Arriva expanding to East Kent

[Kent Dreamer]

I have heard several people saying that Arriva has brought Regent’s Coaches in Whitstable. Curious as to whether anyone on here can confirm this and if they know what Arriva’s plans are to take on Stagecoach in Canterbury and East Kent.

 

[backontrack]

Anyone familiar with Stagecoach East Kent will recognise that, if this is a predatory move, it's been timed to perfection.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Anyone familiar with Stagecoach East Kent will recognise that, if this is a predatory move, it's been timed to perfection.

and, knowing Arriva's abilities and capabilities.... doomed to failure

 

[Busaholic]

and, knowing Arriva's abilities and capabilities.... doomed to failure

Far too long since I either lived or worked in the area, but from everything I've read over the last decade or so Stagecoach has a far better record and reputation in Kent than Arriva. Even now, it's been Kent CC retrenchment that has led Stagecoach to make the changes/cuts it has, although some of those may be questionable.

 

[Typhoon]

I have heard several people saying that Arriva has brought Regent’s Coaches in Whitstable.

It would be an odd choice. Regent's bus work consists largely of school journeys and routes running with the financial assistance of KCC - routes that Stagecoach can't be bothered with or have been outbid. No route uses more than 2 buses; most of the bus fleet is a varied collection of short single deckers; marginally profitable at best. Really the prototype 'small operator', with drivers who have fled the majors (not just Stagecoach). There is some private hire work. I would have thought that this is the very work that Arriva is walking away from.

Anyone familiar with Stagecoach East Kent will recognise that, if this is a predatory move, it's been timed to perfection.

Certainly! Some of the recent changes do not seem to have had the desired effect.

and, knowing Arriva's abilities and capabilities.... doomed to failure

Very worrying - Regent is the only real alternative operator to Stagecoach in East Kent (outside of Ashford).

 

[alex397]

Sounds like quite a strange move, but i'll believe it when I see it! Regent are mostly known for their private hire, although their bus side of things has increased slightly in recent years with the gaining of more contracts.

I do hope its not true, as then there will be no major independent bus operator in East Kent. There is Chalkwell in Sittingbourne of course if you consider that area East Kent, and also Kent Coach Tours in the Ashford/Tenterden area who are quite minor. I doubt there will be much commercial work to gain when up against Stagecoach, who benefit from having a major network across East Kent, unless Arriva are just happy with council contracts which are quite under threat from cutbacks. I'm not quite sure what Arriva would do with the private hire part of Regent, especially as their appears to be uncertainty with their New Enterprise operations also in Kent.

 

[bussnapperwm]

and, knowing Arriva's abilities and capabilities.... doomed to failure

And history will repeat itself (Arriva brought Midland, a company based in the West Midlands who's main work was tendered stuff for Transport for the West Midlands, back in 2012 after winning some 5 year TfWM contracts. A year and half ago, they sold the routes and some buses to Diamond, shut the former Midland depot and kept some routes which moved to other depots (ruining the routes remaining with them in the process!!).)

 

[Typhoon]

And history will repeat itself (Arriva brought Midland, a company based in the West Midlands who's main work was tendered stuff for Transport for the West Midlands, back in 2012 after winning some 5 year TfWM contracts. A year and half ago, they sold the routes and some buses to Diamond, shut the former Midland depot and kept some routes which moved to other depots (ruining the routes remaining with them in the process!!).)

I believe Midland was the company whose vehicles ran around with 'Choice' written on them in an interesting variety of liveries.

If Arriva seriously believe that they can repeat the Midland exercise with Regent they are more out of touch than I (and others) believed.
1. There are no 5-year KCC contracts. KCC are having a 'big conversation' over subsidised bus routes. Consultation meetings are all in the evening and some in pretty out of the way places so only those with cars can get there. I think it is safe to predict that there will be no expansion of subsidised bus routes. Almost all of Regent's routes are subsidised.
2. A quick calculation shows Regent require about 15 buses to run its operation - and, as some routes only operate one or two days a week, they are not exactly overworked. Sunday requirement is 1. Midland was a much bigger operation, I believe (it certainly seemed so when I lived in the area).
3. Midland took advantage of the opportunities to tender for routes outside of the West Midlands. Regent are too far from the border to tender for anything outside of Kent.
4. There is no-one to sell the routes to when Arriva are bored with them.
5. There is no history of competition between operators in East Kent. The last attempt I can remember was by the now-defunct Eastonways who tried new, different routes in Thanet with some success about twenty years ago. Times have changed.

