Which is the most friendly and least friendly TOC to rail enthusiasts

[Shinkansenfan]

Just returned from a 6 day visit to England and Scotland-- no problems with photography on Scotrail, Virgin Trains, Arriva Train Wales, W&S, London Midland, Cross Country, Southestern (including Javelin), Southwest Trains, First Great Western, London Transport--either at stations, or taking interior photos inside trains.

Only problems were at Woolwich Arsenal where I photographed the exterior of the headhouse (from the pedestrian street!), and a member of staff told a friend accompanying me that I was not supposed to take photos. He told them photos were permitted.

The two other issues were at LHR Terminal 5 and 3. At T5 I was taking a photo of the interior departures level and a BA staff member riding an escalator nearby stated that photography was not permitted. At the BA Galleries Lounge in T3, a food service person claimed that photography was not allowed. I paid both persons no mind, and continued to click away.

 

[andylloyd]

Just returned from a 6 day visit to England and Scotland-- no problems with photography on Scotrail, Virgin Trains, Arriva Train Wales, W&S, London Midland, Cross Country, Southestern (including Javelin), Southwest Trains, First Great Western, London Transport--either at stations, or taking interior photos inside trains.

Only problems were at Woolwich Arsenal where I photographed the exterior of the headhouse (from the pedestrian street!), and a member of staff told a friend accompanying me that I was not supposed to take photos. He told them photos were permitted.

The two other issues were at LHR Terminal 5 and 3. At T5 I was taking a photo of the interior departures level and a BA staff member riding an escalator nearby stated that photography was not permitted. At the BA Galleries Lounge in T3, a food service person claimed that photography was not allowed. I paid both persons no mind, and continued to click away.

I've had no issues with SWT(Clapham Junction), VWC(Carlisle), NXEC(York, Doncaster), TPE( Northallerton&Thirsk).
Issues with NXEC at Newcastle even when I have signed in..... Too many Jobsworths! They need thinning out!

 

[Ticket Man]

ah the old jobsworth title. reguarly flung by customers at rail staff reguardless of weather the customer is in the wrong or not. i usually recieve it when i tell a customer that his £5 advance ticket eus to man wont be valid for another 3 hours, why the hell should you go when you want for a fiver when everyone else is paying 65 quid a pop.
of course if id let them go other passengers would call me dicrimatory. my plight continues.......

rant over.

 

[andylloyd]

ah the old jobsworth title. reguarly flung by customers at rail staff reguardless of weather the customer is in the wrong or not. i usually recieve it when i tell a customer that his £5 advance ticket eus to man wont be valid for another 3 hours, why the hell should you go when you want for a fiver when everyone else is paying 65 quid a pop.
of course if id let them go other passengers would call me dicrimatory. my plight continues.......

rant over.

Over the last few months i've encountered at least 10 of these staff whilst at Newcastle.....
I carry no tripod just my camera and a little bag
+I have a ticket to prove i just got there LOL

 

[Lampshade]

Jobworths are the people who seem hell bent on ruining your day, most rail staff are quite friendly and I've found that most are quite happy to let you take photographs - they know the guidelines, it's the staff who show no discretion of any sort and insist they're in the right by essentially telling you to bugger off and seem to show contempt for anyone without a ticket (ligitmately).

 

[andylloyd]

Jobworths are the people who seem hell bent on ruining your day, most rail staff are quite friendly and I've found that most are quite happy to let you take photographs - they know the guidelines, it's the staff who show no discretion of any sort and insist they're in the right by essentially telling you to bugger off and seem to show contempt for anyone without a ticket (ligitmiately).

You've nailed that one right in the head there
Lets see what the Newcastle Staff will be like when I get on the Tyne Valley Diverts I will have a 'rover' ticket....

