Ex-GWR HSTs and Class 90s bought for charter use

[XCTurbostar]

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/hsts-bought-for-charter-use

Redundant High Speed Trains have been bought by Locomotive Services Ltd, and will enter traffic next year.

The company has also purchased two Class 90s, as it seeks to expand its existing operations. The purchase of only one HST has been confirmed, although RAIL understands that a deal is in place for more. It is buying the HSTs and Class 90s from Porterbrook, which declined to comment when asked by RAIL about the deal.

LSL owner Jeremy Hosking said: “Locomotive Services Limited are pleased to announce that we have recently entered into an agreement that will see our operational fleet expand from 2019.

“The inclusion of a High Speed Train [HST], Mk 3 coaching stock and Class 90 locomotives in our fleet will enable the continued expansion of our operation, while protecting our heritage assets from excessive use. We will be providing further details in due course.”

It is currently unclear how the HSTs will be used, but RAIL sources have suggested the company is targeting the luxury market with First Class and catering to be offered.

The HSTs will be those sent off-lease by Great Western Railway. Currently no Porterbrook-owned HSTs have been returned by GWR, although this will happen later in the year as more Intercity Express Trains are introduced.

Mk3 Slam doors will live on!

 

[DarloRich]

interesting news

 

[mushroomchow]

Excellent news, though I had to do a double-take with the title then - "when did GWR end up with 90s?"

The HSTs, especially the MTU engined ones, have plenty of life left in them and are more than rapid enough to cope on the modern railway - they're a perfect fit for the spot hire and charter market.

 

[cactustwirly]

Excellent news, though I had to do a double-take with the title then - "when did GWR end up with 90s?"

The HSTs, especially the MTU engined ones, have plenty of life left in them and are more than rapid enough to cope on the modern railway - they're a perfect fit for the spot hire and charter market.

Really?
They're 40 years old, with some corrosion issues.
And completely unsuitable for a 21st century railway.
They are brilliant trains, but 'all good things must come to an end' and that time is sooner rather than later for the HSTs

 

[Kite159]

Really?
They're 40 years old, with some corrosion issues.
And completely unsuitable for a 21st century railway.
They are brilliant trains, but 'all good things must come to an end' and that time is sooner rather than later for the HSTs

Better than the even older Mk1 & Mk2s currently floating around for the charter use market in various states of repair.

Having a HST would allow the charter service to use a faster path on a busy mainline, and if the interior is done up nicely (2+2 layout mostly in tables aligned with the windows) then 'Bert & Ada' won't care if it's a HST or a Mk1 on a little day trip from Kings Cross to Durham Cathedral

 

[sprinterguy]

Really?
They're 40 years old, with some corrosion issues.
And completely unsuitable for a 21st century railway.
They are brilliant trains, but 'all good things must come to an end' and that time is sooner rather than later for the HSTs

The charter market is still operating sixty year old mark 1 stock, limited to 75mph and renowned for corrosion problems. In that regard, though I've expressed scepticism towards the suitability of HST sets for charter use in the past, a limited number of HSTs could still have a long and fruitful future ahead of them.

 

[Mag_seven]

Having a HST would allow the charter service to use a faster path on a busy mainline, and if the interior is done up nicely (2+2 layout mostly in tables aligned with the windows) then 'Bert & Ada' won't care if it's a HST or a Mk1 on a little day trip from Kings Cross to Durham Cathedral

And of course it won't be as if they will be thundering up and down the main line on a daily basis either.

 

[kje7812]

The charter market is still operating sixty year old mark 1 stock, limited to 75mph and renowned for corrosion problems. In that regard, though I've expressed scepticism towards the suitability of HST sets for charter use in the past, a limited number of HSTs could still have a long and fruitful future ahead of them.

Only if there's a steam loco on the front. Diesel hauled tours with Mark 1's can do up to 100mph if all the bogies are the right design.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Porterbrook owned GWR Powercars are:

43053
43056
43063
43069
43070
43071
43078
43079
43086
43087
43088
43091
43092
43156
43159
43160
43161
43162
43180
43193
43195 (Accident Damaged)
43196
43197

Almost all of which were originally Rio Midland Mainline powercars.

