Hertfordshire - what happened?

[CMS]

Hertfordshire has, arguably, the best road network in the country with a good amount of dedicated bus-only infrastructure and well-established bus corridors. Recently though, the bus market appears to be on the decline in the area, given the continuous cuts to services (one only has to look at Intalink service changes or have a browse of company social media) as well as some pessimistic reading in the 2016 and 2017 editions of the HCC Local Transport Plan.

I'm no industry expert, but living in the area and working elsewhere in the transport industry, it would seem to me that routes which are successful are so because the operator knows its market (an often captive one), and the route actually goes where people need to go with a decent frequency. The former is pretty obvious in any sector but the latter to me is where I am somewhat astounded.

Take the Hatfield - St Albans corridor, St Albans has quite a 'gig economy' which is great for students needing part time employment, most of which live in South Hatfield or between the town and Garden/Salisbury Villages. Given their UH discount, their instant first choice should be Uno... but the 653 takes 45 minutes from South Hatfield to St Albans? The corridor has 12bph yet only 6bph people actually use to go between Hatfield - St Albans.

Then take cross-county routes such as Hatfield-Hertford/Potters Bar-Cheshunt/rest of county-Bishops Stortford. Frequencies are so low and routes so long-winded that there is no longer a 'reliable' service. Given the poor train service at the moment which could have converted some to the bus, it is regretful that no opportunities have been seized.

Arriva (perhaps due to finances) seem to be the only operator who have reliable, well used routes such as the 500, 321, 300/301, 100/101, 310, 510 Group and although it's touch and go, the 724.

Some potential areas which I think are under-exploited and could bring up bus usage figures:
- Hatfield to Edgware - although Uno have a relatively captive student market, here's one where the bus is quicker than train. If the route was run more reliably, the bus had a better routing around Hatfield and more buses ran direct via A1(M) with a clockface timetable, it could be successful. Plus almost all of North London can be accessed from Edgware bus/tube so definitely a good hub.
- Stansted Airport* to Central/West Herts - the current Hatfield-Hertford link is either too long (724) or too infrequent (341). I'm sure there would be a market for UH students and travellers from Hertford to get to the airport (as NX coaches do pick up some passengers but are also very infrequent). Most non-drivers have to circulate via London/Cambridge via GTR which is not easy currently. If the 724 can manage to stay afloat, perhaps a similar route could work?
- Hatfield/St Albans/Borehamwood to Watford - each service (bar the 321/724 between St Albans and Watford) seems to go around the world to get to Watford, which is a key commuter and leisure town, with the hospital serving these areas too.
- Hemel Hempstead Station, has very poor bus links to the rest of the town and surrounding villages. Interestingly in the 2017 HCC Local Transport Plan there is a ridiculous suggestion that this would be the terminus of a new bus rapid transit to Hertford and Welwyn via an interchange point on the A414 for a St Albans connection and Hatfield.
- Luton to Central/West Herts, given the L&D, airport* and large town centre it's surprising that bar the 100/101/321, other routes into Hertfordshire don't do better, even the Uno 610 which has recently seen new vehicles runs often empty outside of the student flow hours - it doesn't serve the airport despite the fact the train station doesn't directly either and it duplicates the 321 from Harpenden to Luton which it will always lose out on despite potentially quicker routeings. Also the Centrebus routes (43/X31, 46 and 34/35) have been whittled down completely.

*-noting that HCC and most Herts MPs are opposed to airport expansion at these two hubs but are in favour of boosting capacity and improving surface transport particularly for staff from Herts.

And just as a final thought... Parkhouse Bus Station - what happened?

Would like to hear your comments and suggestions.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

In short, what happened is that Hertfordshire, in common with many other shire counties, slashed its support for bus services

 

[radamfi]

- Hemel Hempstead Station, has very poor bus links to the rest of the town and surrounding villages. Interestingly in the 2017 HCC Local Transport Plan there is a ridiculous suggestion that this would be the terminus of a new bus rapid transit to Hertford and Welwyn via an interchange point on the A414 for a St Albans connection and Hatfield.

This doesn't sound too bad to me. There are a number of similar set-ups in the Netherlands where fast inter-urban buses connect at strategically located bus stations, typically at major road junctions at the edges of towns. This creates convenient, fast connections between several towns at low cost compared to providing direct buses between each pair of towns.

 

[A0]

In short, what happened is that Hertfordshire, in common with many other shire counties, slashed its support for bus services

That's not the reason for the things the OPs commenting on though - the Hatfield - St Albans corridor has always been well served with commercially registered services for example.

