Northern issued Rail Travel Vouchers

[maffi209]

I had a bit of a palaver at the ticket office this morning when I was part-paying for my season ticket with three Rail Travel Vouchers that I had received as delay repay.

The ticket office was Thameslink, two of the vouchers were issued by Virgin, and the third was issued by Northern. The Northern could not be accepted and, having asked on Twitter, I am told by Northern that their vouchers can only be redeemed at Northern ticket offices.

On the back of all these vouchers, as you know, it says: You can use this voucher at any station or rail-appointed travel agent as full or part payment for travel...

Why are Northern issuing vouchers that can only be used at their stations, contradicting what it says on the back of the very vouchers they are issuing? I live in Luton - my nearest Northern ticket office is quite some distance away. What is going on? I am baffled by it all.

 

[transportphoto]

As long as it’s in date and is indeed a rail travel voucher as you describe, it should have been accepted. Raise a complaint with Thameslink.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Surely if it says "You can use this voucher at any station or rail-appointed travel agent as full or part payment for travel..." then the answer is to just not back down when the ticket office refuse to accept it?
Certainly that would be my position (and I know I'm probably not going to be popular with some posters on here because of that).

 

[maffi209]

It wouldn't go through the machine the chappy at the ticket office was using. Something about the code not working. He tried several times and a big queue was forming [it was peak time] and I felt for him. I stood my ground for a short time and did point out the terms and conditions and he tried again but to no avail.

I contacted Thameslink (no great insight from them but I will chase it up) and Northern to see why this problem occurred and it was then the Northern twitter team told me, quite clearly; I'm afraid that vouchers issued by Northern are only cashable at Northern ticket offices. Very sorry for this.

 

[roversfan2001]

They can only be exchanged for cash at Northern ticket offices, but for payment or part-payment of tickets they can be used at any National Rail station.

 

[maffi209]

They can only be exchanged for cash at Northern ticket offices, but for payment or part-payment of tickets they can be used at any National Rail station.

I was clearly talking about part-payment for tickets in my communication. I need to ask again.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I think you would have a good case against Thameslink to obtain cash for your RTVs at one of their ticket offices, as they were incorrectly rejected. It would definitely be good to get the name of the clerk who served you.

 

[maffi209]

Northern have apologised for the confusion and clarified that their voucher can be used at any station and advised me to take it up with Thameslink. Which I will be doing [again!].

 

[bb21]

If the vouchers do not scan, in theory that's a matter you need to take up with Northern. It's a fraud prevention measure. If I were the clerk I wouldn't accept it either, no matter how awkward the customer wanted to be as someone suggested upthread. The response one would get by being awkward, especially at peak times, is shutters down and/or refusal to be served at all. A complaint is unlikely to get you anywhere in those cases.

I think some TOCs may still allow voucher numbers to be manually typed in, but most don't any more AIUI.

Obviously it's difficult to say who is really at fault here, as it could either be Northern who issued the voucher incorrectly (happens sometimes), or Thameslink whose system didn't work.

It's up to you what you want to do next. The easiest is to simply try it at a different time/location. If that didn't work then you can ask Northern to issue a replacement voucher.

 

[bb21]

I think you would have a good case against Thameslink to obtain cash for your RTVs at one of their ticket offices, as they were incorrectly rejected.

No, you wouldn't.

There may be an increased chance of possibly getting some compensation off Thameslink. They won't cash Northern vouchers.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

No, you wouldn't.

There may be an increased chance of possibly getting some compensation off Thameslink. They won't cash Northern vouchers.

So who do you have recourse against then? Northern have done nothing wrong, assuming this is not down to them failing to record the vouchers being issued - it is Thameslink who have done wrong by failing to accept valid vouchers. I can't believe that the only recourse is 'compensation'. It is is surely that you can cash the vouchers if you wish, in order to end up in the same position as you would have been, had they accepted the vouchers: with your vouchers spent and the value of the vouchers in 'cash'/card balance in your pocket.

 

[sheff1]

If the vouchers do not scan, in theory that's a matter you need to take up with Northern. It's a fraud prevention measure.

Are you saying that someone presenting a RTV which doesn't scan is committing fraud ? I imagine not, but that is certainly what it sounds like.

 

[30907]

Are you saying that someone presenting a RTV which doesn't scan is committing fraud ? I imagine not, but that is certainly what it sounds like.

No, I read it as saying that (rail companies believe that) a RTV that doesn't scan could be a fake. Subtle difference and no accusation.

 

[westv]

Fortunately for most of us, issues with RTVs are a thing of the past now that cash is issued.

 

[bb21]

So who do you have recourse against then? Northern have done nothing wrong, assuming this is not down to them failing to record the vouchers being issued - it is Thameslink who have done wrong by failing to accept valid vouchers. I can't believe that the only recourse is 'compensation'. It is is surely that you can cash the vouchers if you wish, in order to end up in the same position as you would have been, had they accepted the vouchers: with your vouchers spent and the value of the vouchers in 'cash'/card balance in your pocket.

In theory, if barcoded vouchers do not scan, they are not fit for purpose, so Northern's problem. Thameslink have no obligation to accept something that is not recognised by their system. (Yes, it could be Thameslink who were to blame here, but if there were no issue with other vouchers the default position would be something wrong with the voucher. The difficulty is proving it is Thameslink's fault.)

Hence my pragmatic suggestion to try it somewhere else, unless you have no need to purchase any other ticket in the near future. This is by far the most painless approach.

