CrossCountry 10 minute reservations

[Bevan Price]

Why? I (and many other people) like being able to reserve a seat at short notice and I neither know nor care where and when the train started its journey.

If you don't like the system, simply don't occupy any of the handful of seats that are marked as reservable en-route.

The problem with that is that the trains are all much too small and it can be almost impossible to find unreserved seats. In my opinion, each train should have at least one fully unreserved coach.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem with that is that the trains are all much too small and it can be almost impossible to find unreserved seats. In my opinion, each train should have at least one fully unreserved coach.

Fundamentally it all comes down to the fact that the Voyagers are all at least 2 coaches too short, as we have known for years.

 

[Senex]

Fundamentally it all comes down to the fact that the Voyagers are all at least 2 coaches too short, as we have known for years.

Absolutely true. I do have quite a lot of sympathy with the people who chose them and failed to foresee that doubling the frequency of service would not simply distribute the existing numbers of passengers over more trains but was likely to lead to significant increases in total numbers, but I have much less sympathy for those in all the various bodies (DfT, ORR, Office for Rail Franchising (?), Virgin CrossCountry, Arriva CrossCountry) that have failed over the years to do anything about it—a very clear example of the way in which the franchising system as practised here has let down the travelling public.
On the particular point about reservations, if there were adequate capacity to allow for a significant number of seats in both First and Standards to be designated unreservable, then the system that Arriva uses would work well enough. As it is, with no unreservable seats in First and very few in Standard, it does not cater for the last-minute traveller or the traveller with an open ticket who decides to use this train rather than that one. And to those people who say, "Well, just look at the reservation-labels and find a seat free for the next section of your journey", I'd simply say, "Just try doing that when you board at a very busy station like Leeds or Birmingham". One small measure that would certainly help a little would be to change the text-reserve system to allow you to book the seat you've found, so that when you have managed to find a seat free for the journey you want to make, you can actually keep it.

 

[Bantamzen]

Absolutely true. I do have quite a lot of sympathy with the people who chose them and failed to foresee that doubling the frequency of service would not simply distribute the existing numbers of passengers over more trains but was likely to lead to significant increases in total numbers, but I have much less sympathy for those in all the various bodies (DfT, ORR, Office for Rail Franchising (?), Virgin CrossCountry, Arriva CrossCountry) that have failed over the years to do anything about it—a very clear example of the way in which the franchising system as practised here has let down the travelling public.
On the particular point about reservations, if there were adequate capacity to allow for a significant number of seats in both First and Standards to be designated unreservable, then the system that Arriva uses would work well enough. As it is, with no unreservable seats in First and very few in Standard, it does not cater for the last-minute traveller or the traveller with an open ticket who decides to use this train rather than that one. And to those people who say, "Well, just look at the reservation-labels and find a seat free for the next section of your journey", I'd simply say, "Just try doing that when you board at a very busy station like Leeds or Birmingham". One small measure that would certainly help a little would be to change the text-reserve system to allow you to book the seat you've found, so that when you have managed to find a seat free for the journey you want to make, you can actually keep it.

I know services can be heavily loaded at places like Leeds & Birmingham, but is it really that hard to quickly scan the screens as you head down the carriage? I know I often have to do when traveling at short notice, and frankly its a lot easier than straining to see what journeys are printed on paper reservation tickets.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I know services can be heavily loaded at places like Leeds & Birmingham, but is it really that hard to quickly scan the screens as you head down the carriage? I know I often have to do when traveling at short notice, and frankly its a lot easier than straining to see what journeys are printed on paper reservation tickets.

But the scrolling screens take a while to read, meanwhile everyone is waiting behind you!

 

[Bantamzen]

But the scrolling screens take a while to read, meanwhile everyone is waiting behind you!

So do paper tickets where more than one portion of the journey is booked. Unfortunately one way or another, trying to find an unreserved seat on a busy service with a high level of reservations is always going to mean having that slow trundle down the carriage peering at screens or paper tickets. And unless either someone comes up with a system of informing passengers that a seat won't be reserved at any point along their journey without the use of printed or displayed text, then the situation will remain.

To be absolutely honest, I don't think its the fault of the system. A combination of short units where more capacity is needed, and an awful lot of impatience by some passengers when standing behind people trying to find a free seat are the real issues here.

 

[ainsworth74]

So do paper tickets where more than one portion of the journey is booked.

I don't think they take as long as it takes a Voyager reservation screen to scroll. Sure you have to read what's on the paper reservation but a scan takes a second or two. If you catch a Voyager reservation screen at the wrong moment you can be waiting a good six seconds or so for it come around again. Now doing that once isn't going to be an issue but on a busy train where you may end up needing to check every set of seats it starts to add up.

Is it a serious issue in the scheme of things? No of course not. But it's definetly a niggle with that reservation system. I guess it's all down to being the first implementation of electronic reservation screens on GB trains. The system as features on the IETs (when it's working!) is far better with a clear screen and traffic lights telling you if a set is reserved, reserved later or unreserved at a glance.

 

[Senex]

So do paper tickets where more than one portion of the journey is booked. Unfortunately one way or another, trying to find an unreserved seat on a busy service with a high level of reservations is always going to mean having that slow trundle down the carriage peering at screens or paper tickets. And unless either someone comes up with a system of informing passengers that a seat won't be reserved at any point along their journey without the use of printed or displayed text, then the situation will remain.
To be absolutely honest, I don't think its the fault of the system. A combination of short units where more capacity is needed, and an awful lot of impatience by some passengers when standing behind people trying to find a free seat are the real issues here.

