Northern's "Promise to Pay" query

[61653 HTAFC]

Much discussion has taken place about Northern's new Penalty Fares regime and in particular the "Promise to pay" vouchers available at card-only TVMs. This system (effectively a modern version of the Permit to Travel) may or may not throw up an issue for me, and I've been unable to find an answer... so here goes:

I use a zones 2-5 MCard, and prior to the timetable change if I was going to Leeds I would board at Batley (my home station) either of the Northern stoppers with my MCard which was valid as far as Cottingley or Morley. When the guard came down I'd purchase a day return from Cottingley (Morley if my service skipped Cottingley or I wanted the flexibility on my return) to Leeds. No problem there... but:

The new service pattern now means one of the trains is non-stop to Leeds and the other calls only at Morley, so even if I get the slower service Cottingley is no longer an option. As TVMs only sell tickets originating from that station (as always) I'm unable to buy my add-on before boarding. This raises two questions: firstly, if I board with a promise to pay from Batley, am I obligated to buy a ticket with Batley as the origin, or will TPE guards be able to issue a Morley to Leeds ticket despite me boarding (with a valid ticket) a stop earlier?

Secondly, by boarding without a ticket for the whole journey I intend to make, am I liable to be penalised despite fully intending to pay for my whole journey? Particularly if I don't also obtain a promise to pay voucher?
I don't mind paying my way, but I won't pay twice and don't wish to fall foul of a technicality!

 

[scrapy]

Much discussion has taken place about Northern's new Penalty Fares regime and in particular the "Promise to pay" vouchers available at card-only TVMs. This system (effectively a modern version of the Permit to Travel) may or may not throw up an issue for me, and I've been unable to find an answer... so here goes:

I use a zones 2-5 MCard, and prior to the timetable change if I was going to Leeds I would board at Batley (my home station) either of the Northern stoppers with my MCard which was valid as far as Cottingley or Morley. When the guard came down I'd purchase a day return from Cottingley (Morley if my service skipped Cottingley or I wanted the flexibility on my return) to Leeds. No problem there... but:

The new service pattern now means one of the trains is non-stop to Leeds and the other calls only at Morley, so even if I get the slower service Cottingley is no longer an option. As TVMs only sell tickets originating from that station (as always) I'm unable to buy my add-on before boarding. This raises two questions: firstly, if I board with a promise to pay from Batley, am I obligated to buy a ticket with Batley as the origin, or will TPE guards be able to issue a Morley to Leeds ticket despite me boarding (with a valid ticket) a stop earlier?

Secondly, by boarding without a ticket for the whole journey I intend to make, am I liable to be penalised despite fully intending to pay for my whole journey? Particularly if I don't also obtain a promise to pay voucher?
I don't mind paying my way, but I won't pay twice and don't wish to fall foul of a technicality!

Penalty fares and promise to pay don't apply to TPE services anyway.

 

[Clip]

Penalty fares and promise to pay don't apply to TPE services anyway.

this but if going via northern on any other route elsewhere then i would get the promise to pay before you board to ensure you can prove that you have a ticket of some sort before you travel.

 

[pdq]

Notwithstanding the difficulty purchasing the ticket, I thought the Conditions of Travel removed the necessity for the train to stop at the changeover point when using a 2-5 Mcard (which, I assume, is classed as an area based ticket):

If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.​

Therefore, a Cottingley - Leeds ticket is all that's required no matter what the stopping pattern is.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Penalty fares and promise to pay don't apply to TPE services anyway.

Ah, that does make sense- though I felt the waters had been muddied to a point by both operators serving some local stops between Leeds and Mirfield. I was aware that Northern were responsible for the scheme, though wasn't sure of the situation regarding Batley as it is still a Northern-managed station despite almost all services being provided by TPE.

Notwithstanding the difficulty purchasing the ticket, I thought the Conditions of Travel removed the necessity for the train to stop at the changeover point when using a 2-5 Mcard (which, I assume, is classed as an area based ticket):

If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.​

Therefore, a Cottingley - Leeds ticket is all that's required no matter what the stopping pattern is.

Good to know, thanks! I assume that this also applies to all other routes from Leeds- so if I was heading to Wakefield Westgate I'd be fine with a Cottingley to Outwood ticket even if using VTEC/LNER from Leeds to Wakefield?