Brighton to East Midlands Parkway during current Thameslink turmoil

[Bungaroosh]

In theory I'm travelling from Brighton to East Midlands Parkway on Tuesday (12th June) to arrive around 10am. I had planned to leave Brighton on the 06:47 Thameslink to St Pancras but this service has vanished from the timetable since I bought the Advance ticket: £36.00 advance single, connections (with † symbol) + booked train departing STP 08:31, arr. East Mids Pkwy at 09:55.

I've resigned myself now to getting to Brighton station around 6am and getting to St Pancras by whatever means possible to catch that 08:31 train. I would normally avoid the Victoria Line between Victoria and St Pancras like the plague but I'm hoping it'll actually be get-on-able at around 7.15am.

I'll be returning to Brighton the day after, but I don't know what time I'll be finished work. So I'll be buying a Super Off Peak Single from East Mids Pkwy to St Pancras. On arrival in London I'd like to keep my options open given the Thameslink chaos, so I'm wondering whether a Brighton to Zones 1-6 Travelcard ["Thameslink Only"] will be valid on Southern and Gatwick Express departures from Victoria. This seems to be stated quite clearly as a "Yes" on Thameslink's website, but there are reports on this forum of gate staff saying company Twitter statements are wrong, and therefore possibly also things posted on websites.

What are my travel alternatives?
You may use your tickets on the following services:

Mutual ticket acceptance is in place between Southern, Thameslink and Great Northern.
London Underground via any reasonable route.
London Buses via any reasonable route.
London Overground via any reasonable route.
London Tramlink between East Croydon and Wimbledon.
[...]

They have introduced ticket acceptance with Gatwick Express between London Victoria and Brighton to accommodate cancellations, including for passengers travelling to and from Gatwick Airport. [sic. This is the exact wording on their website. They don't say who "they" are.]
Link

I don't foresee problems getting through the barriers at Victoria as the ticket will be a Z1-6 Travelcard, but I wonder what to say during a ticket inspection on Southern/Gatwick Express or if challenged at the Brighton gateline. I would hope a screengrab of the website would suffice, but I'm not relying on this ...

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

In theory I'm travelling from Brighton to East Midlands Parkway on Tuesday (12th June) to arrive around 10am. I had planned to leave Brighton on the 06:47 Thameslink to St Pancras but this service has vanished from the timetable since I bought the Advance ticket: £36.00 advance single, connections (with † symbol) + booked train departing STP 08:31, arr. East Mids Pkwy at 09:55.

I've resigned myself now to getting to Brighton station around 6am and getting to St Pancras by whatever means possible to catch that 08:31 train. I would normally avoid the Victoria Line between Victoria and St Pancras like the plague but I'm hoping it'll actually be get-on-able at around 7.15am.

I'll be returning to Brighton the day after, but I don't know what time I'll be finished work. So I'll be buying a Super Off Peak Single from East Mids Pkwy to St Pancras. On arrival in London I'd like to keep my options open given the Thameslink chaos, so I'm wondering whether a Brighton to Zones 1-6 Travelcard ["Thameslink Only"] will be valid on Southern and Gatwick Express departures from Victoria. This seems to be stated quite clearly as a "Yes" on Thameslink's website, but there are reports on this forum of gate staff saying company Twitter statements are wrong, and therefore possibly also things posted on websites.

I don't foresee problems getting through the barriers at Victoria as the ticket will be a Z1-6 Travelcard, but I wonder what to say during a ticket inspection on Southern/Gatwick Express or if challenged at the Brighton gateline. I would hope a screengrab of the website would suffice, but I'm not relying on this ...

'Thameslink only' can legally only refer to 'Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd. only', as there is no provision in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement for flow setters to set restrictions by brand, only by TOC.

Therefore, even in the absence of their website's clear permission to travel without what some railway staff may deem a 'valid' ticket (by breaking the unlawful attempted brand restrictions), you would still be perfectly permitted to take any GTR train.

 

[Hadders]

I agree with @ForTheLoveOf however I would not expect a hassle free journey using a Brighton - London Zones 1-6 on a GTR Gatwick Express branded service.

I'd buy a Kentish Town - Brighton Off Peak Day Single at £23.10. It's routed '+ Any Permitted' so will give you the flexibility you need and is slightly cheaper than the travelcard you are considering.

