DRS Planning 10 X Mixed Traffic Locos

[GrimShady]

Anyone seen this or has more info?

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/f...nces-plans-to-order-ten-mixed-traffic-diesels

Direct Rail Services expects to place an order for ten brand new mixed traffic diesel locomotives by March next year.

Speaking to RAIL at the Crewe Gresty Bridge open day on July 21, Managing Director Debbie Francis explained that DRS has progressed through analysis of pre-qualification submissions for ten new mixed traffic diesel locomotives that were the subject of an advertisement in the Official Journal of the European Union last year.

She was tight-lipped about who will be invited to tender for the contract...

 

[Skymonster]

From what I hear, DRS might not be the only TOC in the market for a few mixed traffic locos! And might not be the next to place an order!

 

[a_c_skinner]

It is to haul the Mk4s, wherever they go... Not a wholly flippant reply. Actually from the article it sounds as if they want to take their old stuff out of service. I assume it will turn out to be more 68s, modified for the latest Euro-stage.

 

[dgl]

Again if 68's are available in compliant form then there really is no other sensible option esp. when fleet commonality and driver/fitter familiarity is taken into account, they are also the only recent UK spec mixed traffic loco.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Presumably OJEC needs to be satisfied! Can the 68 meet current standards? I've a vague recollection that a reworking of the exhaust system is possible. (Mind you they said popping a diesel under the 319 was the work of a jiffy)

 

[GrimShady]

And someone was telling me on another thread that there are no new diesel locos planned.

But I'll leave that one alone.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Thinking about this has DRS seen a market for some old coaches being in use for a few years? The new locos would probably come available for freight use when their "heritage" locos were finally put out to grass as the old coaches have to go to the happy hunting ground.

 

[GrimShady]

Thinking about this has DRS seen a market for some old coaches being in use for a few years? The new locos would probably come available for freight use when their "heritage" locos were finally put out to grass as the old coaches have to go to the happy hunting ground.

Wasn't there talk recently of the Class 20s finally going?

 

[Bertie the bus]

The 20s have effectively gone. They are only used a couple of months per year and only on RHTTs. Unless restrictions are lifted between Barnsley and Sheffield (or NR use MPVs on the Yorkshire circuit?) they probably won't be withdrawn completely.

 

[GrimShady]

One wonders what the type rating of these new locos may be? If it turns out they're not 68s.

 

[gingertom]

One wonders what the type rating of these new locos may be? If it turns out they're not 68s.

The 68 comes from a family with 3 engine sizes, the biggest, 16-cylinder, being fitted in the 68 and the smallest, the 8 cylinder, in the 88. I'm wondering if the fitting of the 12 cylinder version would create enough space for the exhaust after-treatment and not lose too much performance?

 

[43096]

The 68 comes from a family with 3 engine sizes, the biggest, 16-cylinder, being fitted in the 68 and the smallest, the 8 cylinder, in the 88. I'm wondering if the fitting of the 12 cylinder version would create enough space for the exhaust after-treatment and not lose too much performance?

The 68 has the V16 C175 engine. Class 88 has the C27 engine. It’s not the same type of engine - a V8 C175 would be around 1800hp, which is about twice the 88’s diesel output.

In addition the V16 C175 is not the biggest variant of that type. A V20 is offered and is used in EMD’s F125 passenger loco.

 

[gingertom]

The 68 has the V16 C175 engine. Class 88 has the C27 engine. It’s not the same type of engine - a V8 C175 would be around 1800hp, which is about twice the 88’s diesel output.

In addition the V16 C175 is not the biggest variant of that type. A V20 is offered and is used in EMD’s F125 passenger loco.

the V20 would be too big to fit Vossloh's Eurolight platform but it would be interesting to see it in a class 60 body hauling the heavy stuff. An 1800hp emissions-compliant loco could be useful and type 3s haven't been ruled out. You couldn't call such a machine a 68 though, even though it would look like one.

 

[gingertom]

the V20 would be too big to fit Vossloh's Eurolight platform but it would be interesting to see it in a class 60 body hauling the heavy stuff. An 1800hp emissions-compliant loco could be useful and type 3s haven't been ruled out. You couldn't call such a machine a 68 though, even though it would look like one.

According to Wiki there's a 12 cylinder version of the Cat-175 engine with an output of 2.3MW 3080hp that can be deployed in the Eurolight. it's this unit I'm suggesting could create the space for the exhaust treatment.

 

[USRailFan]

the V20 would be too big to fit Vossloh's Eurolight platform but it would be interesting to see it in a class 60 body hauling the heavy stuff. An 1800hp emissions-compliant loco could be useful and type 3s haven't been ruled out. You couldn't call such a machine a 68 though, even though it would look like one.

If they wanted to keep with the '8' moniker, I guess Class 38...

 

[GrimShady]

Type 3s would be most useful for various jobs providing the RA is right. CS should have went for something like this in place of the silly 73/9 order.

 

[jopsuk]

Type 3s would be most useful for various jobs providing the RA is right. CS should have went for something like this in place of the silly 73/9 order.

I would have thought that GBRf will have at the time looked at what was available and what could have been available before preparing their tender.

 

[Journeyman]

And someone was telling me on another thread that there are no new diesel locos planned.

But I'll leave that one alone.

Loco hauled trains are STILL not coming back to the West Highland.

 

[DarloRich]

And someone was telling me on another thread that there are no new diesel locos planned.

But I'll leave that one alone.

