Dimmer or ultra bright carriage lighting - which do you prefer?

[Class 33]

One of the factors for me which makes travelling on trains not so enjoyable as the old days, is the ultra bright carriage lighting nowdays. Why does it have to be so darn bright? Far too bright if you want to sleep and when it's dark outside it's nigh on impossible to see outside as you just get reflections from inside the carriage. The refurbished FGW HST's along with the Class 444's are probably the worst examples. Absolutely horrible lighting.

My avator photo is taken from inside a VEP/Class 423. Just look at the carriage lighting on that. Perfect. Not too bright, but bright enough to see. Also take a look at the photos of the old Class 487 tube trains on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_487 Marvellous lighting on that. Why can't we have carriage lighting like this nowadays?

So just wondered which sort of carriage lighting do you prefer? Ultra bright or the old dimmer style lighting?

 

[asylumxl]

Brighter light. It increase your visual acuity.In "dimmer" light your eyes will struggle, to say, read a paper/book or concentrate on an object, resulting in tired eyes much quicker.

 

[Lampshade]

I think the class 180s have it just right, plenty of natural light from windows, which is a luxury on a Pendolino and bright enough internal lights but not so bright that you'd be dazzled. At night, I think I'd prefer the pendolino lighting, you don't want a floodlit carriage when you're knackered.

 

[richa2002]

Dimmer for sure.

 

[Broken Viking]

As my two-bits worth: I used to love travelling on SWTs 158's at night due to the dim lighting in the carriages, that gave a comforting "Grim" and "Northern" feel to the environment.

Since SWT refurbed their Sprinter fleet though, I havn't enjoyed travelling on them nearly as much as I used to...

 

[TEW]

Brighter light, it is far more useful and I never have trouble sleeping with bright lights either.

 

[Ben]

Brighter - Security reasons more than anything.

 

[Daimler]

Hmm...I prefer brighter light if I can't alter it, as I never find it especially obtrusive, while dim lighting can be tiresome.

However, given the choice I'd like - in the evening and at night, at any rate - dim lighting from the main carriage strip lights, and individual lights in the overhead racks for every passenger - or those smart little table lights!

 

[monkey]

^^yeah but most long distance trains have a those silly reading lamps, that are rendered useless when the main light is sooooo bright. if you want to read you can turn those on. or not on a voyager if you hapeen to have an aisle side seat as the light is not in the right place...

 

[ukrob]

Brighter - Security reasons more than anything.

Serious question - do you really feel safer in a brighter carriage? Darker ones aren't exactly dark!

 

[Waddon]

Its interesting that lighting levels are generally lower in first class than on standard. People's eyes don't get better just because they can afford a first class ticket so why can't we have similar light settings in standard? Although part of that may be due to the fact that darker materials are used in first class interiors, resulting in lower light reflections. Still, I'm sure the designer of most modern standard class carriages had the words 'hospital waiting room' on his mind when he planned the lighting...

p.s. FGW HST's are definitely too bright on the inside. I find it's almost painfully bright in their coaches at night (and the tombstone seats don't help my comfort, either)

 

[Aictos]

As to the lighting on the FGW refurbished HSTs being too bright, they can be dimmed by the train guard if they really wanted to using the coach light brightness controls to either very bright or so called dim as per FGW guidebooks.

 

[Mintona]

CCTV images will show up clearer with bright lights if there is an incident. Although I'm not sure if FGW HSTs have CCTV or not.

 

[Aictos]

I'm not aware of any CCTV on any FGW service, certainly not the HSTs but mind you I travel once in a while with them so bear that in mind.

NXEC services certainly don't have CCTV, the FCC 313s and 317s however do.

 

[jon0844]

It's interesting that a lot of people are saying brighter light. I wonder if FGW actually did any focus-group research that found the same result from the public?

I think the avatar at the top is a little too dark - but I suppose the FGW HSTs were very bright (but I did travel in the daytime). Personally, I'd prefer that modern trains had adjustable lighting - adjusting to the ambient lighting conditions.

The lights could then, gradually, change brightness - like an Airbus A380.

You could even have it where lights get slightly brighter at night when approaching a station (the opposite of an aeroplane dimming them for safety reasons!) - again doing it gracefully, as against turning on the floodlights.

I've always had an interest in good lighting, and wonder why it never seems to be taken that seriously. Even changing fluorescent tubes from warm white to cool white or vice versa makes a huge difference.

We also have LED technology advancing nicely, and I am sure there would be some decent savings to be made by replacing 40w tubes with 1-4w LED bulbs (that are actually bright, not like the crap you get in Homebase with loads of dull LEDs that fade, rather like the ones NXEC use on their HSTs in the vestibules!).