 

[bb21]

Are you saying that someone presenting a RTV which doesn't scan is committing fraud ? I imagine not, but that is certainly what it sounds like.

No...

 

[WelshBluebird]

If I were the clerk I wouldn't accept it either, no matter how awkward the customer wanted to be as someone suggested upthread. The response one would get by being awkward, especially at peak times, is shutters down and/or refusal to be served at all. A complaint is unlikely to get you anywhere in those cases.

And you think that is acceptable? Refusing to serve a customer who is trying to pay with a valid payment method?
Because I don't.

Who the voucher is issued by is of no concern to the customer unless they are specific TOC only vouchers, which RTV's given out for Delay Repay are not.
Customers should never be inconvenienced or refused the ability to pay with legitimate means due to something is is only a problem because of internal railway industry issues.
From a customers pov, any internal railway rubbish can be sorted out afterwards between the TOCs.

 

[TUC]

If the vouchers do not scan, in theory that's a matter you need to take up with Northern. It's a fraud prevention measure. If I were the clerk I wouldn't accept it either, no matter how awkward the customer wanted to be as someone suggested upthread. The response one would get by being awkward, especially at peak times, is shutters down and/or refusal to be served at all. A complaint is unlikely to get you anywhere in those cases.
.

So if a customer simply persists in pursuing an issue at the counter-I don't mean being rude or aggressive-I simply mean, for example, pointing out the terms and conditions for a RTV and therefore asking why it would not be valid- that is likely to result in putting the shutters down and refusing to serve? Think about an equivalent situation in a shop. A checkout operator might reach the point of saying 'I need to ask my manager for advice' but, in sny reputsble store, it would be regarded as unaccrptable to simply close the checkout and walk away. There is something about the rail indusry's approach to customer service that needs to be brought into the 21st century.

 

[bb21]

And you think that is acceptable? Refusing to serve a customer who is trying to pay with a valid payment method?
Because I don't.

If the voucher cannot be validated then it does not have to be accepted, just like when you present a bank note that cannot be verified as genuine, it does not have to be accepted, even if it may after all be genuine.

Whether I think it is acceptable or not is irrelevant.

Same theory goes with the checkout example.

I'm not exactly sure what you two want the clerk to do if the voucher cannot be recognised.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'm pretty sure the Northern vouchers are different to the normal standard. They may not of seen one before.

 

[bb21]

I'm pretty sure the Northern vouchers are different to the normal standard. They may not of seen one before.

Northern ones do have a bar code on them. They are just issued on a slightly different layout (but broadly similar to usual ones) and in a different colour the last one I saw. They may have changed but they should still have a bar code on them.

 

[bb21]

So if a customer simply persists in pursuing an issue at the counter-I don't mean being rude or aggressive-I simply mean, for example, pointing out the terms and conditions for a RTV and therefore asking why it would not be valid- that is likely to result in putting the shutters down and refusing to serve?

I would expect the clerk to explain that the voucher could not be scanned/validated, so unfortunately they could not be accepted. They may or may not give the suggestions I mentioned further up the thread, but aside from that, unless they are allowed to manually type in voucher numbers (in which case I would expect this to have been tried before any possible refusal) there isn't a lot else they could do. It isn't ideal, no, but that is life. The failure rate is low but nothing can be 100% foolproof. The customer can seek redress from the issuer in the aftermath. That's what customer services are for.

"just not back down" as suggested by a particular poster upthread (which seems to become a standard answer being thrown about on the forum these days like confetti) is certainly not the one-size-for-all workable solution as he seemed to imply. Standing one's ground can work in certain scenarios, but you have to choose your battles carefully.

If the customer refused to back down and insisted that the voucher be accepted, then I would expect the stalemate to be resolved by the customer being bypassed and the next customer in line being served. The customer, again, can seek redress from the company in the aftermath if he felt unfairly treated. If it turned out the clerk were wrong in any way, I would expect the customer being suitably compensated.

 

[causton]

Sometimes the barcode does not scan due to damage. There are no guidelines specifically on what to do if it doesn't scan, but on my system at least the numbers can be typed in manually. There is a check digit at the end so if the numbers are made up or altered then unless they know the formula for working out the check digit, I would assume if I typed it in and the check digit was accepted by the system then it was genuine.

If people are saying the RTV looks different, from a company a bit far out of the Thameslink area*, a different colour not seen before, and it didn't scan... then things might start looking suspicious, so depending on the circumstances I might have done the same and assumed something was not quite right.

* an example that is not the same, but someone gave me a forged Scottish bank note, thinking I would just accept it as I would not recognise what the real ones look like, being in the South East of England. Unfortunately for them I noticed it was fake!

 

[lyndhurst25]

I spent an Arriva Trains Wales issued RTV at a Merseyrail station a couple of weeks back. They had quite a bit of trouble scanning the barcode and I thought that it was going to be rejected. The problem was that it's a massive barcode and he was holding the voucher far too close to the scanner for it to be able to see the whole thing at once. Only after I suggested that he hold it further away did he finally get it to read.

 

[janb]

Most TOCs use the variable value vouchers (green that we are all used to seeing). The last Northern ones I saw were the fixed value vouchers (£20 yellow, £10 red, £5 blue, £1 green) which you don't see often these days (most people would go for either free ticket or cash on Northern compensation I would guess) and do have a different layout.

All those are not to be confused with the blue Northern branded vouchers that they send out for low value cash amounts to be exchanged at a Northern ticket office, which is not what the OP had here but I guess what the Northern twitter initially assumed.