TransPennine Express North Route, New Timetable

[30907]

Thursday at Scarborough: 0835 arrival 21 minutes late, 0846 departure therefore 15 late and terminated at Huddersfield 78 late.

To be fair, I doubt the hour sat outside Church Fenton could have been anticipated.

The 1535 arrival into Scarborough / 1546 departure has been cancelled AGAIN.
So it has been cancelled on Monday, Tuesday and Friday this week.

The 1535/1546 must be a prime candidate for turning short because of the Leeds evening peak. In which case, it should also be a prime candidate for a planned alternative at least on Fridays - as yorkguy's report on loading flags up.

 

[IanXC]

I remember seeing mention of what would have been a Scarborough train being shown on the screens at Huddersfield as terminating at Malton, but on the other hand I recall a Scarborough train still being shown on RTT as terminating at Scarborough, even when the return working was already being shown as commencing at Malton, implying that passengers on the Scarborough train were kept in the dark until as late as possible.

1433 ex-Manchester Victoria now reported to have departed Malton at 1640, 31L. Glad I'm not on it!
Still shown as expected to depart Scarborough at 1646.

EDIT: Now showing as having arrived Scarborough 1701 and departed 1707 (21L). RTT was still showing an expected departure time of 1646 up to 1711, so I imagine the screens at Scarborough were saying simply 'DELAY'.

RTT uses TRUST data which is not collected and created with the purposes of providing information to passengers.

The time at which an amendment (such as terminating a train short) is input to TRUST, will be dictated by when the relevant TOC staff inform Network Rail, and when Network Rail input the amendment. This does not have any bearing whatsoever on what is shown on CIS at stations as this data managed on an entirely separate system.

Likewise the importing of a delay from one inbound service to its next working is not managed in TRUST, however the system that powers CIS can be set up to do this, and I would be surprised if Scarborough were not so configured.

Horses for courses. TRUST data is collected for particular purposes, which are not the ones you're trying to attribute to it!

 

[Bovverboy]

I wouldn't dream of going travelling without taking RTT with me, all the same.

 

[BeHereNow]

It seems when they don't operate the new timetable, performance is just fine. As you'd expect it to be with modern units!

 

[mike57]

Another bad morning for TPE, caught the 06:00 from Scarborough arrived 4L into Man Vic, then crawled round to Ox Rd, arriving 24L, needless to say turned at Man Pic, cue p****d off passengers with luggage facing a change to get to the airport.

 

[scarby]

Indeed, Mike, an absolute shambles.

Also yesterday, the 1835 arrival into Scarborough was 11 late - the subsequent 1850 departure that for some reason did not leave until 1903 was terminated at Huddersfield; the 1935 arrival was 23 minutes late with subsquent late running of the 1946 departure; the 2254 arrival was 13 minutes late and the 2335 arrival 16 minutes late.

 

[yorkguy]

A new week. 14.46 Sca to Victoria cancelled again as the inbound was turned at Malton, having arrived 30 minutes late

 

[Bovverboy]

Another bad morning for TPE, caught the 06:00 from Scarborough arrived 4L into Man Vic, then crawled round to Ox Rd, arriving 24L, needless to say turned at Man Pic, cue p****d off passengers with luggage facing a change to get to the airport.

Indeed, Mike, an absolute shambles.

There were huge delays in the Deansgate/Oxford Road/Piccadilly area this morning, in both directions. I haven't managed to establish what caused them, but they're not something TPE can be blamed for, there don't appear to have been any TPE trains in the vicinity at the time the delays were building up.

 

[scarby]

There were huge delays in the Deansgate/Oxford Road/Piccadilly area this morning, in both directions. I haven't managed to establish what caused them, but they're not something TPE can be blamed for, there don't appear to have been any TPE trains in the vicinity at the time the delays were building up.

I think most of us accept that there will sometimes be problems. However, the current timetable is already so pressurised/unworkable that when problems occur things become even worse than under the old timetable - schedules aren't being kept even on problem-free days. It's absolutely a daily occurence now for 4 weeks with delays and cancellations, and nothing has been done to fix it.

