A bag left on a train - it costs £24 to get it back

[12guard4]

They can't put it on the next train because it's 2018. If something were to go missing the train crew would be sued and accused of theft.

 

[whhistle]

Some thoughts:

1) There is no widly accepted by all TOCs system for Lost Property.

2) Some train managers may think they're being helpful by handing lost propeorty off at the closest staffed station they can. Others prefer to follow the line of handing it in to the terminating station.

3) If a member of station staff puts the lost property on the train, someone has to take responsibility for it. What happens if it gets damaged en route? If nobody takes responsibility, what happens if it gets damaged en route? Or lost even further?

There's no easy way to solve the problem, but I completely understand why lost property isn't regularly transported by train.
But at the same time, I am glad to see most train managers who DO transport things, even just a little way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Excess Baggage Company fees are comparatively very steep - I suppose that's how they make their money on station rental charges.

Though I'll be honest - I would rather have them there with their hefty fees than not there at all. Not so much for lost property (I've only left something on a train once and didn't get it back anyway), but for left luggage facilities which are woefully lacking in the UK[1], and if they couldn't be made profitable would no doubt be *even more* lacking.

[1] Yes, I do know why.

 

[DelW]

It's not clear whether the passenger asked for the bag to be sent to Bristol, and keeping it in Birmingham is counter to XC's published lost property policy.

The original report says that the bag was being kept at Birmingham lost property office, and the passenger wanted it sent to Bristol by train at no cost to them, rather than by courier for £24.

If you leave something on a train, it's very likely it will end up somewhere other than your destination. In that case, I'd expect the choice to be either to collect it from wherever it is for free or for a small admin fee, or to have it sent to me at my expense. Since the railway no longer operates a parcel service, that's likely to mean a courier, and £24 for a bag from Birmingham to Bristol doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

 

[Journeyman]

They can't put it on the next train because it's 2018. If something were to go missing the train crew would be sued and accused of theft.

This is absolutely the biggest problem, and I'm sure plenty of people who have lost stuff try it on with claiming there was a huge wad of cash in their wallet/bag. This makes a lot of staff terrified of handling lost items.

While plenty of staff will go to reasonable lengths to locate owners and return property, they're generally keen to get stuff out of their possession and logged by the nearest lost property office as soon as possible, because of the risk of loss or being accused of nicking stuff. It's quite stressful to deal with, hence a need for a system which records, tracks and securely returns things. It isn't cheap to run.

 

[xotGD]

I have two contrasting experiences.

1. Left my rucksack on Heathrow Connect when the train was terminated short at Hayes and we had to get a bus to the airport. On reaching the airport, went to the station to report it. It had just got back to Paddington, so they put it back on the train and the guard handed it to me at Heathrow.

2. Left a scarf on a 333 at Leeds. I emailed Northern, who advised me to contact the Lost Property place at Leeds, which I did. Never heard back. Their fee would probably exceed the value of the scarf anyway.

 

[adamello]

I'm glad I'm not the only one to wonder that, surely the word 'personal' is superfluous?

I once was leaving the train at Waterloo, and was prepared to take the buffet trolley with me, until they said I should only take my personal items

 

[jimbo99]

My aging mother has left stuff in shops, planes, customs areas, trains, stations. Only the railway has ever charged her for returning her own property. Just another way the railway is a bit different and upsets its customers. (I accept from the above the likes of Easyjet might also charge. But that said, they didn't charge me when I left something with them.)

When I left a wallet in Tescos a few months back, I was rather impressed with the help and care they showed - checking very carefully that I was indeed the true owner by asking some questions. And a friend of mine lost something with Emirates, and they got it to her despite the complexity of taking something through security on her behalf.

No doubt the railway industry will claim it's a special case (as it usually does) because of its very nature: security, people travelling more likely to leave things behind etc. But I'm sure many will see it as "profiteering out of someone's misfortune" and yet another thing that makes railways nasty.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Excess Baggage Company fees are comparatively very steep - I suppose that's how they make their money on station rental charges.

As I said earlier, it is exactly this.
Nothing at all to do with the actual costs involved regarding admin, security or processing of the lost luggage and everything to do with outsourcing and other companies having to make their profit.

 

[Antman]

My aging mother has left stuff in shops, planes, customs areas, trains, stations. Only the railway has ever charged her for returning her own property. Just another way the railway is a bit different and upsets its customers. (I accept from the above the likes of Easyjet might also charge. But that said, they didn't charge me when I left something with them.)

