Poor design of Railway Stations

[edwin_m]

Sydenham for Belfast George Best airport. A footbridge takes you from the platforms over the dual carriageway and steps down to ground level. From there you have to walk alongside said dual carriageway to get into the airport.

It's no wonder passengers use the bus more than the train!

When I used it a few years ago there as a door through the fence into the car park. There was a button to press that allegedly summoned a shuttle bus, but I just walked through the car park.

 

[Parallel]

Platform 3 (plus 1&2) fell out of major use during the sixties with beeching meaning the end of express GWR services from Paddington to Birkenhead and the closure of local lines eg Severn Valley.

For many years the main station building was virtually derelict with the ticket office being at the top of the stairs from the subway to the platform 4-7 island. In 1984-87 the station building was restored and the current ticket office and travel centre built. The ticket office blocks the original access to Platform 3.

Platform 3 only saw sporadic use until the start of the Cardiff to Holyhead services which tend to use it now.

That’s very interesting, thanks for that. Now it’s fairly common to have all platforms occupied. 7 with a train to South Wales, 6 with a train laying over from New St, 5 with a train going to Aberystwyth, 4 with a train going to Birmingham International and 3 with a train to Holyhead (occasionally HOWL use it too and I have also got off there from a terminating service from Aberystwyth before.) I wonder if it’s worth bringing one of the other bays back into use?

Always amusing in Shrewsbury when platform 3 is full of passengers heading to Chester and North Wales, then you hear *BING BONG* “Your attention please on platform 3, this is a platform alteration. The train now approaching platform 4 is the xx.xx service to Holyhead!” *Cue everyone running down the stairs with luggage*

 

[urbophile]

Not amusing at all. Unless you're on platform 4 already. But the Italians do this all the time.

 

[6Gman]

Agreed, the main concourse is far too small to deal with those waiting for trains, & trains are announced minutes before they depart so you have the mad rush to then to get to the platforms & on the train before the train departs as the platforms are some distance away from the concourse.

But that's not really a design fault but an operating fault.

As one who remembers the "new" Euston opening in the 1960s, and even has some recollection of the "old" Euston, the station as designed was excellent.

 

[6Gman]

High Wycombe platform 1 (the rest of the station is OK!) Not only can you not simply cross the platform to platform 2, but the two-car train stop (and most of the trains using platform 1 are two-car I would think) is now down the far end of platform 1. If you alight from a London-bound train on platform 3, it's a very long walk!

On my only trip to High Wycombe I was surprised to discover just how far it was from the station entrance to where my London-bound train was pulling up!

 

[sheff1]

Sydenham for Belfast George Best airport. A footbridge takes you from the platforms over the dual carriageway and steps down to ground level. From there you have to walk alongside said dual carriageway to get into the airport.

It's no wonder passengers use the bus more than the train!

The problem there is the (re) design of the airport. Originally the terminal was virtually next to Sydenham station. The new terminal (which was badly needed) was built at the opposite end of the site. For some time afterwards you could walk though the airport grounds/car park to reach the new terminal but that then changed to the arrangement you describe.

It can still be quicker to use the train, depending exactly where you are travelling from, but as you say the vast majority of public transport users now arrive by bus.

 

[6Gman]

Chester is horrible.

At one time you walked in; the booking office was to your left; then through the barriers and off to your train.

Then they moved the booking office inside and removed the barriers (Open Station and all that).

Then they moved the booking office way off to the right after entering; then you need to walk back to use the barriers. Two coffee shops and (at one stage - don't know if it's still there) a betting office (!) are more conveniently situated than the booking office!

The barriers have been installed at an oblique angle in a cramped location.

 

[Kite159]

Would stations where the positioning of the Passenger information screens is particularly poor count?

For example Coventry Arena where the screen for the Coventry bound platform is at the Nuneaton end of the platform when the seats & dogbox stops at the southern end?

 

[sw1ller]

Shrewsbury- platform 3 is a pain

Llandudno Junction - can’t access any platform without using a bridge. When the lifts are out of use, so is the station!

