08:00 Walton-on-the-Naze to London Liverpool St

[TubeMapCentral]

A couple of times I have been on this train a particular guard has announced, pulling into Thorpe-le-Soken 'this is now a peak service, ALL passengers holding off-peak tickets should leave this train and catch the next service'. The problem is that online GA ticket sales give an off-peak fare to Stratford on this exact same 08:00 departure. Who is correct? This particular guard is a lot more enthusiastic about giving announcements than checking tickets, so I have not had a chance to query the announcement yet.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

A couple of times I have been on this train a particular guard has announced, pulling into Thorpe-le-Soken 'this is now a peak service, ALL passengers holding off-peak tickets should leave this train and catch the next service'. The problem is that online GA ticket sales give an off-peak fare to Stratford on this exact same 08:00 departure. Who is correct? This particular guard is a lot more enthusiastic about giving announcements than checking tickets, so I have not had a chance to query the announcement yet.

There is no such thing as a "peak" or "off-peak" train! It is unacceptable, but entirely in keeping with my personal experience as well as that of many others, for TOCs and train staff to mislead people over what trains they can take with their ticket.

The only thing that determines whether or not you can take a train with an Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak ticket is the two-character restriction code printed on the ticket. You can also find out the restriction code by looking it up at www.brfares.com. For example, a Walton-on-the-Naze to London Terminals Off-Peak Day Return has the restriction code B8. If you look this up (e.g. at www.nationalrail.co.uk/B8) you'll see that you can take any train that departs at or after 07:45 (or before 04:30!). Hence the train you refer to in the title is an entirely valid train to take on that ticket.

Equally, if you hold, say, a Bristol to Walton-on-the-Naze Super Off-Peak Return, this carries restriction code XC, which has no restriction whatsoever out of, or into, Cannon Street. So on that ticket, any train between Walton-on-the-Naze and London is a valid train to take.

 

[TubeMapCentral]

Thanks, one of the most useful pieces of information I've acquired all year. Never realised o/p fares to London were valid for that train!

If I was the guard's manager, I would consider that to be a very serious offence, how can I make a complaint that hits home fast rather than having to wade through the customer services team quagmire?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks, one of the most useful pieces of information I've acquired all year. Never realised o/p fares to London were valid for that train!

If I was the guard's manager, I would consider that to be a very serious offence, how can I make a complaint that hits home fast rather than having to wade through the customer services team quagmire?

It's probably a waste of your time trying to get any kind of action taken over the announcement - in the unlikely event that GA actually understand what the problem is, it would take something far more serious (perhaps involving a safety failing) for there to be any kind of disciplinary.

A useful rule of thumb for the validity of (Super) Off-Peak tickets for journeys via London is the Network Area Rule. This dictates that if a journey which is via London starts outside the Network Area and goes to destination also outside the Network Area, then only the leg from the origin to London has restrictions, and not the other leg from London to the destination. So, for example, a ticket from Bristol to Doncaster 'via London' is restricted between Bristol and London only - it does not carry restrictions between London and Doncaster. A ticket in the opposite direction is restricted between Doncaster and London only, and not between London and Bristol.

If you start outside the Network Area on a journey to somewhere within the Network Area (going via London), then the part between London and the destination is also unrestricted. However, this applies in both directions, unlike above where both origin and destination are outside the Network Area. So a ticket from Bristol to Walton-on-the-Naze is unrestricted between London and Walton-on-the-Naze, but a ticket in the reverse direction is still restricted between London and Bristol (and not between London and Walton-on-the-Naze).

If this confuses you, simply try looking up tickets from places outside the Network Area to other places outside it (via London), and then try reversing the direction. The restriction code should change. Try looking at tickets from places within the Network Area to places outside it (via London), and then try reversing the direction. The restriction code won't change.

 

[TubeMapCentral]

Does that not indicate the depths to which the rail business has sunk? Errors of misinformation would be taken very seriously at the University of Essex, and I suspect Tesco, for example, also. And yes, errors that compromised safety would be taken even more seriously at these organisations. Clearing passengers off a train through misinformation should at the very least result in a valid delay repay, deducted from the wages of the guard would seem very fair to me.

 

[IanD]

Equally, if you hold, say, a Bristol to Walton-on-the-Naze Super Off-Peak Return, this carries restriction code XC, which has no restriction whatsoever out of, or into, Cannon Street. So on that ticket, any train between Walton-on-the-Naze and London is a valid train to take.

Bit of a detour to go via Cannon Street, surely. (Assuming you're not using the Circle line to make the cross-London connection).

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Bit of a detour to go via Cannon Street, surely. (Assuming you're not using the Circle line to make the cross-London connection).

Sorry, I meant Liverpool Street. Not sure why I thought of Cannon Street?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Does that not indicate the depths to which the rail business has sunk? Errors of misinformation would be taken very seriously at the University of Essex, and I suspect Tesco, for example, also. And yes, errors that compromised safety would be taken even more seriously at these organisations. Clearing passengers off a train through misinformation should at the very least result in a valid delay repay, deducted from the wages of the guard would seem very fair to me.

Unfortunately the rail industry is simply "unique", in part due to the fact that it is unionised (and that strikes are a relatively frequent occurrence, certainly in comparison to other industries). Regardless of the merit of your suggestion, going through with it - or even attempting to - would probably lead to industrial action!

 

[paddington]

A couple of times I have been on this train a particular guard has announced, pulling into Thorpe-le-Soken 'this is now a peak service, ALL passengers holding off-peak tickets should leave this train and catch the next service'.

Do you know if anyone actually leaves the train and waits for the next one?

 

[TubeMapCentral]

Do you know if anyone actually leaves the train and waits for the next one?

The announcement is delivered sternly, and more than once, if I didn't have a journey printout with me, and confirmation from the Twitter team that I was OK, I might well decide to step back to the next service myself rather than risk going into battle with the guard. So, yes, I see people getting off, and failing to get on, but I have not questioned them to ascertain their motives and intentions.

I think I know why she is getting confused, it is because of o/p validity at Wivenhoe (not for the 08:00 from Walton), and a long-standing local easement there for the following service, not a sufficient excuse in my book though, I dislike me sins of commission more than omission. Anyway, next time I see her waiting to take a train out at Walton, I will query her announcement.

There is also a station office at Colchester that is open to the public, they seem quite amenable to customer service there, so they might be receptive to direct feedback.