When I left a wallet in Tescos a few months back, I was rather impressed with the help and care they showed - checking very carefully that I was indeed the true owner by asking some questions. And a friend of mine lost something with Emirates, and they got it to her despite the complexity of taking something through security on her behalf.

No doubt the railway industry will claim it's a special case (as it usually does) because of its very nature: security, people travelling more likely to leave things behind etc. But I'm sure many will see it as "profiteering out of someone's misfortune" and yet another thing that makes railways nasty.

Exactly my point about my daughter leaving her phone at a shopping centre, staff looked after it until she returned to collect it but no charge. All sorts gets left behind in my local pub, coats, umbrellas, phones etc. They're locked in a cupboard until people claim them, again no charge.

 

[Esker-pades]

Exactly my point about my daughter leaving her phone at a shopping centre, staff looked after it until she returned to collect it but no charge. All sorts gets left behind in my local pub, coats, umbrellas, phones etc. They're locked in a cupboard until people claim them, again no charge.

But the railways are so much bigger and more complicated than a pub or Bluewater. Your suggestion would effectively mean there would only be one central point for lost property. That location, wherever it is placed would be awful for most people in the UK. You can't just put 6000 items in a single cupboard (however big it is) because the single cupboard would have to serve the entire UK. Not going to work.

 

[Antman]

But the railways are so much bigger and more complicated than a pub or Bluewater. Your suggestion would effectively mean there would only be one central point for lost property. That location, wherever it is placed would be awful for most people in the UK. You can't just put 6000 items in a single cupboard (however big it is) because the single cupboard would have to serve the entire UK. Not going to work.

Not really, most stations would be able to store such items, if they're not claimed within a certain period of time dispose of them to a charity or whatever.

 

[Esker-pades]

Not really, most stations would be able to store such items, if they're not claimed within a certain period of time dispose of them to a charity or whatever.

The person left his item on a train and not a station. Trains stop at multiple stations. Most staffed stations already have the facilities to look after lost property.

 

[DelW]

Exactly my point about my daughter leaving her phone at a shopping centre, staff looked after it until she returned to collect it but no charge. All sorts gets left behind in my local pub, coats, umbrellas, phones etc. They're locked in a cupboard until people claim them, again no charge.

But according to the report, the passenger didn't want to return to collect it, they wanted it to be sent from Birmingham to Bristol at no charge.

 

[Wombat]

Could be worse: a hotel in Amsterdam offered to return my wife's iPod for 110 euros.

 

[Deafdoggie]

My aging mother has left stuff in shops, planes, customs areas, trains, stations. Only the railway has ever charged her for returning her own property. Just another way the railway is a bit different and upsets its customers. (I accept from the above the likes of Easyjet might also charge. But that said, they didn't charge me when I left something with them.)

When I left a wallet in Tescos a few months back, I was rather impressed with the help and care they showed - checking very carefully that I was indeed the true owner by asking some questions. And a friend of mine lost something with Emirates, and they got it to her despite the complexity of taking something through security on her behalf.

No doubt the railway industry will claim it's a special case (as it usually does) because of its very nature: security, people travelling more likely to leave things behind etc. But I'm sure many will see it as "profiteering out of someone's misfortune" and yet another thing that makes railways nasty.

Most people on here have said an item you collect on the railway is free. The difference is, people leave things on trains, and they move. Like it or not, there is then a cost to reunite them then. Leave something in Tesco, and Tesco doesn't move.

 

[al78]

Exactly my point about my daughter leaving her phone at a shopping centre, staff looked after it until she returned to collect it but no charge. All sorts gets left behind in my local pub, coats, umbrellas, phones etc. They're locked in a cupboard until people claim them, again no charge.

I've done something similar, once left my bag on a local bus. I realised it almost immediately after getting off the bus but not before the bus had moved on. I was able to go to one of the bus depots where the bag had been kept, no charge.

 

[EM2]

I was able to go to one of the bus depots where the bag had been kept, no charge.

Again, you went to get it. The person in the story didn't want to do that.

 

[Bantamzen]

I don't think £29 is a reasonable charge. For any such charge to be enforceable there has to be an agency of necessity - as clearly there is no contract in place. In such cases, only such costs as are reasonable may be incurred; sending an item of luggage to another place via an expensive means of transport is far from reasonable in my opinion.