 

[Ticket Man]

Over the last few months i've encountered at least 10 of these staff whilst at Newcastle..... My simple question to them is.....
Do you NOT communicate to one another or the Station Managers Office? I've signed in so just leave me alone......
I carry no tripod just my camera and a little bag

im not defending any bad experience you may have had with rail staff but a station manager wont announce when an enthusiast signs in and peoples intensions arent marked clearly above their heads.
the jobsworth definition is someone who takes pleasure in the fact that rules is rule. i personally dont work with anyone by this description but that said there are staff who could brush up on their conflict resolution/avoidance.

 

[Lampshade]

the jobsworth definition is someone who takes pleasure in the fact that rules is rule. i personally dont work with anyone by this description but that said there are staff who could brush up on their conflict resolution/avoidance.

Precisely

Rules are rules is fair enough though, it's when you encounter someone who thinks rules are what they say they are - even if you know they are wrong there's just no reasoning with them sometimes.

 

[Class 33]

Some of the London Underground staff and staff at Upminster station aren't exactly very friendly towards rail enthusiasts. Have a look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbpk9dm8dLo

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I would not say it's about the freindly TOC's but really depends on the drivers some let you in a cab while other's dont anyone else agree?

 

[andylloyd]

Some of the London Underground staff and staff at Upminster station aren't exactly very friendly towards rail enthusiasts. Have a look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbpk9dm8dLo

One word can describe that:
Shocking

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Unbelivable.

Gavelex is a member of this forum and he should make a point of this to london underground and let them make there stupid excuses then.

 

[Ticket Man]

Some of the London Underground staff and staff at Upminster station aren't exactly very friendly towards rail enthusiasts. Have a look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbpk9dm8dLo

Fair enough the staff there didnt know the regulations and reacted a bit brash but sounded to me like the enthusiasts were being quite confrontational aswell.

 

[Greenback]

I didn't like the way that they confronted the staff member with the conditions of carriage section right at the start. At that moment the staff member didn't appear to be brash. They didn;t seem very co-operative to the staff, but then who knows what happened before the piece of film...

 

[Daimler]

Fair enough the staff there didnt know the regulations and reacted a bit brash but sounded to me like the enthusiasts were being quite confrontational aswell.

I disagree. I've seen that video, and it's been picked up by at least one of the major railway magazines. The enthusiasts stated their position, and the legality of their actions from the off. Faced with blank refusal/ignorance of facts, they neither became abusive nor insulting. They behaved, in my opinion, as politely and courteously as could be expected under both ridiculous and insulting circumstances. Quite simply, they would not let themselves be pushed around by people who were, frankly, out of order.

 

[Ticket Man]

so if i was out on the street and a police officer came and asked me what i was doing and i started spouting section 91 paragraph 3 of the big book of law back at him, do you think i would get a warm reception?

 

[poshbakerloo]

Northern is very friendly, I quite often have 'nerdy train talks' with them...
Virgin staff are nasty tho

 

[Daimler]

so if i was out on the street and a police officer came and asked me what i was doing and i started spouting section 91 paragraph 3 of the big book of law back at him, do you think i would get a warm reception?

Not a warm reception, but I would expect the officer to understand and respect said law. I'm not saying the enthusiasts were courtesy itself, and I'm not suggesting that the enthusiasts shouldn't bother behaving couteously to members of staff - courtesy is always desirable. I was merely pointing out that speaking bluntly and unconversationally (for I don't believe it was much worse than that) is not a green light for people to ignore laws.

I certainly wouldn't descirbe it as 'confrontational'. If anything, the filmer quoting the law sounds like someone wholly fed up with mis-informed employees trying to stop him from doing what he is entitled to do, and simply wants to get them off his back. That is not the same as being 'confrontational' - he's not looking for trouble in any way. If anything, I would describe the security guard as 'confrontational', refusing point blank to listen to sense/law.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think that saying 'these gentlemen seem to think they know more than me' is ever going to be a helpful thing to say, whether it is to a police officer or a station supervisor!

It looked to me as though the employee was initially trying to get the photographers to go to platform 1 for authorisation. This may be technically incorrect, I have been unable to find anything on the tfl website, even in connection with 'section 4.5 of the conditions of carriage', which I note was dated this month, after the events in question!