If 43087 is acquired and doesn't end up in Hornby livery ill be disappointed

 

[The_Train]

There will always be the cynical ones but no matter how you look at this, it's excellent news. The HST has been the backbone of the UK mainline for years and years and it would have been a travesty if it just disappeared but we can rest easy now, knowing at least one set will continue to work the mainline. Here's hoping this gets a few other companies interested and a few more sets get snapped up

 

[Journeyman]

There will always be the cynical ones but no matter how you look at this, it's excellent news. The HST has been the backbone of the UK mainline for years and years and it would have been a travesty if it just disappeared but we can rest easy now, knowing at least one set will continue to work the mainline. Here's hoping this gets a few other companies interested and a few more sets get snapped up

Given that the HST has been easily the most successful train BR ever designed, I think it's a good idea to have a couple of sets available for charters, and I hope it'll happen. I'd love to see a full set in original livery. For occasional use, it should work quite well, and not be too difficult to look after and operate.

In terms of daily service, though, their days are numbered and it's time they were gracefully retired.

 

[mushroomchow]

Better than the even older Mk1 & Mk2s currently floating around for the charter use market in various states of repair.

Having a HST would allow the charter service to use a faster path on a busy mainline, and if the interior is done up nicely (2+2 layout mostly in tables aligned with the windows) then 'Bert & Ada' won't care if it's a HST or a Mk1 on a little day trip from Kings Cross to Durham Cathedral

Pretty much this and what others have said - they're an objectively more future-proofed option for charter and spot hire than anything the likes of DRS or WCRC currently operate. If Porterbrook / Wabtec pull their finger out there will be a number of plug-door sets in operation eventually too, which will increase flexibility for those sets post-2020.

I'm not some blinkered-eyed gricer - I know everything has a shelf life - but there's absolutely no reason that many in that sector of the railway won't be very much interested in obtaining HSTs to allow them to either retire or reduce the burden on their (even) older rolling stock. These are 125mph capable trains with (in the MTU's case) engines that are less than 20 years old, almost "go-anywhere" route availability and for the most part full rakes of carriages included.

Frankly, I think the interested parties are going to have more trouble getting the Mk. 3s up to standard than they are the HSTs themselves.

 

[43096]

Porterbrook owned GWR Powercars are:

43053
43056
43063
43069
43070
43071
43078
43079
43086
43087
43088
43091
43092
43156
43159
43160
43161
43162
43180
43193
43195 (Accident Damaged)
43196
43197

Almost all of which were originally Rio Midland Mainline powercars.

If 43087 is acquired and doesn't end up in Hornby livery ill be disappointed

43092 is not a Porterbrook power car, it is First Rail Holdings owned.
43195 has been written off and the remains sold to First for spare parts.

 

[43096]

If Porterbrook / Wabtec pull their finger out there will be a number of plug-door sets in operation eventually too, which will increase flexibility for those sets post-2020.

I'm not understanding the Porterbrook reference.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

if the interior is done up nicely (2+2 layout mostly in tables aligned with the windows)

The spacing of the original first class interiors was exclusively tables aligned with the windows, admittedly 2+1. For reasons best known to themselves, BR only designed one layout of Mk3s, so the window spacing for standard class was out of alignment with the seating. The notion that seating bays should align with windows was then seemingly dropped for ever.

 

[43096]

For reasons best known to themselves, BR only designed one layout of Mk3s, so the window spacing for standard class was out of alignment with the seating.

The reason is very simple: it gave one common bodyshell type, with consequent savings in terms of manufacturing costs. It has also made converting vehicles between types much easier over the years.

 

[DarloRich]

I assume the class 90's allow steam specials to be hauled from, say, London to Carlisle by electric rather than diesel offering a better chance of finding a path.

 

[Kite159]

I assume the class 90's allow steam specials to be hauled from, say, London to Carlisle by electric rather than diesel offering a better chance of finding a path.

A bit like how there is a 86 hauled service on Saturday mornings which changes locos at Carnforth (or at the curve south of Preston giving access towards the Blackburn line from the south)

 

[DarloRich]

A bit like how there is a 86 hauled service on Saturday mornings which changes locos at Carnforth (or at the curve south of Preston giving access towards the Blackburn line from the south)

Cumbrian Mountain Express - A Railway Touring Company job. Euston to Carnforth or Preston. I often see it when i have an early start on a Saturday,

 

[LOL The Irony]

So what will they use with the 90's?