 

[Bungaroosh]

Ah. Thanks very much Hadders. I always forget about the Kentish Town ticket option!

 

[Samuel88]

'Thameslink only' can legally only refer to 'Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd. only', as there is no provision in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement for flow setters to set restrictions by brand, only by TOC.

Therefore, even in the absence of their website's clear permission to travel without what some railway staff may deem a 'valid' ticket (by breaking the unlawful attempted brand restrictions), you would still be perfectly permitted to take any GTR train.

Why do people on this forum continue to say this about Thameslink only tickets? Yes technically you may be right but the sheer hassle it will cause would put people (including me) off.

 

[Bungaroosh]

On the other hand, it also states here that Thameslink tickets are accepted on London Underground, Southern and Gatwick Express during the timetable disruption ... I could save my client a fiver!
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/191459.aspx

 

[mmh]

'Thameslink only' can legally only refer to 'Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd. only', as there is no provision in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement for flow setters to set restrictions by brand, only by TOC.

Therefore, even in the absence of their website's clear permission to travel without what some railway staff may deem a 'valid' ticket (by breaking the unlawful attempted brand restrictions), you would still be perfectly permitted to take any GTR train.

Good lord, will people never stop with this? Armchair lawyers are very dangerous people, and usually wrong.

The only thing that matters right now to the person is "can I use that ticket on a differently branded train going the same way". And the answer, right now, is yes. Print the page saying it on the website if you're worried. personally, I wouldn't bother.

 

[Bungaroosh]

I'm hoping that I can at least get a Thameslink from St Pancras to East Croydon on the way back to avoid the stinking Victoria Line.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Good lord, will people never stop with this? Armchair lawyers are very dangerous people, and usually wrong.

The only thing that matters right now to the person is "can I use that ticket on a differently branded train going the same way". And the answer, right now, is yes. Print the page saying it on the website if you're worried. personally, I wouldn't bother.

Am I wrong?

 

[Bungaroosh]

Hmm, a Twitter user reported on Sun 3rd June:

I have the worst #thameslink story yet

all KingsX - Brighton trains cancelled. Had prepaid tickets. Told by staff to travel on any train from Victoria. Got on a @GatwickExpress (as instructed) inspector claimed no knowledge of @TLRailUK cancellations.Charged £40 for a new ticket​

https://twitter.com/missfoodie88/status/1003204019261714432

 

[Bungaroosh]

And Gatwick Express are saying:

Hi. Just to clarify, ticket acceptance is only in place for @TLRailUK customers if the previous/following train has been cancelled.
https://twitter.com/GatwickExpress/status/1006083992905449472​

So how the heck is that going to work for passengers struggling down from St Pancras/Farringdon etc. on the tube?

 

[gordonthemoron]

It seems like GTR have a death wish

 

[mmh]

And Gatwick Express are saying:

Hi. Just to clarify, ticket acceptance is only in place for @TLRailUK customers if the previous/following train has been cancelled.
https://twitter.com/GatwickExpress/status/1006083992905449472​

So how the heck is that going to work for passengers struggling down from St Pancras/Farringdon etc. on the tube?

Wait, what? If you the train I'm either booked on or intending to travel on is cancelled what on earth has the previous train running or not got to do with anything? It was in the past!

They put that on twitter today, when the Thameslink website has said for days ticket acceptance is across all 3 GTR brands. I don't know what it said when that poor person was made to buy a new ticket, but the replies from GX to them are outrageous.

Time someone in charge tells all their staff to ignore all ticket restrictions until they actually run the timetable they promised.

In the meantime, people should just refuse to accept being refused travel or being charged extra or being penalty fared . Tell a jobsworth to get the BTP out if they insist.

Of course, the jobsworths know that most people will just give in to them in the interest of a quiet life and actually getting where they wanted to. Completely disgraceful.

 

[mmh]

I see they've removed the Gatwick Express ticket acceptance bit from their websites. I think I took a screen grab of it yesterday, unfortunately on a computer I won't have access to til tomorrow.

Utter shysters with what's starting to look like contempt for passengers.

 

[Bungaroosh]

I see they've removed the Gatwick Express ticket acceptance bit from their websites. I think I took a screen grab of it yesterday, unfortunately on a computer I won't have access to til tomorrow.