 

[HSTfan!!!]

I'm not aware of any CCTV on any FGW service, certainly not the HSTs but mind you I travel once in a while with them so bear that in mind.

I'm sure some of the 158 fleet have cameras?

 

[JustinStacey.x]

I reckon it's health and safety sticking their oar in again.

 

[devon_metro]

I'm not aware of any CCTV on any FGW service, certainly not the HSTs but mind you I travel once in a while with them so bear that in mind.

NXEC services certainly don't have CCTV, the FCC 313s and 317s however do.

All units (expect 7 142s) have internal CCTV and also CCTV facing forwards in the cab.

HSTs don't have CCTV

 

[Aictos]

All units (expect 7 142s) have internal CCTV and also CCTV facing forwards in the cab.

HSTs don't have CCTV

There you go, I've only travelled on the HSTs and the LHCS so wouldn't know the finer details of the other units.

Saying that though I've used a 165 and a 166 from Paddington to Basingstoke and didn't notice any CCTV and that was earlier on this year!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

One of the factors for me which makes travelling on trains not so enjoyable as the old days, is the ultra bright carriage lighting nowdays. Why does it have to be so darn bright?

:rollbviously the OP has not been on a Pendolino any time recently?! And quite often, if you do want to read on one of these trains, the individual above-seat lights don't work!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I don't think the main problem is the brightness, but the style of lighting. The older trains used to have tungsten lighting - which admittedly was not as bright - but this was mainly due to the 'yellow' feel to the light emitted. Strip lights used to be the same - unrefurbished 158's being a good example.

Recent train refurbishments have seen the 'yellow' effect lights replaced with bulbs which have more of a 'blue' light effect. Thus although the brightness hasn't necessarily increased, our eyes think it has due the lighting colour. On a train, a good way of seeing this is when sometimes the wrong 'colour' bulb finds its way onto the wrong stock. We had a 185 running around recently which had had a bulb replaced with a much older style tube which had a 'yellow' feel to it. This was noticeable compared to the rest of the tubes.

It is a very similar effect to these new energy efficient bulbs we all seem to be expected to buy for our homes. Replace all your old original style light bulbs in your house with new energy efficient bulbs and you will get the same effect - even if they are same wattage. It will suddenly feel colder and much brighter, even though it probably isn't.

 

[jon0844]

It isn't just the wattage, but the lumens. As you say, people may well associate a cool (blue) light as being brighter than a warm (yellow) light even if the brightness is the same.

LED lamps have been well down on brightness, but that is now changing - and you have the added benefit of being able to fade them quite easily.

 

[EM2]

I found the FGW HST lighting pretty good, but I was right in the corner, first seats inside the coach, window side.
The one I was most impressed with was a TPE 185. The lighting on that was just right.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I found the FGW HST lighting pretty good, but I was right in the corner, first seats inside the coach, window side.
The one I was most impressed with was a TPE 185. The lighting on that was just right.

The 185s aren't that bad, but they do feel very cold - and the lighting doesn't help! I much prefer the 170s we have. At night the interior feels very warm and comfortable, but also bright enough to read &c.

 

[jon0844]

It's purely down to the colour temperature. When Wagn refreshed the 317s they replaced all the lights with cool fluorescents and it looks a lot more modern, but as the bulbs went they were simply replaced with the warm ones (no doubt the ones removed and put into store).

In fact, I'm sure these are from storage because so many seem to have gone - far more than would be normal (unless the electrical supply to them is busted) and it's not uncommon to see a number of tubes unlit on a (now FCC) 317.

 

[poshbakerloo]

Dimmer up lights. I think its best when they shine up or across the ceiling...

But with bright reading lights...

 

[Ben]

Serious question - do you really feel safer in a brighter carriage? Darker ones aren't exactly dark!

Well... CCTV works better in lighter conditions!

 

[jon0844]

I think good lighting (at least outdoors anyway) is proven to have a positive effect on crime.

I would also think it also makes people feel safer, which can sometimes be both a good thing (reducing fear) and a bad thing (becoming complacent).

In the future, I bet we'll have modern trains that will have had proper thought put into lighting, both direct and ambient.

 

[jrhilton]

I reckon it's health and safety sticking their oar in again.

I think you are right. I believe there are all sorts of regs around access for disabled passengers (e.d doors, hand rails, PIS systems, etc), and I think lighting levels are mentioned too.... Though I think this only applies to new trains and trains which have been refurbished, but could be wrong.

 

[Dai.]

Cross Country's class 170's have nice lights in the carriages. :]