DRS obviously feel the vast cost associated with contracting, designing, building, testing, accepting and bringing a new diesel loco into service are off set by the savings made in removing very old locomotives and their support costs from their roster.

Type 3s would be most useful for various jobs providing the RA is right. CS should have went for something like this in place of the silly 73/9 order.

What is it and this board desire for a new type 3 loco? What is the point? Surely you go for one design that can deliver as much of the company work load, on its own, as possible.

 

[GrimShady]

DRS obviously feel the vast cost associated with contracting, designing, building, testing, accepting and bringing a new diesel loco into service are off set by the savings made in removing very old locomotives and their support costs from their roster.



What is it and this board desire for a new type 3 loco? What is the point? Surely you go for one design that can deliver as much of the company work load, on its own, as possible.

Makes sense, no point whipping old horses to death.

Lighter engine for route avavilablity maybe?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Precisely. There is always going to be a requirement to run test trains and departmentals over all sorts of routes. You can make do and mend or re-engine as much as you like but a time will eventually come when a new smaller loco is required to replace the remaining 37s.

 

[DarloRich]

Lighter engine for route avavilablity maybe?

Precisely. There is always going to be a requirement to run test trains and departmentals over all sorts of routes. You can make do and mend or re-engine as much as you like but a time will eventually come when a new smaller loco is required to replace the remaining 37s.

I take that point but how often, really, is that an issue? How many absolute prohibitions are there? You cant design a fleet to cover the occasional requirement

 

[squizzler]

I don't think the new locos should have CAT engines. Rather they should buy British and go with the revised design of VP185 being pushed by MAN and featured in Modern Railway's July "Pan Up". Available in 12 and 18 cylinder variants.

 

[GrimShady]

Loco hauled trains are STILL not coming back to the West Highland.

LOL

 

[Skymonster]

By my reckoning there are between 30 and 40 class 37s - plus some un-modded 73s - active on the national network with Colas, DRS, Network Rail, Europhoenix / ROG and GBRf (leaving aside WCRC). These organisations had opportunities to order new locos (more in DRS' case) to replace their class 3s when the 68s were available, and yet chose not to do so. Indeed further 37s have been restored for mainline use by DRS (some at significant cost), Europhoenix and Colas since then. That says to me that there is still a market for type 3s. Sure class 5s can do some of the work but why have 37s been brought back over the last few years if new and bigger / commonality is better?

Maybe only now, with the supply of redundant 37s suitable for restoration dwindling (and with the risk of further emissions legislation as inferred in the other DRS re-engineering topic possibly constraining their operation before they reach end of life), are new locos in this class becoming viable. With each of the major operators potentially facing a similar conundrum the production run for a new type 3 could approach or even equal that of the 68. Yes, at a cost, but the 68 doesn't meet the rules now either, and re-engineering that for future orders will come at a price too.

 

[delticdave]

By my reckoning there are between 30 and 40 class 37s - plus some un-modded 73s - active on the national network with Colas, DRS, Network Rail, Europhoenix / ROG and GBRf (leaving aside WCRC). These organisations had opportunities to order new locos (more in DRS' case) to replace their class 3s when the 68s were available, end yet chose not to do so. Indeed further 37s have been restored for mainline use by DRS (some at significant cost), Europhoenix and Colas since then. That says to me that there is still a market for class 3s. Sure class 5s can do some of the work but why have 37s been brought back over the last few years if new and bigger / commonality is better?

Maybe only now, with the supply of redundant 37s suitable for restoration dwindling (and with the risk of further emissions legislation as inferred in the other DRS re-engineering topic constraining their operation before they reached end of life), are new locos in this class becoming viable. With each of the major operators potentially facing a similar conundrum the production run for a new class 3 could approach or even equal that of the 68. Yes, at a cost, but the 68 doesn't meet the rules now either, and re-engineering that for future orders will come at a price too.

Is there any point in replacing the 37's EE V12 with something more modern / cleaner / quieter & possibly more powerful?
Assuming of course that said 37's were worth keeping, (corrosion/ old wiring, etc.)

 

[GusB]

Loco hauled trains are STILL not coming back to the West Highland.

If you want proper West Highland diesel nostalgia, we really should be looking at a modern day equivalent of a Class 27 (or if you want the reliability issues, a 21)

 

[LOL The Irony]

Presumably OJEC needs to be satisfied! Can the 68 meet current standards? I've a vague recollection that a reworking of the exhaust system is possible.

Well everyone said the 195's wouldn't fit within the loading guage.

I don't think the new locos should have CAT engines. Rather they should buy British and go with the revised design of VP185 being pushed by MAN and featured in Modern Railway's July "Pan Up". Available in 12 and 18 cylinder variants.

Would buying local allow them to be exempt to these emission standards?

 

[jopsuk]

I don't think the new locos should have CAT engines. Rather they should buy British and go with the revised design of VP185 being pushed by MAN and featured in Modern Railway's July "Pan Up". Available in 12 and 18 cylinder variants.

MAN ES are very much "a German company with a factory in the UK"

 

[GrimShady]

Is there any point in replacing the 37's EE V12 with something more modern / cleaner / quieter & possibly more powerful?
Assuming of course that said 37's were worth keeping, (corrosion/ old wiring, etc.)

Why CS didn't rebuild 37s or even 47s instead of the silly 73/9s Ill never know. 73/9 RA isn't great, why keep the third rail capability for locos that will be working mainly on non third rail lines?

Maybe these new locos would be more suitable with ETS capable of CS Mk5.