If this is some sort of revenge exercise after Stagecoach started to operate Canterbury - Faversham - Sittingbourne, then they are ill-advised. I don't think the route is that lucrative and Arriva didn't exactly nurture the Faversham - Sittingbourne section. They will be throwing good money after bad.

I do hope its not true, as then there will be no major independent bus operator in East Kent.

I think you are being rather generous in describing Regent as a major independent operator!​

 

[Robertj21a]

Is there any real substance to all this or is it just local rumour ?

 

[Kent Dreamer]

It’s come from a Regents driver post on Facebook and several stagecoach drivers.

 

[alex397]

It’s come from a Regents driver post on Facebook and several stagecoach drivers.

It is sometimes a case of 'Chinese Whispers' when relying on driver hear say. I wouldn't believe anything until an official announcement.

 

[Anthony ross]

This would be an interesting move if it turns out to be true

 

[overthewater]

Would company house give a clue?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Would company house give a clue?

Do they have a rumour facility?

 

[Cesarcollie]

Would company house give a clue?

According to Companies House website Regent Coaches Ltd is a dormant company. So the legal entity that operates could have another name, or be a sole trader/partnership. So no clues there.

 

[bussnapperwm]

According to Companies House website Regent Coaches Ltd is a dormant company. So the legal entity that operates could have another name, or be a sole trader/partnership. So no clues there.

Found this on VOSA

PK0001274
KERRY JANE REGENT & Partners

• Business type
  Partnership

• Trading names
  REGENT COACHES

• Partners
  KERRY JANE REGENT
• PAUL CONRAD REGENT
• SAM ASHER REGENT
• ODETTE TAMERISK JOHNSON

 

[alex397]

I think you are being rather generous in describing Regent as a major independent operator!​

Yes, I probably am being rather generous! They are quite small, but still quite a bit larger than the other independent bus and coach operators in East Kent, who mostly just have a handful of school contracts and private hire duties.
In terms of public bus routes operated, I would say they are the 4th largest in the whole of Kent after Go-Coach, Nu-Venture and Autocar.

 

[Typhoon]

In terms of public bus routes operated, I would say they are the 4th largest in the whole of Kent after Go-Coach, Nu-Venture and Autocar.

Chalkwell?

However, it does show exactly how the majors dominate the county.

 

[alex397]

Chalkwell?

However, it does show exactly how the majors dominate the county.

Whoops, forgot about them! Looking on Traveline, Chalkwell have 20 different routes, and Regent have 21. It does depend how you group their routes though - Regent operate Dover evening routes 61, 61A and 90 using just one bus.
But it does give you a rough idea of their sizes.

 

[Typhoon]

Whoops, forgot about them! Looking on Traveline, Chalkwell have 20 different routes, and Regent have 21. It does depend how you group their routes though - Regent operate Dover evening routes 61, 61A and 90 using just one bus.
But it does give you a rough idea of their sizes.

Also 541, 542, 544 are all East Kent villages to town shoppers buses - different routes on different days but just one bus (also operates one of the school routes listed). 5 and 634 are one day a week. 667 is one journey a day in school holidays. Four of the routes are single journey school day only. So, in general, many routes, not many journeys which is why I can't understand any interest Arriva might have. I would say Regent work hard for every penny they make. I doubt Arriva could do better. There might be opportunities to pick up routes following Stagecoach's retreat but these routes/ journeys were presumably loss making or marginal.

It might be that Arriva is using this opportunity to change direction but I would have thought it wise to wait for more concrete evidence.

 

[Anthony ross]

I asked arriva Kent on there twitter page And this was there reply