I don't think either side is blameless in this. In fact, the video could be used as a lesson in how not to handle things, as you can clearly see relations between the two parties disintegrate during the 'discussions' (eg in the argument about surname provision!). As I said, you don't see what happened before the video starts, so there may be mitigating circumstances...for either side!

 

[ungreat]

Me and a friend were getting horns at Stechford, when the tiket office man came down and asked us to stop

If I saw you getting the horn at Stechford I'd be worried too..or have I misread that...

 

[90019]

If I saw you getting the horn at Stechford I'd be worried too..or have I misread that...

You never know, they might like trains that much

 

[thefab444]

Some horn dancers act in that manner.

 

[Ticket Man]

Not a warm reception, but I would expect the officer to understand and respect said law. I'm not saying the enthusiasts were courtesy itself, and I'm not suggesting that the enthusiasts shouldn't bother behaving couteously to members of staff - courtesy is always desirable. I was merely pointing out that speaking bluntly and unconversationally (for I don't believe it was much worse than that) is not a green light for people to ignore laws.

I certainly wouldn't descirbe it as 'confrontational'. If anything, the filmer quoting the law sounds like someone wholly fed up with mis-informed employees trying to stop him from doing what he is entitled to do, and simply wants to get them off his back. That is not the same as being 'confrontational' - he's not looking for trouble in any way. If anything, I would describe the security guard as 'confrontational', refusing point blank to listen to sense/law.

i neither condone or defend the actions of the staff in that video, just saying that i wouldnt lump the blame soley (dunno if i've spelt that right) on them.

 

[WhereInSussex]

If you're at one of the big NR run stations, just do what this says and print a copy of the "Rail Enthusiasts" policy! Infact, if I were going out filming/photographing trains (which I don't!) then I'd print and take it with me wherever I was going, regardless of the TOC!

 

[2030720310]

If I saw you getting the horn at Stechford I'd be worried too..or have I misread that...

You know what I mean, getting trains to whistle for us while we filmed them. Do I need to make it sound any simpler? I know you know I meant that but thought you might need clarification

 

[alexdodds]

On Friday EMT staff were friendly at Sheffield and Derby then i went to Meadowhall and Bradford and Northern staff were ok although Meadowhall i did get nervous a few times. then i had no problem signing in at the station reception at Leeds just said i wanted to take pics and signed in without hesitation.

 

[jrhilton]

SWT getting some slack here; I've never had any problems on SWT stations.

I agree, never had a problem with them. Staff at stations such as Clapham are often busy due to the high number of trains and people, but still they are fine.

 

[Class 33]

From my experience of filming, a number of stations based in the midlands have some miserable staff telling you you can't film at these stations. I am referring to Birmingham New Street and Wolverhampton. Though it probably still depends which staff member is on duty/spots you. Some of them have no problem with it, whilst others do.

Also for those stations that insist that you have to ask permission to film and have to sign in for it, is this really necessary if you're only going to be filming a train for just 20 seconds?

Was filming a train today at Wolverhampton for just barely 20 seconds. And the conductor who got off that train spotted me and said "if they catch you with that(video camera) they'll confiscate it off you.....". Absolutely ridiculous state of affairs!

And then there was that case last year at Coventry station which made the national TV news. With a female platform staff member talking to an innocent train enthusiast like a bit of dirt saying they could not film at this station as it was a security risk!!! Ridiculous.

Whilst lots of other stations in the UK like say Bristol, Exeter, Reading, etc, have absolutely no problems atall with rail enthusiasts filming at their stations!

 

[alexdodds]

Well if its just 20 seconds you should get away with that without asking but if you go for long sessions then you should ask first.

Just ignore conductors like that the one you came across. Wolverhampton is managed by Virgin Trains and they welcome enthusiasts to their stations besides staff have no power what so ever to take cameras off people or tell someone to delete images.

 

[anthony263]

Bristol & Reading & Cardiff i have never had any problems at although i have had a problem with one member of staff at Paddington, even though another member of staff i had spoken to only 10 minutes before said it was ok as long as i wasnt using flash and behaving responsibly