Also, I am fairly sure that, quite often at least, a spare unit used to be kept in the bay platform or somewhere at York for a "thunderbird"-style emergency service to Scarborough if a train was badly delayed heading into York - from time to time a service used to crop up starting at York in these circumstances. This seems to have vanished when it is most needed (i.e. now).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The whole route is a bit of a mess today, the 1522 (from Hudds) to Hull cancelled, the Scarborough just left 28 late and is being turned at York unsurprisingly.
With the old timetable, there were alternatives (a convenient connection at Brighouse for most local stations to Leeds). At least the Leeds terminator appears to be running on time which suggests an issue somewhere along the Victoria corridor.

 

[pdq]

On the 1622 HUD to Hull which is 38 late due to train crew being delayed.

 

[YorkshireBear]

On the 1622 HUD to Hull which is 38 late due to train crew being delayed.

I am on that too, think it’s later now. Apparently driver wasn’t told they had a train to drive and it was missed of their roster. Not sure how true that is. Still the delay repay on the season ticket continues to go up.

 

[mike57]

On 17:31 ex Man Vic headed for Seamer, left 1 min late, wonder how late by Seamer

 

[Bovverboy]

I think most of us accept that there will sometimes be problems. However, the current timetable is already so pressurised/unworkable that when problems occur things become even worse than under the old timetable - schedules aren't being kept even on problem-free days. It's absolutely a daily occurence now for 4 weeks with delays and cancellations, and nothing has been done to fix it.

'Mike57' admitted that the 0600 ex-Scarborough was only 4L into Manchester Victoria, so you're attempting to blame the timetable for a delay which it wasn't responsible for.

 

[Kieran1990]

On 17:31 ex Man Vic headed for Seamer, left 1 min late, wonder how late by Seamer

Was on the same train- all good to Hudds- 7L at Leeds and it was being held for the late XC HST when I alrighted
How’d it do?

 

[northernchris]

There's quite a few delays tonight due to a shortage of station staff at Leeds, which is a bit of an unusual reason! This is causing more early terminators as some services are more than half hour late

 

[Ih8earlies]

There's quite a few delays tonight due to a shortage of station staff at Leeds, which is a bit of an unusual reason! This is causing more early terminators as some services are more than half hour late

There's only 1x TPE despatcher on duty.

This led to there being at one point 6x trains being delayed at Leeds with another train parked up at a signal just outside the station waiting for a platform.

That despatcher had to have a break between 20:00 and 20:30 thus the delays.

 

[northernchris]

Poor planning from TPE then

 

[geoffk]

There's only 1x TPE despatcher on duty. This led to there being at one point 6x trains being delayed at Leeds with another train parked up at a signal just outside the station waiting for a platform. That despatcher had to have a break between 20:00 and 20:30 thus the delays.

What are the rules about which stations have train despatchers? Most large stations have them but also some small ones such as Salford Crescent. Blackburn doesn't have them; can't remember if Huddersfield has.

 

[Ih8earlies]

What are the rules about which stations have train despatchers? Most large stations have them but also some small ones such as Salford Crescent. Blackburn doesn't have them; can't remember if Huddersfield has.

Don't know.

As for TPE North Route, stations currently requiring despatch staff:
Liverpool lime St.
Manchester Vic.
Manchester Oxf Rd.
Manchester Picc.
Leeds.

Everywhere else on the north route is self despatch. With the exception of Newcastle Platform 12 which is currently in a limbo of its own. (Following a risk assesment - Self Despatch is not allowed from platform 12 and there are no despatch staff at Newcastle for TPE)

I've been told York will switch from self despatch to despatched by Platform staff later when 68/mk5a and 802's come in.

 

[Jonny]

Everywhere else on the north route is self despatch. With the exception of Newcastle Platform 12 which is currently in a limbo of its own. (Following a risk assesment - Self Despatch is not allowed from platform 12 and there are no despatch staff at Newcastle for TPE)

Which is rather surprising given that it is little different to Platform 10, where some services are booked to arrive/depart from, especially given that P10 was the scene of a significant incident a few years ago. Also Platform 12 happens to be outside the ticket barriers and doesn't tend to get used very often (if at all).

 

[Ih8earlies]

Which is rather surprising given that it is little different to Platform 10, where some services are booked to arrive/depart from, especially given that P10 was the scene of a significant incident a few years ago. Also Platform 12 happens to be outside the ticket barriers and doesn't tend to get used very often (if at all).

Both Platform 10 and 12 have similar curves. But unlike 10, Platform 12 has multiple entrance points that a person can approach a train from - possibly causing a PTI incident (Ticket Office, Toilets, Sainsburys, Staff block, Bike Racks etc)... many of which a conductor will be unable to monitor because of the platform curve.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Was on the same train- all good to Hudds- 7L at Leeds and it was being held for the late XC HST when I alrighted
How’d it do?

