Manchester Piccadilly platform routing

[ValleyLines142]

I'm currently on the 1827 Manchester to Bournemouth service.

At Manchester Piccadilly, 1K85 (1817 to Leeds) was at the blocks at platform 2. I have no idea where the ECS movement for that came from, as 1K82 (1652 from Leeds) which I presume would have formed this service was cancelled.

It must have arrived before 1754 however, as 2H72 (1720 from Rose Hill Marple) was due to arrive at 1752, but arrived at 1759 in front of 1K85, and was due to go back out with 2R23 (1809 to Rose Hill Marple). Which would have been fine as of course 1K85 wasn't due to leave until 1817.

Another train, in the form of 2M77 (1713 from Huddersfield), arrived in front of 2R23 AND 1K85, thus trapping both sets in. Which was fine as it was due to go back out as 2E88 (1759 to Huddersfield). However for some reason this left 22 minutes late. Now because of this delay, this subsequently made both 2R23 and 1K85 late by 14 minutes and 8 minutes respectively, so why were all three trains routed into the same platform when platform 4 was COMPLETELY empty following the on time departure of 2S80 (1749 to Sheffield), and nothing arrived on platform 4 until 2G87 (1704 circular via Hadfield/Glossop) at 1828.

I know delays are obviously unprecedented but in that situation was it really wise to route three trains all into the same platform when the following platform was completely empty?

Also got blessed to an absolutely RAMMED TO THE RAFTERS 185145 on the 1357 Middlesbrough to Manchester Airport. What was all that about?!

 

[Loop & Link]

Looks like 17:59 Huddersfield was delayed awaiting traincrew, which may not have been known about, at the time. And using platform 4 you can’t crossover onto the Up Electric without blocking the Down Electric first, therefore delaying other services.

 

[Andyh82]

Is stacking three trains in the same bay normal? Both here and elsewhere I’ve only known two.

 

[Eric]

Is stacking three trains in the same bay normal? Both here and elsewhere I’ve only known two.

I think that would be a first .

 

[ValleyLines142]

Is stacking three trains in the same bay normal? Both here and elsewhere I’ve only known two.

Unsure but it consisted of 142+142 for 2E88, a single 142 for 2R23 and a 185 for 1K85. So four units in total.

 

[billh]

Is stacking three trains in the same bay normal? Both here and elsewhere I’ve only known two.

Yes,seen it at Picc. several times. TPE, Marple and Hadfield all in P1. Huge confusion among passengers as to which train they should be on. Staff have to come onto the train(s) and verify which is which , then a rapid exit by some pax. The platform PIS refers to only two trains (" The front train is.....") I'm not sure it can cope with 3!

 

[palmersears]

Yes,seen it at Picc. several times. TPE, Marple and Hadfield all in P1. Huge confusion among passengers as to which train they should be on. Staff have to come onto the train(s) and verify which is which , then a rapid exit by some pax. The platform PIS refers to only two trains (" The front train is.....") I'm not sure it can cope with 3!

They've taken to only unlocking the doors on the service furthest from the concourse in an attempt to ensure people end up at their intended destination, then unlocking the one behind it as it pulls away. Not 100% fool-proof but it does seem to have helped somewhat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They've taken to only unlocking the doors on the service furthest from the concourse in an attempt to ensure people end up at their intended destination, then unlocking the one behind it as it pulls away. Not 100% fool-proof but it does seem to have helped somewhat.

They should split the platforms into a/b/c and install three screens. Chiltern have I believe done this at Marylebone.

 

[northwichcat]

I think that would be a first .

Definitely not the first, 3 units on the lower number platforms was fairly common in the days TPE used 2 and 3 car 158s. There can also be 4 x 2 car Northern 142s/150s at one platform which end up forming 2 x 2 car services and 1 x 4 car service.

There was also the infamous example a few years ago where a TPE 6 car 170 (3 x 2 car) was sent in to a platform which already contained a 150 and a 323 and the first train wasn't as closer to the buffers as it could be and there was quite a gap between the two Northern units meaning the whole of the one the 170s was off the end of the platform and passengers were removed from that unit via an emergency evacuation procedure. The TPE working was booked as a 6 car 170 at the time (the evening peak Hull service), it wasn't as though TPE put an extra 2 carriages on that day.

 

[faltskog36abba]

Definitely not the first, 3 units on the lower number platforms was fairly common in the days TPE used 2 and 3 car 158s. There can also be 4 x 2 car Northern 142s/150s at one platform which end up forming 2 x 2 car services and 1 x 4 car service.

There was also the infamous example a few years ago where a TPE 6 car 170 (3 x 2 car) was sent in to a platform which already contained a 150 and a 323 and the first train wasn't as closer to the buffers as it could be and there was quite a gap between the two Northern units meaning the whole of the one the 170s was off the end of the platform and passengers were removed from that unit via an emergency evacuation procedure. The TPE working was booked as a 6 car 170 at the time (the evening peak Hull service), it wasn't as though TPE put an extra 2 carriages on that day.