 

[kje7812]

So what will they use with the 90's?

IIRC LSL do have some Mark 2's. At the moment the steam set is a mix of mark 1 and 2, but the reported plan is when enough mark 1's are available (from restoration/refurbishment) they will form the set for steam and the marks 2's will be used for diesel tours, and presumably electric ones.

 

[Journeyman]

The reason is very simple: it gave one common bodyshell type, with consequent savings in terms of manufacturing costs. It has also made converting vehicles between types much easier over the years.

True. Some seven-window aircon Mark 2 Open Firsts were converted to standards, and the window alignment on those was terrible.

 

[tbtc]

The HSTs, especially the MTU engined ones, have plenty of life left in them and are more than rapid enough to cope on the modern railway - they're a perfect fit for the spot hire and charter market.

Charters, sure, but they'll have to spend a lot of money upgrading them to bring them up to post-2020 standards if they are expecting to hire them out to TOCs for regular service.

As bus enthusiasts will tell you, it's easy to buy junk from a scrap yard but hard to get it refurbished - we're already seeing problems in making old stock accessible for modern passengers - I hope Locomotive Services Ltd have deep pockets.

The spacing of the original first class interiors was exclusively tables aligned with the windows, admittedly 2+1. For reasons best known to themselves, BR only designed one layout of Mk3s, so the window spacing for standard class was out of alignment with the seating. The notion that seating bays should align with windows was then seemingly dropped for ever.

You're spoiling people's idea that privatisation is to blame for windows/ seats not lining up with your facts...

 

[158722]

90001/002 are the two locos quoted elsewhere.

 

[XCTurbostar]

90001/002 are the two locos quoted elsewhere.

The oldest two? Interesting. Surprised it wasn’t 14 and 15

 

[Mag_seven]

The oldest two? Interesting. Surprised it wasn’t 14 and 15

I doubt there is that much difference.

 

[alexl92]

IIRC LSL do have some Mark 2's. At the moment the steam set is a mix of mark 1 and 2, but the reported plan is when enough mark 1's are available (from restoration/refurbishment) they will form the set for steam and the marks 2's will be used for diesel tours, and presumably electric ones.

Their MK2s are currently in blood and custard livery, and all diesels are in BR two-tone green. Given that the 90s were launched in IC livery, which wouldn’t fit with either, could we see a 90 in a fictional pseudo-BR Green livery?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Their MK2s are currently in blood and custard livery, and all diesels are in BR two-tone green. Given that the 90s were launched in IC livery, which wouldn’t fit with either, could we see a 90 in a fictional pseudo-BR Green livery?

A 90 in large-logo blue would look fantastic... if any of our more PhotoShop-skilled members are a little bored, there's a pint at the West Riding* pub at Dewsbury station in it for you!

*=Batley Tap Room and Huddersfield King's Head either!

 

[Skymonster]

Charters, sure, but they'll have to spend a lot of money upgrading them to bring them up to post-2020 standards if they are expecting to hire them out to TOCs for regular service.

Thus far LSL have not been in the spot hire market - I strongly suspect the HST(s) will be dedicated to upmarket charters. And as the Rail article says, the 90s will supplement the heritage locos much as West Coast use an electric loco for the southern parts of some of its WCML charters.

As bus enthusiasts will tell you, it's easy to buy junk from a scrap yard but hard to get it refurbished - we're already seeing problems in making old stock accessible for modern passengers - I hope Locomotive Services Ltd have deep pockets.

There's a world of difference between a few enthusiasts bandying together to buy a clapped out bus and what Jeremy Hosking is doing. LSL looks set to at least match, if not exceed, what WCRC have done in the charter market over the last few years.

 

[Darandio]

There's a world of difference between a few enthusiasts bandying together to buy a clapped out bus and what Jeremy Hosking is doing. LSL looks set to at least match, if not exceed, what WCRC have done in the charter market over the last few years.

Repeated bad practice and disdain to the point that many mainline drivers don't want them sharing the same rails? Hopefully LSL don't follow that path with 125mph stock.