 

[Megafuss]

Regards Stansted, Uno used to run a 635/700 joint service from the likes of Stevenage etc through to the Airport on behalf of HCC. That got binned off.

Intalink is a good scheme. I think what Herts needs is ARRIVA to do some actual marketing. Unfortunately I don't think they've got it in them.

 

[A0]

I'll take a punt at replying - but I'll do it in line as your post is quite long.

Hertfordshire has, arguably, the best road network in the country with a good amount of dedicated bus-only infrastructure and well-established bus corridors. Recently though, the bus market appears to be on the decline in the area, given the continuous cuts to services (one only has to look at Intalink service changes or have a browse of company social media) as well as some pessimistic reading in the 2016 and 2017 editions of the HCC Local Transport Plan.

I'm no industry expert, but living in the area and working elsewhere in the transport industry, it would seem to me that routes which are successful are so because the operator knows its market (an often captive one), and the route actually goes where people need to go with a decent frequency. The former is pretty obvious in any sector but the latter to me is where I am somewhat astounded.

Simplistically you're right. Herts is an odd county - people forget it stretches out into the countryside at places like Bishops Stortford and Royston where Cambridge is the 'pull' where at the other extreme you've got places like Rickmansworth which are on the Underground network !

Take the Hatfield - St Albans corridor, St Albans has quite a 'gig economy' which is great for students needing part time employment, most of which live in South Hatfield or between the town and Garden/Salisbury Villages. Given their UH discount, their instant first choice should be Uno... but the 653 takes 45 minutes from South Hatfield to St Albans? The corridor has 12bph yet only 6bph people actually use to go between Hatfield - St Albans.

There are other UNO buses plying the Hatfield - St Albans corridor e.g. the 602 which covers the journey in about 30 mins. For some reason the 653 takes a particularly circuitous route out of St Albans going via Marshalswick & Jersey Farm - which traditionally were served by St Albans local services. It then heads out into the Hatfield Business Park - using a route which traditionally never saw a bus.

Then take cross-county routes such as Hatfield-Hertford/Potters Bar-Cheshunt/rest of county-Bishops Stortford. Frequencies are so low and routes so long-winded that there is no longer a 'reliable' service. Given the poor train service at the moment which could have converted some to the bus, it is regretful that no opportunities have been seized.

Hatfield - Hertford has for very many years been 2 routes - the 724 running hourly most of the time and the 341/641 running approx every 2 hours. The 341 was never registered as a commercial service by London Country - in fact it passed to Eastern National and then Reg's for a time, suggesting loadings have never been that good.

Potters Bar - Cheshunt - there really isn't the demand. Again the 242's been an HCC contract for a long time. The only place served en route is Cuffley and all 3 of these destinations have fast trains into London. Neither Potters Bar nor Cheshunt are 'destinations' in their own right. And if, for example, you live in Potters Bar and want to go shopping or to the cinema, you're not going to head to Cheshunt.

Bishops Stortford is out on a limb quite frankly - the main links there are to Harlow or Cambridge. People from Stevenage for example don't go to Bishops Stortford and vice versa. In fact many years ago the 724 was extended to Stansted and Bishops Stortford before being curtailed back to Harlow.

Arriva (perhaps due to finances) seem to be the only operator who have reliable, well used routes such as the 500, 321, 300/301, 100/101, 310, 510 Group and although it's touch and go, the 724.

Pretty much all of those are long-standing routes in some guise - the 500 can trace it's parentage back to the old Green Line's to / from Aylesbury. The 321's been around aeons. The 300/301 are a hybrid of the old 303 (Hitchin - Barnet) and 330 (WGC - St Albans / Hemel) services etc. The only 'odd' one of those is the 100/101- there was a Green Line which covered the Luton - Stevenage route from the early 80s but the 100/101 really came into being when Arriva curtailed the 300/301 to Stevenage and re-routed the Hitchin - Luton services which used to continue to Letchworth / Baldock (92-99s) to run to Stevenage.

Some potential areas which I think are under-exploited and could bring up bus usage figures:
- Hatfield to Edgware - although Uno have a relatively captive student market, here's one where the bus is quicker than train. If the route was run more reliably, the bus had a better routing around Hatfield and more buses ran direct via A1(M) with a clockface timetable, it could be successful. Plus almost all of North London can be accessed from Edgware bus/tube so definitely a good hub.

The 614/644 has a clockface timetable? And the 797 proved that running via the A1 means you get fewer passengers.