Shotton - although earmarked for a major revamp, as it stands, access to Wrexham bound trains from the lower level require a fair old walk and possible missed connection.

 

[Deafdoggie]

High Wycombe platform 1 (the rest of the station is OK!) Not only can you not simply cross the platform to platform 2, but the two-car train stop (and most of the trains using platform 1 are two-car I would think) is now down the far end of platform 1. If you alight from a London-bound train on platform 3, it's a very long walk!

Anyone know the reason for 1) the fence, this did puzzle me on my first (and only) visit, and 2) why the train is so scared of the buffers? There must be reasons other than to make it difficult for passengers, but I couldn't see what (Health and safety would be guess, but exactly why?)

 

[jayah]

The downside exit at Weybridge was permanently closed last year creating a long detour via the ticket barriers on the up platform.

The queues stretch right across the 4 track footbridge onto the platform to leave the station in the evening.

 

[PHILIPE]

Shrewsbury- platform 3 is a pain

Llandudno Junction - can’t access any platform without using a bridge. When the lifts are out of use, so is the station!

Shotton - although earmarked for a major revamp, as it stands, access to Wrexham bound trains from the lower level require a fair old walk and possible missed connection.

It happened at Llandudno Jn a few weeks ago following a fire. The station re-opened after a couple of days but due to the fire damage adjacent to the lifts they were out of order for a time. The story is has been mentioned on the Forum

 

[chris_in_salop]

Always amusing in Shrewsbury when platform 3 is full of passengers heading to Chester and North Wales, then you hear *BING BONG* “Your attention please on platform 3, this is a platform alteration. The train now approaching platform 4 is the xx.xx service to Holyhead!” *Cue everyone running down the stairs with luggage*

Doesn't strike me as amusing, just customer-hostile. Sending people with luggage down some ancient wooden stairs, through that miserable congested subway, and up some more (steep) stairs. The railway communicating a clear '**** you' message to its customers.

 

[satisnek]

Would stations where the positioning of the Passenger information screens is particularly poor count?

For example Coventry Arena where the screen for the Coventry bound platform is at the Nuneaton end of the platform when the seats & dogbox stops at the southern end?

Also considering the notice stating that the station is closed for one hour after major events and advising passengers to travel by road (because both station and train service are simply not big enough), I think we have the winner here.

The new Reading station may be a vast improvement for train movements but for passengers it's just further to walk. On one occasion recently the Worcester train departed from Platform 7 (the old Platform 4), which brought back memories. I once achieved a -1 connection from the Wokingham platforms into the train home and there were one or two other times when it was impossibly tight, as a result of late running, but I made it. Sadly those days have gone.

Here's another one: Wolverhampton Platform 4. I mean, why? The thing is, it's not accessible from the original footbridge, the one that's conveniently in the middle of the station by the booking hall, you have to go to the end of the platform to a new bridge with grand, sweeping stairways. I have actually, physically missed a train because it departed from Platform 4. Since I was only going to New Street it was no hardship for me, but it was an XC service so it may have been for someone else. Yet there was nothing scheduled at both 2 and 3 at that time - it just seemed to use 4 for the sake of it.

 

[berneyarms]

My favorite (?) is Dublin Heuston, where an intra-station bus service is provided to take you to platform 10...

Platform 10 was opened to accommodate the expansion and refurbishment of the main station at Heuston - it was purely a temporary measure. Hardly a poor design.

It hasn’t been used for some years now.

 

[Tracked]

Doncaster platform 0, access via a footbridge halfway down the platform from the main subway, you're also taken a couple of metres away from the shopping centre & bus station that you may have just come through ...

 

[sheff1]

Wolverhampton Platform 4. I mean, why? The thing is, it's not accessible from the original footbridge, the one that's conveniently in the middle of the station by the booking hall, you have to go to the end of the platform to a new bridge with grand, sweeping stairways.

