Liverpool Lime St remodelling

[mcnw35282]

I was under the impression it was so pendolino’s could use 1 or 2 when running via earlestown save having to cross to 6 on approach to Lime Street (new numbers)

 

[notlob.divad]

Also 2 TPEs terminating on top of one another will fit on either future 1 or future 2.

However I do agree that the more I look at the way it is shaping up, the more I question why old 1 was not kept as a spur off future 1. The next time an EDL protest gets chased out of the city and the Police kettle them in the loading bay. They will be desperate for the tracks to be put back.

 

[xtradj]

Is the concourse being re developed with a new colour departure board?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If you mean the work on what was the White Star pub, I believe it is being refitted as the Virgin First Class Lounge.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Its no doubt been asked before, but looking at the photos it looks like platform one could have been kept, what is the thinking behind making 2 so long? How often will 2 see a train that takes up its whole length? Seems a bit of a waste to lose a platform

A retained (old) P1 would, after deducting modern, compliant buffer-overrun areas, signal standback allowances and a bit of a safe overrun distance, be about 50m long - not really worth it?

 

[edwin_m]

A retained (old) P1 would, after deducting modern, compliant buffer-overrun areas, signal standback allowances and a bit of a safe overrun distance, be about 50m long - not really worth it?

Park a condemned Merseyrail Pacer in it as an awful reminder?

 

[driver_m]

Park a condemned Merseyrail Pacer in it as an awful reminder?

Haha, just a photo of the one rammed into the station building will do nicely thanks! Put one in Workington on a plinth to remind them of what they sent us to suffer .

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Park a condemned Merseyrail Pacer in it as an awful reminder?

The ideal occupant would be L&MR Lion, currently caged in the Liverpool Museum down by the Pier Head.
In the 1930s it used to be on display at the Lime St buffers.

 

[adrock1976]

Not sure if this question would be better in the Allocations, Diagrams, & Timetables section.

A very quick question here - are the ex London Euston Intercity terminating at Liverpool South Parkway in Platform 4, then around 10 minutes or so later depart Platform 4 in passenger service to London via Allerton Signal An4 and run non-stop through Platform 3?

The reason I ask is because according to the Real Time Trains website, there does not appear to be any London trains departing Platform 4, but from Platform 3 around 15-20 minutes late, running to the aforementioned signal before passing through Platform 3 non-stop usually early.

 

[swt_passenger]

Not sure if this question would be better in the Allocations, Diagrams, & Timetables section.

A very quick question here - are the ex London Euston Intercity terminating at Liverpool South Parkway in Platform 4, then around 10 minutes or so later depart Platform 4 in passenger service to London via Allerton Signal An4 and run non-stop through Platform 3?

The reason I ask is because according to the Real Time Trains website, there does not appear to be any London trains departing Platform 4, but from Platform 3 around 15-20 minutes late, running to the aforementioned signal before passing through Platform 3 non-stop usually early.

Yes. It was mentioned a few pages back earlier in this thread.

 

[B&I]

If (old) platform 1 is being removed because it will hinder more than help with the new layout, it would seem sensible to take advantage of how wide (new) platform 1 will be, and the buildings alongside it, to improve passenger facilities, which really aren't great at Lime Street

 

[Joseph_Locke]

If (old) platform 1 is being removed because it will hinder more than help with the new layout, it would seem sensible to take advantage of how wide (new) platform 1 will be, and the buildings alongside it, to improve passenger facilities, which really aren't great at Lime Street

I suspect that the gloss of the new layout will soon wear off, and we'll be discussing putting it back (and demolishing retaining walls, Copperas Hill bridge, etc. to do it).

 

[driver_m]

Not seen the planning documents, but seem to recall a small supermarket being planned at the front/side of platform 1 where the travel centre is. Don't suppose that will use anything up?

 

[B&I]

Not seen the planning documents, but seem to recall a small supermarket being planned at the front/side of platform 1 where the travel centre is. Don't suppose that will use anything up?

If it's knocked through backwards from the travel centre it would use a fair bit of the space I'm thinking of up. I'd like to see something at Lime Street of comparable size to the Piccadilly Sainsburys, so I can get something decent for my tea on the way home.

I think there's a fair bit of scope to improve passenger facilities at Lime Street, for example at the ex-taxi rank on the Lord Nelson Street side.

 

[mr_jrt]

I suspect that the gloss of the new layout will soon wear off, and we'll be discussing putting it back (and demolishing retaining walls, Copperas Hill bridge, etc. to do it).

Indeed.