I have seen this happen in Victoria on platform 2 about 15 years ago. There was a pacer stabled near the buffers and I was awaiting the arrival of the Calder valley train at the end of the platform, The usual booked train would of been a 155 or a 2 car 158. Instead a 3 car 158 turned up blocking the access to platform 1 and had to go back up the bank and came in on platform 3, When boarding the train the carriages had posters on the windows saying [Blackpool north - Scarborough.

 

[Eric]

Definitely not the first, 3 units on the lower number platforms was fairly common in the days TPE used 2 and 3 car 158s. There can also be 4 x 2 car Northern 142s/150s at one platform which end up forming 2 x 2 car services and 1 x 4 car service.

There was also the infamous example a few years ago where a TPE 6 car 170 (3 x 2 car) was sent in to a platform which already contained a 150 and a 323 and the first train wasn't as closer to the buffers as it could be and there was quite a gap between the two Northern units meaning the whole of the one the 170s was off the end of the platform and passengers were removed from that unit via an emergency evacuation procedure. The TPE working was booked as a 6 car 170 at the time (the evening peak Hull service), it wasn't as though TPE put an extra 2 carriages on that day.

Sounds a crazy catalog of events.

I was once on a three car 158 and the signal box sent us into platform four at Bradford Interchange where a three car 158 was already stationed. The middle and rear carriage were off the end of platform. Luckily no reverse up and back down the hill, we just exited through the front carriage local door.

 

[scrapy]

They should split the platforms into a/b/c and install three screens. Chiltern have I believe done this at Marylebone.

They did look into this a few years ago but due to differing train lengths would have been unfeasible at the time. You may have a 5 car train at the block end then 2 2 car trains or maybe 2 3 car trains and a 2 car even then a 4 car pacer would be a lot shorter than a 4 car 156. All would require differing positions for A B and C markers.

In the future I suppose it would be possible to have a coloured LED strip along the platform the length of the carriages actually being used and tell people to wait in the appropriate coloured zone.

 

[PomWombat]

There are plenty of platforms in Leeds using a-b-c splits, with 3 different services on them.

I'm not sure how well that will keep working as the Northern train lengths expand over the next few years, as that is already catching people out. I was on a 3-car 170 the other day that was put into platform 10a. The 3rd carriage had to exit through the second, and it sure looked like it stuck out and fouled the points to platform 11.

In that case, the train on 10b wasn't large or badly placed ... nor was the 170 larger than it normally is. There just wasn't room for something with 3 full-length carriages instead of 2 pacer-length ones.

 

[route101]

Yesterday on Platform 14 , the 1918 Wigan NW service stopped at 14B instead of further along . TPE to Middlesbrough was meant to depart from 14 , departed from 3 instead , i take it it went direct via Ardwick.

 

[northwichcat]

Yesterday on Platform 14 , the 1918 Wigan NW service stopped at 14B instead of further along . TPE to Middlesbrough was meant to depart from 14 , departed from 3 instead , i take it it went direct via Ardwick.

Looks like it skipped Oxford Road and Victoria to make up time after getting 20 minutes behind schedule: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y72755/2018/07/06/advanced

 

[Crossover]

There are plenty of platforms in Leeds using a-b-c splits, with 3 different services on them.

I'm not sure how well that will keep working as the Northern train lengths expand over the next few years, as that is already catching people out. I was on a 3-car 170 the other day that was put into platform 10a. The 3rd carriage had to exit through the second, and it sure looked like it stuck out and fouled the points to platform 11.

In that case, the train on 10b wasn't large or badly placed ... nor was the 170 larger than it normally is. There just wasn't room for something with 3 full-length carriages instead of 2 pacer-length ones.

I think Leeds is a slightly different case though as the a/b/c at Leeds are generally separate signalling berths (certainly on the throughs).

Yesterday on Platform 14 , the 1918 Wigan NW service stopped at 14B instead of further along . TPE to Middlesbrough was meant to depart from 14 , departed from 3 instead , i take it it went direct via Ardwick.

Looks like it skipped Oxford Road and Victoria to make up time after getting 20 minutes behind schedule: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y72755/2018/07/06/advanced

Yeah, that would have run via Ardwick

 

[louis97]

I think Leeds is a slightly different case though as the a/b/c at Leeds are generally separate signalling berths (certainly on the throughs).

At Leeds the through platforms are all split into 4 - a/b/c/d. The through platforms have mid-platform signals (one in each direction) of which one side is a/b and the other c/d.

 

[Crossover]

At Leeds the through platforms are all split into 4 - a/b/c/d. The through platforms have mid-platform signals (one in each direction) of which one side is a/b and the other c/d.

I don't think I have two services in a/b or c/d at the same time (other than splitting ones perhaps). P15/16 are also only a/b (for some reason a train I caught last night used p16b, even through 16a was the departure end and was empty!