According to RTT
Away from Leeds 11L
Away from York 13L
Arr Scarborough 12L

Cheers
CW

 

[johntea]

I would love to know the person responsible for shoving several non Transpenine services to run from Platform 16 at Leeds, e.g. the 18:30 Northern to Sheffield via Castleford.

Completely bonkers trying to sandwich in a service like that between peak time Transpenine services which are often delayed themselves, there can be a crazy number of people stood around the platform!

 

[scarby]

The reliability of the service between Scarborough and York has been totally destroyed.

A cancellation doubles the journey time to/from Scarborough-York, and that's if the next train is on time, which it frequently isn't.

Add to that being completely unable to rely on the service for onward connections at York, or to get to Manchester Airport on time, which means having to plan to leave Scarborough at least an hour earlier, possible even two, if one wants to have any chance of making it to one's destination at the desired time.

Yesterday the 1046 from Scarborough was cancelled and the 1146 was 35 late at Manchester Victoria, meaning one would be running 95 late if planning to get to Manchester Airport using the 1046 service.

Four weeks of this and no sign of any improvement. Is this just going to continue indefinitely, and how are services going to function when the summer school holidays begin, with an upsurge in holiday passengers?

 

[Bikeman78]

I've been using TPE from Scarborough for probably 10 years now and I can only remember one occasion where a RRB was available at Malton. Prior to 20th May termination at Malton was unusual (may be 1 time a year to me and perhaps 1 per month total), since then it's been a daily occurrence, some days 2 or 3 times.

Why are they turning trains round at Malton when they have 40 minutes at the other end of the route at Manchester Victoria? They could come out of Scarborough late and still make booked departure time at Victoria.

 

[nr758123]

And not just Scarborough.

Today, for the stations between Huddersfield and Stalybridge which. like Scarborough, have only an hourly service, we have had (before even reaching the evening peak)

• the first TPE morning train into Manchester missing out Marsden, Greenfield and Mossley to make up time, even though it's a strike day so the preceding Northern service was also cancelled.
• an early afternoon train serving Slaithwaite and Mossley, and the return working, terminating/starting at Stalybridge.
• an early afternoon train running Leeds-Huddersfield only (i.e. cancelled at Marsden, Greenfield, Stalybridge and Piccadilly).

No mitigation by way of stop orders on expresses, even though TPE quite explicitly said this could be done. They were equally explicit in saying that the new timetable would be more resilient than the old one.

This is now what passes for a typical day.

Nothing by way of explanation, still less an apology.

 

[northernchris]

I would love to know the person responsible for shoving several non Transpenine services to run from Platform 16 at Leeds, e.g. the 18:30 Northern to Sheffield via Castleford.

Completely bonkers trying to sandwich in a service like that between peak time Transpenine services which are often delayed themselves, there can be a crazy number of people stood around the platform!

That's because the 1830 is now a 4 car pacer so is unable to use platform 17 as the 1838 Sheffield is on 17b. TPE services do use platform 12 quite often for northbound services which could free up platform 15 for southbound. TPE really should be having crowd management in place though, last Saturday I was trying to get to platform 17 and the amount of people stood on 16 made it almost impossible to get through!

 

[scarby]

The 0600 Scarborough to Manchester Airport was yet again cancelled between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport - the second time in three days this week, and it was 18 minutes late when it actually made it to the airport on Tuesday.

What is the point of introducing a 30-minute earlier first departure from Scarborough, supposedly enabling passengers to reach the airport 30 minutes earlier in the morning with the new service, when it is practically never on time and frequently doesn't even make it to the airport?

So in fact all this new service has provided so far in relation to the old (reliable) 0630 service is a necessity to be at Scarborough station 30 minutes earlier than before, with a strong possibility of getting to the airport later than with the former 0630 train. Absolutely hopeless.

 

[mike57]

I noticed 06:00 hadn't made it to the airport again. Looking at RTT the delay occurred slowly throughout the journey which points to a time table that isn't deliverable rather than one particular incident.

York bound train seems always to be given priority at Malton now even if Scarborough bound train is only 1 minute late, putting the 5 minute connections at Seamer in jeopardy.

TPE seem to be burying their heads in the sand and blaming every one else over the York Scarborough problems.