- Stansted Airport* to Central/West Herts - the current Hatfield-Hertford link is either too long (724) or too infrequent (341). I'm sure there would be a market for UH students and travellers from Hertford to get to the airport (as NX coaches do pick up some passengers but are also very infrequent). Most non-drivers have to circulate via London/Cambridge via GTR which is not easy currently. If the 724 can manage to stay afloat, perhaps a similar route could work?

See above - the 724 did run to Stansted for a time before being curtailed to Harlow.

Stansted isn't the pull you think it is from mid Herts and certainly not from West Herts. Luton is easier, so is Heathrow and with Thameslink even Gatwick isn't that bad.

- Hatfield/St Albans/Borehamwood to Watford - each service (bar the 321/724 between St Albans and Watford) seems to go around the world to get to Watford, which is a key commuter and leisure town, with the hospital serving these areas too.

Not sure how you'd run a "better" St Albans - Watford service unless you used the M1, in which case you'd lose a load of passengers and I'm not convinced would save much time. The 321 and 724 have used their current routes for many years - there must be a reason for that?

- Hemel Hempstead Station, has very poor bus links to the rest of the town and surrounding villages. Interestingly in the 2017 HCC Local Transport Plan there is a ridiculous suggestion that this would be the terminus of a new bus rapid transit to Hertford and Welwyn via an interchange point on the A414 for a St Albans connection and Hatfield.

Ironically the location of Hemel station is one of the reasons why the Green Line 758 has continued to do well - because it heads east from the town centre, via the estates and picks up en route to London.

- Luton to Central/West Herts, given the L&D, airport* and large town centre it's surprising that bar the 100/101/321, other routes into Hertfordshire don't do better, even the Uno 610 which has recently seen new vehicles runs often empty outside of the student flow hours - it doesn't serve the airport despite the fact the train station doesn't directly either and it duplicates the 321 from Harpenden to Luton which it will always lose out on despite potentially quicker routeings. Also the Centrebus routes (43/X31, 46 and 34/35) have been whittled down completely.

Well, let's unpick this a little because you're mixing too many things up.

Firstly, the L&D hospital is only a 'pull' for Harpenden. If you're in St Albans, then you've got Watford, Hemel and the QE2 at WGC all with various levels of service.

Luton town centre isn't a pull if you live in Watford or Hemel - Watford is. And so is Brent Cross.

The airport isn't permitting most buses there - which is why they terminate at the interchange.

The UNO 610 routing is, I suspect, because they know the alternative would be to continue along the Lower Luton Road - where there is precisely no demand for a bus, on a road which is slow and winding. Whereas the old A6 (now 1081) is a much better road, much quicker. I don't think they're trying to compete with the 321 - why would they?

The 43 was, once upon a time, a United Counties cross country route from Luton - Hemel, never very well used it was an early HCC contract which I think Buffalo ran - frankly it was to link the villages to and from Hemel and Luton and the demand isn't there. Ditto the 46 which was another old UCOC route but ran via Markyate and Redbourn to get to Hemel. Also did time with Buffalo IIRC.

The 34/35 don't go to Luton - that's the replacement for the old 342/343 Dunstable - St Albans (and if you go far enough back Hatfield and Potters Bar). By deregulation it was curtailed to St Albans (either Tyttenhanger or St Stephens) and passed, again, to Buffalo. At best that one only ever ran hourly. There's pretty much nothing between Dunstable and Markyate on the A5 which limits its appeal - again Dunstable town centre is hardly a destination of choice. At the south end from Markyate through Redbourn and onto St Albans it always did OK for school journeys serving 2 or 3 of the St Albans schools en route, but apart from some Saturday shoppers and St Albans market day, it really wasn't ever that busy.

*-noting that HCC and most Herts MPs are opposed to airport expansion at these two hubs but are in favour of boosting capacity and improving surface transport particularly for staff from Herts.

And just as a final thought... Parkhouse Bus Station - what happened?

Would like to hear your comments and suggestions.

 

[gazthomas]

The roads and congestion in most of Herefordshire is terrible

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

The roads and congestion in most of Herefordshire is terrible

it's even worse in Hertfordshire

 

[carlberry]

The roads and congestion in most of Herefordshire is terrible

It's all the cider lorries.

 

[gazthomas]

it's even worse in Hertfordshire

Damn phone! Yes, Hertfordshire

 

[carlberry]

Damn phone! Yes, Hertfordshire

Must have been an Apple phone!! I'm here all week!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Just a few thoughts as a former inhabitant of Hemel Hempstead

Then take cross-county routes such as Hatfield-Hertford/Potters Bar-Cheshunt/rest of county-Bishops Stortford. Frequencies are so low and routes so long-winded that there is no longer a 'reliable' service. Given the poor train service at the moment which could have converted some to the bus, it is regretful that no opportunities have been seized.