.... and the grand new bridge does not provide access to/from the regenerated area at the rear of the station which includes a Premier Inn.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5882022,-2.1220656,115a,35y,90h,45t/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[calopez]

Anyone know the reason for 1) the fence, this did puzzle me on my first (and only) visit, and 2) why the train is so scared of the buffers? There must be reasons other than to make it difficult for passengers, but I couldn't see what (Health and safety would be guess, but exactly why?)

No idea (but I'd also love to know why!) However, stopping trains so far down the platform is a relatively recent innovation; previously they did approach the station more closely, though the fence has been there since the new platform opened.

 

[GingerSte]

Here's another one: Wolverhampton Platform 4. I mean, why? The thing is, it's not accessible from the original footbridge, the one that's conveniently in the middle of the station by the booking hall, you have to go to the end of the platform to a new bridge with grand, sweeping stairways. I have actually, physically missed a train because it departed from Platform 4. Since I was only going to New Street it was no hardship for me, but it was an XC service so it may have been for someone else. Yet there was nothing scheduled at both 2 and 3 at that time - it just seemed to use 4 for the sake of it.

Platform 4 is obviously relatively new compared to the rest of the station. As you can see when you go there, the new footbridge is a fair bit higher than the old one. That is to satisfy all the standards, especially now that the line is electrified. (It does appear over-designed, doesn't it!) The old bridge will have grandfather rights, but you would not get a new span on the old footbridge to work at that height.

If you change the level, you have to consider how disabled people will access the new (higher) span, so a lift serving both heights of the footbridge and the platform is in order. Now think of how you can make that change to the existing lift (in whatever condition it's in) while keeping the station open, or only closing it for a very short period. Compare this to a shiny new footbridge that doesn't chop people's heads off.

Also, the new rebuilding works are starting, which will move the station over to the new footbridge side (where the BTP building currently sits). That should reduce the walk a bit, depending on where you come from.

I can't speak for why platform 4 was chosen for the service over platform 3. P4 appears to be slightly longer, but that would only be for Pendolino's (HSTs and double-Voyagers are shorter).

.... and the grand new bridge does not provide access to/from the regenerated area at the rear of the station which includes a Premier Inn.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5882022,-2.1220656,115a,35y,90h,45t/data=!3m1!1e3

I agree it should. However, that is additional expense with very little return. The BCR would be in negative (below 1) territory. I don't know if the refurb will include this, but would bet against it (unless Wolverhampton Council want to pay for it).There is a subway under the station, not far from the new footbridge, which would do the job (if not very nicely - I don't like subways).

 

[sheff1]

I agree it should. However, that is additional expense with very little return. The BCR would be in negative (below 1) territory. I don't know if the refurb will include this, but would bet against it (unless Wolverhampton Council want to pay for it).There is a subway under the station, not far from the new footbridge, which would do the job (if not very nicely - I don't like subways).

A very 'British' way of thinking. In more enlightened countries providing a convenient exit to a newly regenerated area would be considered pretty much essential.

 

[tsr]

West Croydon is pretty appalling.

It’s a very long walk from the bay platform, where many trains terminate, to the Down platform used by through trains to Sutton, Epsom and so on. You have to use steps, more steps, a bridge and a ramp.

The side entrance/exit is closed ever earlier in the evening, meaning that instead of a 15 second walk to and from the tram stop, you have to use the main entrance and then walk through most of the shopping area of West Croydon itself. This is not an especially pleasant walk after dark, even for someone like myself who is very familiar with the area and its local characters. Even worse when the street lights have failed.

Staff assistance kiosks are located so far from most passengers that you’ll rarely see anyone who can help you.

The track and signalling layout means that despite there being a fully-signalled option to depart the Up platform in the Down direction for trains in passenger service, it can’t actually usually be used to loop trains around terminating services on the Down, because of a very restrictive layout at the north end of the station.

 

[STKKK46]

No idea (but I'd also love to know why!) However, stopping trains so far down the platform is a relatively recent innovation; previously they did approach the station more closely, though the fence has been there since the new platform opened.

I’ve been led to believe in the past that the stopping location is due to signal sighting, but I may be wrong.

I’d also imagine the change of the platform was a way to alleviate overcrowding on the island platform.

