvation, secret police and gulags. In any event, perhaps you might welcome the fact we have high vacancies which will lead to pressure on employers to do the competing, and try to entice employees.

What do you mean by this? I'm not aware that for-profit education has significantly increased in proportion since the Tories came into office.

Hate and jealously are only bread when people have no chance to better themselves because they have no means to better themselves. Or the Government and press deliberately stir hatred and jealously by pitting one second of society against another as the current Government is doing with its hate campaign against the unions. Of course an economy can only produce so much wealth and by the lower classes improving their prospects it means the higher classes will have to sacrifice some of their wealth and that definitely won't suit the right wing of the Tory party. You only have to look at the costs of courses for adult education to realise that education is a business to be run for profit. The Tories are in power when adult education and retraining is needed most, but I cannot imagine a right wing Tory being happy for someone to be retrained for free or a small cost they can afford. I'm well aware that you view this as a dog eat dog world but when you have stagnating wages and vacancies that people simply do not have the skills to fill nor the resources to get trained to fill those vacancies, you are heading down a very slippery slope towards economic ruin.

 

[deltic]

I suggest we stop spending £4bn a year on the railways and divert it into retraining people to meet the skill shortage - that should train about 400,000 people a year, a far better return on taxpayers money

 

[Dave1987]

I suggest we stop spending £4bn a year on the railways and divert it into retraining people to meet the skill shortage - that should train about 400,000 people a year, a far better return on taxpayers money

Or divert some of the 11% rise in executive pay towards retraining those at the bottom of their organisations to be able to find better paid work than giving themselves massive pay and bonus rises?

 

[43021HST]

Something just doesn't sit right with me with those figures. I know this is purely anecdotal but I find peoples attitudes to jobs, don't suggest a "walk out of one job, walk into another", type mentality. Many people I know are incredibly cautious, stuck in unsatisfactory jobs, just to keep their head above water. (Not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford to simply 'find a better job,' as has been purported on here.)

Another thought, is perhaps all these vacancies is maybe to do with many IT jobs having moved onto new fields but the labour market has yet to catch up?

I think in 10 years or so, when the current lot of secondary school children are out of higher education/uni and seeking careers, there'll be far better trained for modern IT work than us 80s to 2000s school leavers who never really touched any sort of advanced programming, networking, web-building etc. If you asked me at 16, what a server, VPN and active directory was, I'd just stare at you blankly. This is all business IT fundamentals that every schoolchild should be aware of.

The current IT Labour market is currently relying on people who have spent a large amount of their time self teaching, hobbyists really.

 

[Barn]

Something just doesn't sit right with me with those figures. I know this is purely anecdotal but I find peoples attitudes to jobs, don't suggest a "walk out of one job, walk into another", type mentality.

Every sector is different but, from an employer's point of view, on recent recruitments it has actually been quite hard to find candidates. Not because of unsuitable people applying, but rather just a slow rate of applications.

 

[Dai Corner]

Something just doesn't sit right with me with those figures. I know this is purely anecdotal but I find peoples attitudes to jobs, don't suggest a "walk out of one job, walk into another", type mentality. Many people I know are incredibly cautious, stuck in unsatisfactory jobs, just to keep their head above water. (Not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford to simply 'find a better job,' as has been purported on here.)

Anecdotally again, but relatives of mine in prosperous North Somerset and Bristol have walked out of one job and into another fairly regularly. They work in retail and distribution. Perhaps it depends on which industry and part of the country you're in?

Another thought, is perhaps all these vacancies is maybe to do with many IT jobs having moved onto new fields but the labour market has yet to catch up?

I think in 10 years or so, when the current lot of secondary school children are out of higher education/uni and seeking careers, there'll be far better trained for modern IT work than us 80s to 2000s school leavers who never really touched any sort of advanced programming, networking, web-building etc. If you asked me at 16, what a server, VPN and active directory was, I'd just stare at you blankly. This is all business IT fundamentals that every schoolchild should be aware of.

The current IT Labour market is currently relying on people who have spent a large amount of proportion of their time self teaching, hobbyists really.

I am/was (retired now) one of those who developed an interest in computers into a career in IT. My last job was in a school and it was very rare to find an IT Teacher who knew what a server, VPN or Active Directory was. Are these part of the curriculum now?

 

[Bromley boy]

Every sector is different but, from an employer's point of view, on recent recruitments it has actually been quite hard to find candidates. Not because of unsuitable people applying, but rather just a slow rate of applications.

Could that be because, in the legal sector, you’re looking for highly qualified people with a very specific blend of experience and PQE level?

 

[HSTEd]

It is highly likely that the fall in zero hours contracts masks a move to contracts that are not technically zero-hours, but still do not guarantee a significant amount of work to the worker.

4 hours per week, for example, would avoid negative publicity but would essentially enable de-facto zero hour contract operation.

 

[underbank]

I think in 10 years or so, when the current lot of secondary school children are out of higher education/uni and seeking careers, there'll be far better trained for modern IT work than us 80s to 2000s school leavers who never really touched any sort of advanced programming, networking, web-building etc. If you asked me at 16, what a server, VPN and active directory was, I'd just stare at you blankly. This is all business IT fundamentals that every schoolchild should be aware of.

That's optimistic. My son is is secondary school and there is no computer specific teaching happening at all. All his IT skills are self taught by using a pc/iphone/ipad/gaming console at home. Apparently, the school used to do the ECDL but stopped doing it a few years ago. They have plans to start offering computer science at GCSE level, but that won't help my son. All the classrooms have smart boards, most have PCs, but they're only used for reading the online text books etc.

 

[underbank]

I am/was (retired now) one of those who developed an interest in computers into a career in IT. My last job was in a school and it was very rare to find an IT Teacher who knew what a server, VPN or Active Directory was. Are these part of the curriculum now?

My son's school don't even have an IT teacher!