LM Service misses stop

[Danielo]

Got the service from Euston today to Harrow and Wealdstone. However, the driver went past the stop, despite the auto announcer saying that the next stop 'is Harrow and Wealdstone'

Then, on the digital display something along the lines of 'Will the driver please contact the conductor' or something like that.

The driver slowed down for Bushey, the conductor apologised for the service not stopping at H&W, but it didn't sound convincing. The train stopped at Bushey, and the H&W passengers headed back to Harrow on a London Overground service. Quite a few passengers had a go at the driver as I walked past the cab. I was not too fussed, I think the driver made an honest mistake.

 

[Bayum]

How does a driver "forget" to stop at a station?? Specially when it's timetabled on the service?

 

[MCR247]

Maybe he'd had a long shift?

 

[Ben]

Once again, well done on being a grass!

 

[Danielo]

How does a driver "forget" to stop at a station?? Specially when it's timetabled on the service?

Well if there are any drivers on here who may offer an explanation, that would be most welcome. The guard was aware that we had to stop at Harrow, and it did come up on the display.

 

[MCR247]

Once again, well done on being a grass!

Was that needed?

 

[Ferret]

While I take the point about careless talk, in all honesty questions would be asked when the TRUST report for the train is viewed by NR and LM Control so anything written on here in this case is somewhat academic....

 

[O L Leigh]

How does a driver "forget" to stop at a station?? Specially when it's timetabled on the service?

And you've never forgotten anything...?

The causes are many and complex. I recall seeing a video where an experienced SWT driver was induced into having a SPAD on a simulator simply by distracting him with an activated passcom and a subsequent discussion with the "guard" over what was required to be done as a result. He wasn't even aware he'd done it until he was stopped at a red further up the road and told by the "signaller", and even then he refused to believe it.

I'm not saying that would have been the case here, but it just goes to show just how easy it is to "forget" to do something important. It may seem unlikely to you, but then that's because you have no concept of precisely what the job requires. It just annoys me that this didn't stop you leaping to a conclusion.

O L Leigh

 

[Danielo]

Once again, well done on being a grass!

Thanks, but I am only reporting it. I'm actually on the driver's side, as I believe he made a genuine mistake - he is human!

He looked quite upset when the passengers were surrounding him and having a go at him. Anyway, it only added about 25 mins to the journey time.

 

[TrainBrain185]

Once again, well done on being a grass!

Agreed.
Lets not get rail staff into bother. As known in the WW2 times "loose lips sink ships" or rail staff.

 

[GB]

Thanks, but I am only reporting it. I'm actually on the driver's side, as I believe he made a genuine mistake - he is human!

He looked quite upset when the passengers were surrounding him and having a go at him. Anyway, it only added about 25 mins to the journey time.

Im not suprised! Some companies like to take disciplinary action in cases like this, even if it is a geniune mistake.

 

[O L Leigh]

I have a feeling that this might be an academic discussion anyway. The train was stopped additionally and passengers who were over-carried went back with another operator, adding around 25 minutes to the journey. This sounds like it was done "by the book" and will all have been recorded and logged.

That said, I am a little uncomfortable reading accounts like this where the individual service is identified. Why not just print the driver's name, for goodness sake. It could hardly make things any easier for management to identify the guilty party. I don't go as far as suggesting there's some sinister train driver equivalent of the Cosa Nostra vow of silence over incidents, but I'd feel far happier letting the railway sort out any mistakes that happen rather than trumpetting them loudly on a publicly accessible internet forum.

O L Leigh

 

[Daniel]

Danielo,

Even if you weren't intending to get the driver into trouble, showing the date, time, and which service it was, its pretty easy for the company to identify the driver.
Rail companies do monitor forums. After all, I believe the WSMR MD is on this forum..?

But yes, (not so much a problem on LU), but I can imagine that on NR it's pretty easy to forget to stop.

Using my local line as an example, say you drive two Stansted Express' then a Hertford. On the down road, first two times you go non-stop Liverpool Street to Tottenham Hale. The third time, your on the same track, same train, but this time your supposed to stop at Hackney Downs.

Lack of absolute concentration, or misreading the duty sheet... everyone makes mistakes!

 

[bengley]

Some LM trains don't stop at Harrow, is it possible that he usually does the non stop service and he just got mixed up?

 

[SWT Driver]

Firstly.

Congratulations Danielo, you could well have got someone a Form1 or the sack for putting that on here. :roll:

Secondly.

I have missed several stops in my time driving, all accidentally.

2x through misreading a schedule card.

1x because the schedule card didn't have the stops on it!

2x sliding through.

1x reason unknown, proven by OTMR & thorough investigation.

It can be quiet easy to misread a schedule card, especially if the shift is long and it's an early start, so a 0400 clock on, can mean getting up at between 0100 & 0300 depending on where you live in proximity to the depot.

A prime example of this is someone who lives on the IoW & works at Fratton, will have to catch the 0200 car ferry across & then do a days work, then get back again, it could be a 13hr day!

I know what that's like I used to do them until I moved back nearer to my current depot (something I regret doing, but that's not for public consumption!)

A late turn can be just as tiring and demanding too, being bleary eyed & mentally exhausted, it's easy to make a mistake & that applies to both early & late shifts.

Some of the shift patterns are quite severe, where one week you can be starting at 0430 & finishing at 1355, the next week you are starting at 1600 & finishing at 0145, only to end up the week after back on the 0400's starts again, your body clock really struggles to adjust!

The daftest one why I failed to call is they gave me a schedule card with just the start point, Waterloo on & the place I was going to get relieved at Woking, they didn't put any stops on it, so I went Non-Stop Waterloo - Woking, shame about the Surbiton, Walton-On-Thames, Weybridge stops that went out the window...