 

[satisnek]

Platform 4 is obviously relatively new compared to the rest of the station. As you can see when you go there, the new footbridge is a fair bit higher than the old one. That is to satisfy all the standards, especially now that the line is electrified. (It does appear over-designed, doesn't it!) The old bridge will have grandfather rights, but you would not get a new span on the old footbridge to work at that height.

Interesting. I don't know exactly when Wolverhampton High Level was rebuilt but I would have thought that it was either at the time of or in readiness for electrification - and back then the clearances were greater because they weren't too sure how far 25kV could jump, or not jump as the case may be.

If you change the level, you have to consider how disabled people will access the new (higher) span, so a lift serving both heights of the footbridge and the platform is in order. Now think of how you can make that change to the existing lift (in whatever condition it's in) while keeping the station open, or only closing it for a very short period. Compare this to a shiny new footbridge that doesn't chop people's heads off.

They managed it at Nuneaton, but to be fair they had a much wider footbridge to play with.

Also, the new rebuilding works are starting, which will move the station over to the new footbridge side (where the BTP building currently sits). That should reduce the walk a bit, depending on where you come from.

A shorter walk from the Great Western

I can't speak for why platform 4 was chosen for the service over platform 3. P4 appears to be slightly longer, but that would only be for Pendolino's (HSTs and double-Voyagers are shorter).

My best guess is that it was to eliminate re-platforming hassle if it was running late or there was any delay to something coming off the Salop line (3) or going the other way (2). But there wasn't.

 

[delt1c]

It used to be a very long walk from the entrance to the platform at Angel Road, dont know if it still is

 

[Alex 2901]

I agree it should. However, that is additional expense with very little return. The BCR would be in negative (below 1) territory. I don't know if the refurb will include this, but would bet against it (unless Wolverhampton Council want to pay for it).There is a subway under the station, not far from the new footbridge, which would do the job (if not very nicely - I don't like subways).

It would... had it not been shut for the duration of the refurb starting from the end of May.

 

[HWLad]

I’ve been led to believe in the past that the stopping location is due to signal sighting, but I may be wrong.

I’d also imagine the change of the platform was a way to alleviate overcrowding on the island platform.

There is only one DOO Mirror on Platform 1 at High Wycombe. I don't think there are platform dispatchers at High Wycombe so short trains have to be stopped short of the buffers in order for self-departure. The new overbridge may obstruct signal sighting in the bay which the old subway didn't but I can't say for sure.

I would say High Wycombe's staggered platforms are also hugely irritating if you're in a rush to catch a fast train to London from the Amersham Hill Ticket Office. It's worse now since the change from the subway to the overbridge but it's a hang over from when High Wycombe used to have through lines which meant the confined plot required staggered platforms.

Platforms 4, 5 & 6 at London Marylebone are 'poorly' designed in that it causes a scrum on Platform 3. What makes it worse is the dreaded "Far Train" for departures off these platforms which definitely need at least 2-3 minutes to get to from the concorse. Like High Wycombe's stagger though, it was placement out of neccessity rather than intentionally poor design.

 

[STKKK46]

Platforms 4, 5 & 6 at London Marylebone are 'poorly' designed in that it causes a scrum on Platform 3. What makes it worse is the dreaded "Far Train" for departures off these platforms which definitely need at least 2-3 minutes to get to from the concorse. Like High Wycombe's stagger though, it was placement out of neccessity rather than intentionally poor design.

Indeed a necessity, but that far train situation is a nightmare with the boarding process there.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Cradley Heath.

If accessing the Worcester bound platform from the booking office and bus station, you need to either use the foot bridge or use the nearby level crossing...With trains running each way every 10 minutes.

Oh, and DDA access from the ticket office to the Worcester platform is via...said level crossing!!!

When TfWM refurbished the bus station a couple of years ago, they should have made it so where the existing rail station shop and bus station waiting area was replaced by a lift, link it with the NR footbridge at the Birmingham platform and NR fit a lift and link to the existing footbridge at the Worcester platform side