 

[Class 170101]

As for the replacement services, I have real difficulty believing that 2 services per hour is the most that 2 platforms at Lime Street can manage. If that is the case, why can't TPE at least reach Huyton, when Northern can turn a class 319 there, or Lea Green or Newton le Willows, where TPE call in regular service ? There's a strong sense of nulle posteriore about the whole thing

Isn't it all un-signalled moves at the moment with pilotmen etc? If so thats probably about all that can be managed.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Isn't it all un-signalled moves at the moment with pilotmen etc? If so thats probably about all that can be managed.

Nope, all signalled.

 

[driver_m]

Isn't it all un-signalled moves at the moment with pilotmen etc? If so thats probably about all that can be managed.

No. Only if the existing temp. signalling failed would you need a pilot man.

 

[The_Engineer]

Update photographs on Twitter...…

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6418134103773847552

 

[xtradj]

If you mean the work on what was the White Star pub, I believe it is being refitted as the Virgin First Class Lounge.

I knew that but believed there to be more improvements to the concourse and retail facilities? I thought they may have modernised the departure boards also

 

[Class 170101]

Nope, all signalled.

No. Only if the existing temp. signalling failed would you need a pilot man.

In that case what B&I asked previously is a fair question, why not allow TPE to run a service into Lime Street? What is the constraining factor at Lime Street at the moment as it seems 4tph for two platforms to be fairly relaxed to handle.

 

[driver_m]

Probably because the services TPE run are more susceptible to getting severe delays, the two current services are effectively self contained whereas any TPE delay could ruin the timetable. It's only for another few weeks and the EMT option from Picc is reasonably quick anyway.

 

[Geeves]

Also in regards to the TPE I believe there is some interworking between stock and crews on the Newcastle and Scarborough jobs which would complicate matters more at the Liverpool end only having two platforms. We have been waiting for crews to come in Taxis quite alot this week at Vic. The Northern stopping service off Vic with no TPEs in the way to delay it has probably ran near to 95% on time all the times it has been running.

Also while there are two platforms at Lime St there is only one line in and out as far as Edge Hill which adds another constraint onto how many trains can go in and out.

 

[Class 170101]

What is the constraining factor at Lime Street at the moment as it seems 4tph for two platforms to be fairly relaxed to handle.

Also while there are two platforms at Lime St there is only one line in and out as far as Edge Hill which adds another constraint onto how many trains can go in and out.

I thought there might be another 'hidden' constraint and your comment reveals a bit.

 

[Loop & Link]

It has struggled, even with the current 3tph at times, due to the single line working in place between Edge Hill and Lime Street, even though there was 4tph last time, slightest bit of late running and the job would go up the wall, having to start turning trains at Edge Hill.

Any slight late running has seen trains run non-stop eg: from Huyton to Lime Street to ensure it doesn’t cause further congestion and knock on late running.

 

[B&I]

I'm not convinced by any of this. If TPE had any interest in serving Liverpool they'd carry on running to Huyton and turn there

 

[Loop & Link]

Apart from reasons highlighted above, turning trains at Huyton as well as having through trains is slightly impractical.

You’d have to turn the TPE back in Platform 2, which is also used by Wigan-Liverpool services, twice an hour. Doable, yes, if the train is in and out but what pathing along the Chat Moss and then at Victoria, if you running it at a different time?

So instead you’d have to shunt the unit behind the signal at Huyton Junction and into Platform 4, again working around 2tph to Wigan, any late running and you’re asking for trouble.

Not only that, you have to think of traincrew breaks, you’d have to taxi traincrew Huyton to Lime Street, which is booked to take 30 mins. You can’t have PNB’s at Huyton and you can’t leave units mainline at Huyton with no traincrew, you have to a member of traincrew with the unit at all times, even with the units fully berthed/disposed, again think of traincrew relief issues/PNB’s related to this.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The real killer this time for TPE is that connections at Victoria or Oxford Road on to Liverpool are poor.
Westbound the ex-Newcastle isn't too bad, but the cancellation of the Northern connection with the Scarborough at Victoria is poor (35m).
You have the choice of a long wait, or drift round to Oxford Road with another poor connection to South Parkway via Warrington (24m).
Eastbound the Newcastle connection is all of 2 minutes (same platform), and while it's possible, it is pot luck if you make it.

 

[The_Engineer]

More photograph from the 24 hour project!

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailLIV/status/1014155455596322816

 

[The_Engineer]

I'm bot convinced by any of this. If TPE had any interest in serving Liverpool they'd carry on running to Huyton and turn there

Remain unconvinced then. You have no idea of the practicalities involved.