They couldn't bust me for it as I was following the detail that I was given, another one of my mates did Waterloo-Woking again Non-Stop for a similar reason, shame about the Clapham & Wimbledon stops, the Clapham stop was a genuine error, but the Wimbledon one, was again down to the fact they forgot to add it to the schedule card. :roll:

Slippery rails can also do it, even outside leaf-fall, it only needs some light rain/drizzle after a prolonged dry spell & the rails can be just like they are in leaf-fall conditions because of an oil & grease film contamination that's built up.

Don't get me wrong, it's not all about excuses at all, it's just unfortunately there's a big problem with drivers and that is we're all human & as we all know humans occasionally make mistakes.

 

[monkey]

Was that needed?

...I agree with this. if what the op says, there were clearly a lot of upset passengers, so I don't think it'd make the blindest bit of difference whether he posted his here or not. I'm sure lm would be well aware of what happened without perusing a forum for details, which may or may not be hearsay...

 

[SWT Driver]

Sometimes, it goes unnoticed. :roll:

It won't now though!

 

[bluenoxid]

Please remove post. Points made were good but feel it may not be liked by a number of parties after reflection

 

[monkey]

^^I'd be rather alarmed if it didn't - I would hope operators would be aware without passengers needing to tell them. I don't want the guy to lose his job, if it was a genuine mistake, but I do think its important for them to know what happened...

 

[Metroland]

Firstly.

Congratulations Danielo, you could well have got someone a Form1 or the sack for putting that on here. :roll:

Doubt it. As its been pointed out it appears on the trust report the timings are skew. I highly suspect some of the passengers made complaints as well. Not only that, the signallers and probably the signalbox supervisor at Wembley noticed as well, and logged the issue with the TOC control.

The incident is playable back on the Trust report, Signal box interlocking data recorder and various overviews in route control, which can be played back.

 

[O L Leigh]

In this case, perhaps not.

However, the general point still stands. Contrary to what some of the industry outsiders are confidently claiming, management do read the various railway forums. Equally it is possible that a driver who has made a mistake might be sitting quietly hoping that no-one notices. To have the mistake loudly trumpetted on a public internet forum could indeed lead to a Form 1, as SWT Driver correctly says.

O L Leigh

 

[Metroland]

In this case, perhaps not.

However, the general point still stands. Contrary to what some of the industry outsiders are confidently claiming, management do read the various railway forums.
O L Leigh

They do yes, lots of people you might not expect do. Just glad I'm not an employee.

 

[O L Leigh]

Steady. You're freaking me out now.

O L Leigh

 

[Metroland]

LOL Well I don't know anything specific, but common sense dictates that they would. Most companies monitor the internet to find out what people think of their products and services. I would also expect the media and DfT to have a look as well. We've all heard the stories about people being kicked out their homes for having parties in rented accommodation on facebook and being sacked for 'slagging customers off on the internet'.

I can get away with a certain amount, because I have no plans to do any more railway work, but there's some things in the national interest, even I wouldn't post It just wouldn't be cricket, and certainly naming names is out or identifying people through circumstance. So yep, i guess i see the objection.

 

[Tom B]

The detail has been removed from the first post.

In this case, I think if you were genuinely put out by the incident and wish something to be done about it, then the TOC in question would have some complaints procedure which you can follow.

 

[O L Leigh]

In this case, I think if you were genuinely put out by the incident and wish something to be done about it, then the TOC in question would have some complaints procedure which you can follow.

That would always be my default position in circumstances such as this. I'd like to think it's something we can all remember in the future.

O L Leigh

 

[Pumbaa]

I'm amused by the fact that an incident like this has been reported on the forum before various times by various people, yet this is the first one that the OP has been given this much flak.

As other railway staff have testified, it's a common enough situation for procedures both practical for pax and disciplinary cum management for staff to be put in place, so I don't see why there seems to be the issue of it being reported. Staff would either report back, or wait until it was spotted by OTMR. Management reading it would simply be carrying out their job correctly if they were to then act on the information they received, whether it be from OTMR or from reading it elsewhere.

 

[yorkie]

Once again, well done on being a grass!

You are not suggesting that the guard/driver failed to report this are you?

If you are not suggesting that, then your post makes absolutely no sense at all.

I'll be very interested to read your response.

 

[Metroland]

I'm amused by the fact that an incident like this has been reported on the forum before various times by various people, yet this is the first one that the OP has been given this much flak.

As other railway staff have testified, it's a common enough situation for procedures both practical for pax and disciplinary cum management for staff to be put in place, so I don't see why there seems to be the issue of it being reported. Staff would either report back, or wait until it was spotted by OTMR. Management reading it would simply be carrying out their job correctly if they were to then act on the information they received, whether it be from OTMR or from reading it elsewhere.

Oh its been spotted, I think what the others are concerned about is lining the driver up for further flak by posting the exact circumstances on a public forum in public glare. Not sure we can say for sure whether that would make it worse for the person concerned, but just eerring on the side of caution.

 

[yorkie]

Congratulations Danielo, you could well have got someone a Form1 or the sack for putting that on here. :roll:

Surely there is no suggestion that drivers fail to report such incidents, as they are required to do?

I have missed several stops in my time driving, all accidentally.....

Isn't it a good thing that those things came to light? It can help ensure report cards are improved, help ensure that drivers are not required to drive excessive hours, help ensure report cards are always provided, help ensure drivers are given the support they need etc.. if all incidents of a train failing to call were hushed up, it wouldn't have made the railways any better. Quite the opposite I am sure.