At the very least they should have contacted the owner and asked if he wanted to pick up the bag himself or whether he would prefer to have it sent somewhere. Just randomly sending the bag to Birmingham means that, in line with the principles from ENE Kos 1 Ltd v Petroleo Brasileiro SA [2012] 2 AC 164 and Great Northern Railway Co v Swaffield (1874) LR 9 Ex 132, only such charges as are reasonably required can be recovered.

Why not? Someone leaving an item or piece of luggage behind can potentially led to security concerns (indeed many luggage storage areas in stations now have x-ray machines for checking against potential terrorist attacks), staff time dealing & handling lost items. If you are going to talk in terms of contacts, then perhaps the passenger has broken that contract with the operator in failing to check their belongings? Operators regularly remind passengers to check their belongings, and warn that unattended items may be removed or destroyed, so charging for retrieval, handling, storage & recovery seems quite reasonable in my opinion. Try leaving some hand luggage on an aircraft for example, and a recovery cost might be the least of your worries, as the security services might well be taking you to one side for some serious questioning!

Quite frankly, and I've done it myself and had to pay, charging someone quickly focuses your mind & you are far more careful next time.

 

[Adlington]

Again, you went to get it. The person in the story didn't want to do that.

Where in the story does it say what the forgetful person wanted (or not wanted) to do?

 

[EM2]

Where in the story does it say what the forgetful person wanted (or not wanted) to do?

Well, they were told it would likely be going to Bristol. It was sent to Birmingham. They are complaining that they have to pay a courier fee to get it back. That very strongly suggests that they did not wish to travel to collect their item.

 

[swaldman]

The arguments about "The cost will prevent you from leaving it" seem bizzare. I don't decide from moment to moment whether to forget my belongings because of a cost scale. The key word here is forgot.

So, somebody has accidentally left something somewhere. If they can't collect it in person, it must be couriered to them. It seems entirely reasonable to charge for this.

Additionally there is some staff time, storage space, etc., involved. It's arguable whether this should be charged for, or whether it's a matter of goodwill... but in this fragmented world, the goodwill is hard to apportion - if you leave it on a X-country train, and it arrives at a National Rail station, and you enquire about it at a Virgin station..... yeah, goodwill doesn't seem to be currency any more, so it costs.

This leaves a remaining question of whether it is reasonable for a company to profit from this person's forgetfulness / misfortune, on top of the costs of dealing with it. I'd like to think not, but given that lost property seems to have been outsourced, that's inevitable....

 

[Bantamzen]

The arguments about "The cost will prevent you from leaving it" seem bizzare. I don't decide from moment to moment whether to forget my belongings because of a cost scale. The key word here is forgot.

So, somebody has accidentally left something somewhere. If they can't collect it in person, it must be couriered to them. It seems entirely reasonable to charge for this.

Additionally there is some staff time, storage space, etc., involved. It's arguable whether this should be charged for, or whether it's a matter of goodwill... but in this fragmented world, the goodwill is hard to apportion - if you leave it on a X-country train, and it arrives at a National Rail station, and you enquire about it at a Virgin station..... yeah, goodwill doesn't seem to be currency any more, so it costs.

This leaves a remaining question of whether it is reasonable for a company to profit from this person's forgetfulness / misfortune, on top of the costs of dealing with it. I'd like to think not, but given that lost property seems to have been outsourced, that's inevitable....

Believe me, as someone who once had to travel to Liverpool (from Cheshire) to pick up a bag & pay for it, that sticks in your mind. So its not as daft as it might seem, even though its not the primary reason for the charges.

 

[tsr]

There are plenty of places where the Excess Baggage people charge a fee but the TOC’s station and onboard staff do the hard work of finding, retrieving, logging and reporting the item. I can’t say I’ve ever heard of the third-party lost property companies on my patch actually reuniting somebody with their belongings. One wonders, therefore, how much gets auctioned off without a second thought. (I know someone who spent a lot of time effectively running his own small business dealing with onwards sales of items recovered in transport-related lost property auctions... and he only bought stuff he found interesting!).

As a result, a lot of local stations have unofficial lost property hubs and internal procedures, and everyone gets very disgruntled when the special local procedure is interrupted in any way. I’ve been known to operate trains which have been busier with transfers of lost property and internal mail than with passengers, and we’re talking the last few years, not immediately post privatisation or anything.

Unless it’s suspicious or dangerous or perishable, you therefore do find that a station in the area will keep hold of the item for a day or two. It may not be a terminus - there are plenty of lines with quiet and unstaffed termini.