The problem is that none of these towns are particularly big- Bishops Stortford's population is less than 40,000, Cheshunt isn't much bigger, Hertford is 26,000- and the main traffic flows that they do have are in towards London. Therefore the routes that connect them do have to take more of a circuitous route, covering the smaller villages, otherwise the buses would be empty.

If there was a market I'm sure the buses would run. But I'm not convinced that there is. If you're in Potters Bar you're going into London to do your shopping and your working, you're not going to a small sleepy market town like Hertford.

Hatfield to Edgware - although Uno have a relatively captive student market, here's one where the bus is quicker than train. If the route was run more reliably, the bus had a better routing around Hatfield and more buses ran direct via A1(M) with a clockface timetable, it could be successful. Plus almost all of North London can be accessed from Edgware bus/tube so definitely a good hub.

Again, how many people actually want to go to Edgware? Sure, it's convenient for the tube, but if you're in Hatfield you could be in Kings Cross in the amount of time it'd take the bus to get to Edgware. The big business parks around Edgware/Stanmore/Borehamwood all have lots of parking, so the flow isn't there for those either, and it's the same for Brent Cross shopping centre.

Stansted Airport* to Central/West Herts - the current Hatfield-Hertford link is either too long (724) or too infrequent (341). I'm sure there would be a market for UH students and travellers from Hertford to get to the airport (as NX coaches do pick up some passengers but are also very infrequent). Most non-drivers have to circulate via London/Cambridge via GTR which is not easy currently. If the 724 can manage to stay afloat, perhaps a similar route could work?

Is Stansted a draw for most of Hertfordshire? From where I lived Heathrow and Luton were the airports that were easiest to get to. I only ever flew from Stansted on Ryanair routes that weren't duplicated from Luton by EasyJet. There weren't many times that happened.

Hatfield/St Albans/Borehamwood to Watford - each service (bar the 321/724 between St Albans and Watford) seems to go around the world to get to Watford, which is a key commuter and leisure town, with the hospital serving these areas too.

Again, other than the hospital (and Hatfield is served by Lister Hospital in Stevenage), is there much of a draw for Watford?

Hemel Hempstead Station, has very poor bus links to the rest of the town and surrounding villages.

Arriva did run peak time extra buses from the station to most of the town. I used to use the extension of the ML1 when I lived towards Chaulden/Warners End. Even at 6pm off a peak London train I was often the only person who boarded the bus. And I only ever used the bus if it was raining.

I think it's better now with the recent changes to the 2/3 (they're changing again next week). For the surrounding villages, again, I'm not sure of the demand. The bigger villages do have buses- the 500 and the Carousel 103 (730)- but beyond that I'm not sure there's much of a demand.

Luton to Central/West Herts, given the L&D, airport* and large town centre it's surprising that bar the 100/101/321, other routes into Hertfordshire don't do better

Who'd want to go shopping to Luton?

As for the airport, the taxi firm I used in Hemel used to do a £22.50 special to the airport. By the time you've paid seven quid each on the bus...

 

[philjo]

The bus services in Hertfordshire have declined over many years.

Going back 25-30 years my Grandmother used to get the bus a few times a year from Letchworth to Luton to go shopping - the bus to Luton ran every 20 minutes and it was every 10 minutes between Letchworth and Hitchin when I was getting the bus home from school. From Letchworth the buses only go to Hitchin now and are 2-3 buses an hour at best.
The Luton services now go to Stevenage which makes some sense but the rest of North Herts lost out.
Pre-1987 of course you had to change trains at Royston to get to Cambridge before it was electrified.
Nowadays I tend to get the train to Cambridge to shop or go to London.

Some services are very slow - partly due to the traffic.
I was meeting a friend in Hemel recently and looked at getting the train to Hatfield then the bus on to Hemel. It was somewhat quicker for me to go to Kings cross and get another train from Euston to Hemel.

The fares are also expensive.
I got the train to Potters Bar for many years and had an annual plusbus ticket to get the onward bus to work. This service was infrequent and the plusbus fare went up several times. Back in the late 1990s I was able to use a zones 4-6 London travelcard season ticket on the buses from Potters Bar but this got cut back to only certain services.
I am now commuting to Cambridge - the plusbus fares are cheaper and the buses are much more frequent.

Just a few thoughts as a former inhabitant of Hemel Hempstead

If there was a market I'm sure the buses would run. But I'm not convinced that there is. If you're in Potters Bar you're going into London to do your shopping and your working, you're not going to a small sleepy market town like Hertford.