Deafdoogie picked up the point I was making, about the people queuing up behind you, and I do think reading the screens is slower than glancing at the paper tickets. The way round it is a substantial chunk of unreservable seats in both classes, but as you note, the underlying problem is the lack of total capacity in the short units (coupled with the wish to offer as many reservable seats as possible for advance booking). The impatience point is an interesting one. Some people are just impatient, and indeed, if you're the one behind and have your own reserved seat to go to, there's no reason for worrying about the hold-up. But if you too are looking for a seat and are conscious of competing with the people coming in from the other end of the coach, then you are likely to get very irritated indeed by someone holding you up, even for just a few seconds.
I suspect the only answer is a combination of longer trains and a much more sophisticated reservations system. XC are trying to do things with a system that just isn't up to it.

 

[Mag_seven]

Deafdoogie picked up the point I was making, about the people queuing up behind you, and I do think reading the screens is slower than glancing at the paper tickets.

Re paper reservations the print is often faded and small which means that those (like me!) whose sight is not as good as it used to be take more time to read it - "glancing" is not an option!

 

[68015 (^AG)]

I think most of the points raised here are valid - it needs to be remembered though that the Voyagers (constructed 00/01) were (one of if not) the first trains to be fitted with electronic seat reservation displays. Many lessons have been learned since then, and as someone says above it can take time to read a rolling display which is why the format has changed in newer builds, and the introduction of the (in my opinion, excellent) traffic light system accompanying the display in the IETs is a step above and beyond what is capable with the older tech on the 220/221s. Short of ripping them apart, and spending on a brand new system, I'm not sure there's an easy fix to the issues raised.

(Obviously, with the trains being well into their operational life at 18 years old I'd imagine a mid-life full refit or internal refurbishment/rearrangement is on the cards at some point, though with the Arriva XC franchise up potentially in the next 18 months or so, who knows when this will happen - it would be nice to see (though unsure of the logistics, costing, practicalities etc) if this does happen that the ancient TMS and associated displays would be replaced with a newer version with better systems on board for reservations, internal displays, provision of passenger information, etc).

As someone has also mentioned above, the Ten Minute Reservation system only allocates seating in Coach C (in standard class accommodation).

 

[whhistle]

Why? I (and many other people) like being able to reserve a seat at short notice and I neither know nor care where and when the train started its journey.

You're the only one I have read so far.

It just seems a lot of faff and providing an answer to a problem that wasn't really there.

We already know many people don't sit in their own seat anyway, which then causes conflict as I hate sitting in a seat that says "Reserved" but doesn't have anyone in it (and no, they're not likely to have gone to the toilet or something).

OR

You risk sitting in it, then the person turns up, sometimes a good 10 minutes after the train has departed and claimed the seat, turfing you out. Just rubbish all round and hardly worth it.

...but is it really that hard to quickly scan the screens as you head down the carriage? its a lot easier than straining to see what journeys are printed on paper reservation tickets.

So you strain to see paper tickets but not a screen which is probably further away?

So do paper tickets where more than one portion of the journey is booked.

Erm... paper tickets do not scroll.
The recent redesign in tickets has made reservations easier as you have less physical tickets. But even so, you already had to check your tickets to make sure of the time, so finding the section that displays the seat number and coach letter... well, it's all on the same small 5/6cm card.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Absolutely true. I do have quite a lot of sympathy with the people who chose them and failed to foresee that doubling the frequency of service would not simply distribute the existing numbers of passengers over more trains but was likely to lead to significant increases in total numbers

I don’t. At the time on uk.railway a number of us said there would be a problem, and so there was.

I agree it’s criminal that nothing has been done about it, though, be that more coaches or extra sets to allow for extensive 8/9 car running at least on most services within the Bristol/Manchester/York/Reading core sections.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think they take as long as it takes a Voyager reservation screen to scroll. Sure you have to read what's on the paper reservation but a scan takes a second or two. If you catch a Voyager reservation screen at the wrong moment you can be waiting a good six seconds or so for it come around again. Now doing that once isn't going to be an issue but on a busy train where you may end up needing to check every set of seats it starts to add up.

Is it a serious issue in the scheme of things? No of course not. But it's definetly a niggle with that reservation system. I guess it's all down to being the first implementation of electronic reservation screens on GB trains. The system as features on the IETs (when it's working!) is far better with a clear screen and traffic lights telling you if a set is reserved, reserved later or unreserved at a glance.

VT modified theirs to use shorter text that need not scroll. Has XC not?

 

[Deafdoggie]

VT says "reserved" "Available" or "Reserved from..." which is shorter, but less helpful. if "Reserved" I have no idea how long it is reserved for. If a no-show, I might be fine sitting in it till the next stop, or the end of the line.

XC has the full text scrolling through, which is more useful, but takes longer to read. "Available" "Available until..." "Available, but maybe reserved en route" "Reserved between...and..." "Available until...but may be reserved en route." But the important thing to remember, coach B is always unreserved, Coach C is the only coach with 10 min reservations in it, Coach D is the 'default' reservation coach, for all reservations, unless people choose a different seat. In other words, there are more empty seats in F and C than D. When boarding a XC voyager, go for B first (if there is one) then F, then C and only D if desperate

On VT voyagers, coach C is the unreserved one.

 

[68015 (^AG)]

...the important thing to remember, coach B is always unreserved, Coach C is the only coach with 10 min reservations in it, Coach D is the 'default' reservation coach, for all reservations, unless people choose a different seat. In other words, there are more empty seats in F and C than D...

Yeah, bear in mind also though that there are less seats in F to begin with

 

[Deafdoggie]

Yeah, bear in mind also though that there are less seats in F to begin with

Indeed, about 20, or around a third less. It is a balancing act knowing where best to go for!

 

[transmanche]

You're the only one I have read so far.

But, as has been commented on many times previously, the posters on this forum are not a representative cross-section of the general travelling public.