 

[al78]

Again, you went to get it. The person in the story didn't want to do that.

Ok, if the person was given the opportunity to collect it and instead asked for it to be delivered, charging for delivery seems reasonable to me, given it was that persons fault, and it is not really fair to impose costs on someone else through carelessness. If it were me, I wouldn't like paying it, but would accept it and be grateful to be reunited with my belongings.

 

[Journeyman]

Believe me, as someone who once had to travel to Liverpool (from Cheshire) to pick up a bag & pay for it, that sticks in your mind. So its not as daft as it might seem, even though its not the primary reason for the charges.

Quite agree, I had to pay for something I left on a train once...and I've never done it since. The hassle and expense made me extra careful.

Likewise, I've only ever put petrol in a diesel car once!

 

[mark-h]

Yes, it is [free] on LNER. I could not say for certain regarding XC.

Not on services which terminate at Network Rail Stations (King’s Cross, Leeds, Edinburgh or Glasgow Central) where the arriving lost property is handed to www.lostproperty.org (Excess Baggage (Airports) Ltd) or other stations in Scotland which are handled by Scotrail (may charge [their website does not elaborate on charges]) and only offer collection from Glasgow Queen Street.

From their website

Did you lose it on a train?
Any items found onboard one of our services will usually find their way to the end of the line.

If your train's journey ended at King’s Cross, Leeds, Edinburgh or Glasgow Central, these stations are managed by Network Rail, so you'll need to head to www.lostproperty.org to see if your item has been found and handed in.

If your train's journey finished at a station managed by our teams (Peterborough, Grantham, Newark Northgate, Retford, Doncaster, Wakefield Westgate, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle, Sunderland, Berwick on Tweed) and your item is found by one of our lovely people, it will be held at that station for seven days.

After seven days, it’ll be sent to our central Lost Property office in Newark Northgate.

Our team in Newark can be contacted on 01302 362 175 and they'll be delighted to help return your items if they have been found.

Alternatively you can contact us by:

Email: customers@lner.co.uk

Phone: 0330 024 0215

Was your train headed to Scotland?
If your train was on its way to Scotland (other than Edinburgh Waverley), any lost property will be handled by Scotrail, who have more details on how to locate your item on their website.

Think you lost it at a station?
If you think you left your item at a station, we would recommend contacting that station first. Details of all the stations in the UK can be found here.

If you've tried the above and haven't had any luck, fill out this form. Tell us a bit more about what it is and where you think it might be so we can try and help you find your item.

 

[underbank]

The arguments about "The cost will prevent you from leaving it" seem bizzare. I don't decide from moment to moment whether to forget my belongings because of a cost scale. The key word here is forgot.

It's one of life's lessons - learning to deal with the consequences of your actions. When there are no adverse consequences, people just carry on blissfully relying on others to dig them out of the holes they create. When there are consequences, people start to learn from their mistakes and take greater care, whether it's being more careful with their belongings, or other things such as remembering deadlines, looking after their body/health, driving more carefully etc.

 

[sd0733]

They can't put it on the next train because it's 2018. If something were to go missing the train crew would be sued and accused of theft.

Exactly correct. I offered to take a laptop on my train a few years back to a station a few stations further back along the route.....A few days later a phone call from BTP about missing money from said laptop bag.
They watched the cctv on my train, the other train and the station and was a chancer making it up. If I want the cctv its never been watched.
After learning the hard way, never ever ever again will Lost property be transported on my train! I know not all people are like it but it's a small minority who like everything else ruin it for the rest.
On the other hand I do try and hand things in at TOC lost property such as Crewe, Stoke, Milton Keynes over Liverpool and Birmingham to try and avoid the extra cost at excess baggage company offices

 

[Bensonby]

This is something I’ve acually previously thought about a fair bit, because I’m sad and find this sort of thing interesting.

If I found some lost property and refused to return it unless I got a fee/reward I would be guilty of theft. I would, however, be entitled to not return it unless I was paid my fare expanses (such as a courier fee).

The railways are somewhat unique in that the right to make charges is included in the NRCOT (or at least it was in the NRCOC when I researched this). Therefore, as a passenger agrees to the NRCOT as a contract when they buy a ticket the railway companies/Network Rail are entitled to act as they do.

That having been said, I’ve always wondered what would happen if a person not travelling, and not having bought a ticket,(therefore not agreeing to the NRCOT) leaves something behind on a concourse etc?