There is quite a good market on the 84 route from Potters Bar to St Albans which has been a fully commercial route for some time now.
I think Hertford has more draw to/from Welwyn.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There is quite a good market on the 84 route from Potters Bar to St Albans which has been a fully commercial route for some time now.

St Albans has quite a lot going for it though, in terms of shopping and nightlife, these days. That and the 84 takes pepple from South Mimms and Colney to the train or the tube at Barnet. Not sure the same applies to Hertford.

 

[class387]

Given their UH discount, their instant first choice should be Uno... but the 653 takes 45 minutes from South Hatfield to St Albans? The corridor has 12bph yet only 6bph people actually use to go between Hatfield - St Albans.

Uno had a period in which they tried to combine loads of routes into a smaller amount of long routes to reduce their PVR.

For example:

S2 St Albans - New Greens, S3 St Albans - Jersey Farm, 603 Hatfield - WGC
Combined into 653 New Greens - WGC

610 Enfield - Hatfield, 636 London Colney - Luton
Combined into 610 Cockfosters - Luton

601 WGC - St Albans, 655 Hatfield - Borehamwood
Combined into 601 WGC - Borehamwood

607 Hatfield - Salisbury Village, 341/641 Hatfield - Broxbourne
Combined into 341/641 Salisbury Village - Broxbourne.

This created some much longer routings and a less reliable or frequent service.

 

[CMS]

Interesting comments and read here, thanks.

Intalink is a good scheme. I think what Herts needs is ARRIVA to do some actual marketing. Unfortunately I don't think they've got it in them.

I agree, great in principle, particularly the "one-stop-shop" aspect of their app/website rather than having to look up each company. However, I'd argue Arriva is probably doing the best of all the operators so is probably ok (even if the 300 shows up with 'Your local Medway link' written down the side. I'd argue Uno ought to market differently - for instance, what do 'Comet' and 'Dragonfly' actually achieve? I just think they're trying to copy/react to the Arriva MAX/Sapphie sub-branding but they don't offer the same product (i.e. a high-frequency inter-urban trunk route). Perhaps they could market examples of good journey times/frequencies, emissions, destinations served.

For some reason the 653 takes a particularly circuitous route out of St Albans going via Marshalswick & Jersey Farm - which traditionally were served by St Albans local services. It then heads out into the Hatfield Business Park - using a route which traditionally never saw a bus.

Exactly and it doesn't need one. I get the joining of the 603 and S3 has saved on PVR but reliability is awful and very few people want to bridge the gap between Hatfield and Jersey Farm (FYI, the 653 doesn't go via the Business Park but via Oaklands Lane). Would it not have not made more sense to limit dead-running to & from St Albans, reinforce a good-frequency St Albans city network of routes and *controversially* cut the 602? It serves no purpose in it's current form to me, massively since the 84 went to 4bph and now follows a better routeing offering lower fares, and since the 300/301s reliability has got better as more run-time is given. I'd bring back the 632 (1bph London Colney-Watford is enough, with 658 and 398 reinforcing) and a Welwyn-Hatfield local route which would take over parts of the odd 341/641 routeing which could then be simplified.

And the 797 proved that running via the A1 means you get fewer passengers.

The 644 is often packed, so I don't wholly buy this. The 797 failed because of frequency reductions, high fares and congestion along the London section. Edgware is a good hub.

Stansted isn't the pull you think it is from mid Herts and certainly not from West Herts. Luton is easier, so is Heathrow and with Thameslink even Gatwick isn't that bad.

Is Stansted a draw for most of Hertfordshire? From where I lived Heathrow and Luton were the airports that were easiest to get to. I only ever flew from Stansted on Ryanair routes that weren't duplicated from Luton by EasyJet. There weren't many times that happened

True, but I still think that although demand isn't as strong, a better cross-county route is needed, as apart from the 724, all the others are poor.

Not sure how you'd run a "better" St Albans - Watford service unless you used the M1, in which case you'd lose a load of passengers and I'm not convinced would save much time. The 321 and 724 have used their current routes for many years - there must be a reason for that?

I was thinking more of Borehamwood-Watford taking roughly an hour and Hatfield-Watford about 1h30 which is far too long. I agree the St Albans-Watford corridor is generally good (although fares along it are too high, even more than the train?!). I do think a sort of '521' which went along the M1 missing at North Watford direct into Watford, and perhaps across to the hospital would be a great idea but appreciate demand might not be there.

The UNO 610 routing is, I suspect, because they know the alternative would be to continue along the Lower Luton Road - where there is precisely no demand for a bus, on a road which is slow and winding. Whereas the old A6 (now 1081) is a much better road, much quicker. I don't think they're trying to compete with the 321 - why would they?

But it would be quicker for the 610 to go straight through Batford along the Lower Luton Road, any time I've travelled on it (moreso on the former 636 admittedly) almost nobody boards/alights in Harpenden apart from schoolchildren and occasional passengers to Wheathampstead). The main traffic is Luton to/from UH and peak local trips. If continuing via Harpenden, if it went along Cutenhoe Road instead of the full length of London Road it would avoid 321 duplication, avoid the congestion at Matalan/bottom of London Road, pick up a few local fares and certainly school fares at the high school.

Sure, it's convenient for the tube, but if you're in Hatfield you could be in Kings Cross in the amount of time it'd take the bus to get to Edgware.

That is if you live relatively near Hatfield Station. If you live in South Hatfield/Salisbury Village, you could be in Edgware in under half an hour. Also, it'd be much cheaper for UH passengers compared to the cost of a Travelcard/return to North London.

Uno had a period in which they tried to combine loads of routes into a smaller amount of long routes to reduce their PVR.

This created some much longer routings and a less reliable or frequent service.

And now they are just as unreliable, if not more and go where nobody wants to go, relying mainly on local hops/university peak flows. I notice that Sullivans have done the same with the 306/398, and Centrebus with the 34/35/X31. Not many of these routes seem well patronised on observation. I would that where operators in Hertfordshire have done the opposite, things seem to have got better (i.e. Arriva's 321 and 500 no longer running cross-Watford, simplification of 100/101/102 into 100/101, 386 being more reliable than 700 and Metroline reinforcing the 84 instead of their 84/84A/84B/714 phase). However, I note than in each case Hertfordshire's chronic congestion issues seems to be the key to this - almost any route in St Albans will be pulverised if traffic is particularly bad on a given day regardless of its PVR or length. Watford can be awful too, particularly given the current lack of bus standing space due to town centre improvement work.

And, no comment re Parkhouse Bus Station, which still exists FYI...

 

[class387]

And, no comment re Parkhouse Bus Station, which still exists FYI...

I agree that Parkhouse bus station was an absolute farce. As far as I'm aware Parkhouse was built around the same as the bus station behind DeHavilland Campus, and with Uno being subsidised by the University, they obviously preferred to serve the stops closer to the campus, so that became Uno's main bus station. So Parkhouse just had a few routes, usually for short periods of time: the 601 (which then got moved to DeHavilland), the 650, 607 and finally the 655 (now all withdrawn). I think it is unlikely Parkhouse will see further use, and now seems to be a makeshift car park as well as a place for some 'dodgy' activities...

To be honest though Uno seem to be the better operator in the Hatfield area. They have invested in some nice new buses and are generally reliable, if sometimes late or slow. In contrast I've only had a 1/5 success rate with the 301 in the past week.

 

[CMS]

I agree that Parkhouse bus station was an absolute farce. As far as I'm aware Parkhouse was built around the same as the bus station behind DeHavilland Campus, and with Uno being subsidised by the University, they obviously preferred to serve the stops closer to the campus, so that became Uno's main bus station. So Parkhouse just had a few routes, usually for short periods of time: the 601 (which then got moved to DeHavilland), the 650, 607 and finally the 655 (now all withdrawn). I think it is unlikely Parkhouse will see further use, and now seems to be a makeshift car park as well as a place for some 'dodgy' activities...

It's very, very odd. I think there was originally a plan to move the town centre west to the site, hence why the new police station and gym development/ALDI went there. Also, for a long time the WH Times ran stories about a superhospital which would be nearby so I can see the intention but it's a complete joke. No bus route has terminated at The Galleria in years (only the Saturday edition of the 610 off the top of my head and the peak 365 for a while) and without a clear pedestrian link to The Galleria or the proposed 'district centre', it stood no chance.

 

[class387]

It's very, very odd. I think there was originally a plan to move the town centre west to the site, hence why the new police station and gym development/ALDI went there. Also, for a long time the WH Times ran stories about a superhospital which would be nearby so I can see the intention but it's a complete joke. No bus route has terminated at The Galleria in years (only the Saturday edition of the 610 off the top of my head and the peak 365 for a while) and without a clear pedestrian link to The Galleria or the proposed 'district centre', it stood no chance.

I was wondering about the District Centre as I remember hearing publicity about it, but nothing seems to have happened. The Parkhouse area in general isn't a very nice place to be now. It is as easy to walk from DeHavilland to the Galleria as from Parkhouse and buses navigating Tamblin Way and then round the bus station rather than stopping at DeHavilland which is closer to a conventional bus station just makes the idea of Parkhouse ridiculous. I remember in the last days of the station most drivers just wouldn't bother looping round and I missed a few buses that way. It is no surprise that it is no longer used, but one annoyance is that, even though there are no bus services, the traffic signals and bus lanes still exist! A farce on every level.

Not even the Saturday 610 terminates at the Galleria now - since April Uno extended that to Luton. I think some evening shorts on the 301/300 still do though.

 

[Wirewiper]

One problem with Hertfordshire is that under bus deregulation, there is little co-ordination of services which would enable a more coherent network to be created. A start has been made with the BUSnet schemes in St Albans, Watford and now Hemel Hempstead, but it needs to go further. Perhaps it is time for Intalink to roll out an Advanced Quality Bus Partnership across the entire County.

 

[A0]

One problem with Hertfordshire is that under bus deregulation, there is little co-ordination of services which would enable a more coherent network to be created. A start has been made with the BUSnet schemes in St Albans, Watford and now Hemel Hempstead, but it needs to go further. Perhaps it is time for Intalink to roll out an Advanced Quality Bus Partnership across the entire County.

I disagree - the issue was even under NBC days Herts was never considered a 'single' entity - you had 3 operators based in the county all doing their own things London Country, United Counties, Eastern National and, for Royston at least Eastern Counties / Cambus.

There isn't the demand for these 'cross county' links - people from Bishops Stortford have no interest in Watford or vice versa. Unlike Beds for example where people do travel between Luton and Bedford.

If anything the root cause of the problems was the formation by Morrison of the LTPB with responsibility for bus services up to 30 miles out of London way back in the 1930s. It meant the basic links in Herts were dictated by LT - and most of those exist to this day. And many areas were poorly served as a result.

 

[Busaholic]

I disagree - the issue was even under NBC days Herts was never considered a 'single' entity - you had 3 operators based in the county all doing their own things London Country, United Counties, Eastern National and, for Royston at least Eastern Counties / Cambus.

There isn't the demand for these 'cross county' links - people from Bishops Stortford have no interest in Watford or vice versa. Unlike Beds for example where people do travel between Luton and Bedford.

If anything the root cause of the problems was the formation by Morrison of the LTPB with responsibility for bus services up to 30 miles out of London way back in the 1930s. It meant the basic links in Herts were dictated by LT - and most of those exist to this day. And many areas were poorly served as a result.

Herts is a county which is pretty unknown to me, my forays into it being very sporadic, and even those mostly donkeys' years ago. I would just add a comment on the Potters Bar to Cuffley and Cheshunt section though, because as far as I know this area was left to London Transport Central (i.e. red) buses to cover, with Potters Bar hosting one of their garages of course. For many years the 205 and variants plied the roads over to Waltham Cross, then further east into Essex, Epping being about the extent I think, but the western end always had a very limited service. Later on, it basically became the 242 and went to Chingford rather than Epping, but for a time went through PB to South Mimms. All this time, up to the early/mid 1960s, these routes were surprisingly not run out of PB but by Enfield Garage, but just prior to one man conversion of the 242 it was moved to PB, and for a period there was something better than a half hour service between Cuffley and Potters Bar for much of the day but, in reality, a lot of this was just to avoid 'dead' running to the more important Waltham Cross/Abbey/Chingford part of the route, which was boosted as a by-product of the 'reshaping' plans around the opening of the Victoria Line to Walthamstow in 1968. I did the complete journey through one day in 1968 or 1969 and loadings after Cheshunt W/B amounted to me and the driver. I don't think this was an aberration, and the route gradually suffered a multitude of cuts to reflect the actual patronage. A shame, but not good bus territory in that part of Herts anyway.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There isn't the demand for these 'cross county' links - people from Bishops Stortford have no interest in Watford or vice versa.

Definitely. People in Bishops Stortford, Royston or Buntingford don't have any interest in Watford and Hemel, and vice versa. It may be one county, but there isn't a huge demand to get across it. The more rural North and East of the county gravitates outwards towards Cambridge not inwards to St Albans or Watford.

The Intalink scheme is far more coherent than in a lot of counties. It's not a lack of a coherent network that stifles demand, it's just the lack of demand.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Definitely. People in Bishops Stortford, Royston or Buntingford don't have any interest in Watford and Hemel, and vice versa. It may be one county, but there isn't a huge demand to get across it. The more rural North and East of the county gravitates outwards towards Cambridge not inwards to St Albans or Watford.

The Intalink scheme is far more coherent than in a lot of counties. It's not a lack of a coherent network that stifles demand, it's just the lack of demand.

I think the best way of putting it is that Hertfordshire is a county which is orientated east/ west but most of it's major traffic flows are north/ south

 

[A0]

I think the best way of putting it is that Hertfordshire is a county which is orientated east/ west but most of it's major traffic flows are north/ south

I think that's a very good way to describe it - and a similar situation exists in Northamptonshire, where people from Daventry or Brackley aren't looking to get to Wellingborough or Kettering, but instead to Milton Keynes, Rugby (in Daventry's case) and Banbury, Bicester and Oxford in Brackley's case.

 

[Busaholic]

I think that's a very good way to describe it - and a similar situation exists in Northamptonshire, where people from Daventry or Brackley aren't looking to get to Wellingborough or Kettering, but instead to Milton Keynes, Rugby (in Daventry's case) and Banbury, Bicester and Oxford in Brackley's case.

I was surprised when living in Sittingbourne, Kent, how few people from there worked, shopped or had any interest in Maidstone, the county town not many miles away and with a good connecting road. No wonder the only public transport between the two, a bus route, was hardly frequent nor with evening or Sunday service, and I don't think much has changed now, The Medway Towns, on the other hand...

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

There is, I think, another reason why longer distance services don't prosper like they used to which many people overlook... why would you go to town A when town B of similar size is nearer? Long gone are the days when each town offered a unique shopping experience... with few exceptions most town centres these days offer the same bland assortment of large chains, charity shops, betting shops, eateries and empty units. There just is no point in going those extra miles and paying an extra fare... unless, like Luton, your local town centre has a particularly ghastly undercover shopping arcade.

 

[radamfi]

I think the best way of putting it is that Hertfordshire is a county which is orientated east/ west but most of it's major traffic flows are north/ south

Given the high level of road congestion in the area, there are undoubtedly a lot of people travelling east-west, but by car. The railway lines are mostly north-south, meaning that neighbouring towns connected by rail lines probably have a greater proportion of people using public transport.

 

[A0]

Given the high level of road congestion in the area, there are undoubtedly a lot of people travelling east-west, but by car. The railway lines are mostly north-south, meaning that neighbouring towns connected by rail lines probably have a greater proportion of people using public transport.

But those East West journeys tend to be shortish - you still don't have people travelling from Rickmansworth to Royston or Hemel to Bishops Stortford.

Reinstating rail links won't happen (in this case) - for the simple reason they cost alot and will never generate the benefits needed, or the fact such links never existed to begin with - it's worth remembering the rail closures in Herts were:

St Albans - Hatfield, closed pre-Beeching. Can't be reinstated because the formation has gone all around the Galleria area. Also Hatfield station isn't in the town centre, nor are any of St Albans' stations.

WGC - Hertford, closed pre-Beeching. Unlikely to justify reinstatement because there simply isn't the volume of people wanting to travel between WGC and Hertford.

Harpenden - Hemel, closed pre Beeching. Formation lost through Hemel town centre. Hemel station is nowhere near the town centre. Only intermediate station was Redbourn which is a village. Unlikely to justify reinstatement.

WGC - Dunstable, closed in Beeching days, formation lost in several places. There isn't the demand for people travelling between WGC & Luton. Harpenden and Luton still rail connected, only Wheathampstead and Ayot lost out, neither big enough to justify reinstatement.

St Margarets - Buntingford - probably a line that should never have been built, served about 3 smallish places. Perhaps if it had been extended to Royston when built it would have been more viable, but wasn't then and isn't now.

Watford - Rickmansworth Church St - pre Beeching, replicated by Met.

Croxley Green branch - closed in 1980s. Often touted for reopening in some guise.

The only others which 'touched' Herts were Hitchin - Bedford and Bishops Stortford - Braintree, both largely run outside Herts.

Improving the road network in the right way could actually help the bus operators - not by squeezing capacity as at present, but instead by improving traffic flow all round, but that doesn't seem to be anyone's priority at the moment. But bus and coach journeys will always be relatively slow by virtue of having to pick up passengers at regular intervals.

 

[radamfi]

But those East West journeys tend to be shortish - you still don't have people travelling from Rickmansworth to Royston or Hemel to Bishops Stortford.

Reinstating rail links won't happen (in this case)

But you could develop quality express bus services that could take advantage of the A414, ideally with bus priority to skip the jams. For example, see the Qliner network in the north of the Netherlands, where express buses on motorways fill in the gaps in the railway network. It wouldn't be "commercial", of course, but a hell of lot cheaper than rail (re-)openings.