Utter shysters with what's starting to look like contempt for passengers.

I took a screen grab of it on my phone. The haphazard wording of it was:

They have introduced ticket acceptance with Gatwick Express between London Victoria and Brighton to accommodate cancellations, including for passengers travelling to and from Gatwick Airport.​

Same garbled wording was on National Rail website an' all.

Now they're saying that passengers who've trekked down from St Pancras / Farringdon / City Thameslink etc. because of cancelled Thameslink trains have to have discussions with gate staff at Victoria to see whether they are permitted to travel on Gatwick Express. It's a total mess.

Some more cobblers hot off the press:

-- Commuter‏ @HSSCKSCommuter
@TLRailUK @GatwickExpress can you please clarify your acceptance policy? I travel from Hassocks which has many peak cancellations / removal from timetable. When can I get a GE train? If a preceding Thameslink has been cancelled? If one’s been removed from timetable altogether?

-- Thameslink‏ @TLRailUK
Replying to @HSSCKSCommuter
Hi there, if there is a considerable gap in service, ticket acceptance is in place. We are advising all passengers to check with station staff ^Nafisa

-- Commuter‏ @HSSCKSCommuter
‘considerable’ is not all that helpful. Is that two trains? Is that 15, 30 mins? Is that against the published or amended timetable? I know you social media guys are having a tough time but please pass on the extreme frustration. It’s worse than the issues on Southern of 2017!

​

 

[talldave]

No doubt the wording of the ticket acceptance policy will be amended whilst the level of abuse passengers will receive from the red Gestapo at Victoria is bedding in ?

 

[mrmartin]

GTR have always done this. There was some emergency engineering work at very short notice near brighton. They refused to let me on a Gatwick express, and had to wait 1hr+ for the next thameslink/southern service (which was packed to the rafters, while another GatEx left empty).

It's absolutely bonkers that in times of disruption they don't allow people to use the other brands in their own company. I sent a complaint and they were totally uninterested, and even said their own twitter team was wrong and they shouldn't be listened to (they said I could get on, Boards and gateline staff said I couldn't).

Completely pointless & ridiculous.

 

[BluePenguin]

GTR have always done this. There was some emergency engineering work at very short notice near brighton. They refused to let me on a Gatwick express, and had to wait 1hr+ for the next thameslink/southern service (which was packed to the rafters, while another GatEx left empty).

It's absolutely bonkers that in times of disruption they don't allow people to use the other brands in their own company. I sent a complaint and they were totally uninterested, and even said their own twitter team was wrong and they shouldn't be listened to (they said I could get on, Boards and gateline staff said I couldn't).

Completely pointless & ridiculous.

Well why didn't you get on anyway? Surely gateline staff were busy checking other people's tickets to notice which train you got on.

 

[JB_B]

​

I took a screen grab of it on my phone. The haphazard wording of it was:

They have introduced ticket acceptance with Gatwick Express between London Victoria and Brighton to accommodate cancellations, including for passengers travelling to and from Gatwick Airport.​

Same garbled wording was on National Rail website an' all.

Now they're saying that passengers who've trekked down from St Pancras / Farringdon / City Thameslink etc. because of cancelled Thameslink trains have to have discussions with gate staff at Victoria to see whether they are permitted to travel on Gatwick Express. It's a total mess.

Some more cobblers hot off the press:

-- Commuter‏ @HSSCKSCommuter
@TLRailUK @GatwickExpress can you please clarify your acceptance policy? I travel from Hassocks which has many peak cancellations / removal from timetable. When can I get a GE train? If a preceding Thameslink has been cancelled? If one’s been removed from timetable altogether?

-- Thameslink‏ @TLRailUK
Replying to @HSSCKSCommuter
Hi there, if there is a considerable gap in service, ticket acceptance is in place. We are advising all passengers to check with station staff ^Nafisa

-- Commuter‏ @HSSCKSCommuter
‘considerable’ is not all that helpful. Is that two trains? Is that 15, 30 mins? Is that against the published or amended timetable? I know you social media guys are having a tough time but please pass on the extreme frustration. It’s worse than the issues on Southern of 2017!

​

Amazingly, it seems GTR to have finally sorted themselves out on GatEx ticket acceptance - a new Fares Brief was issued 12/6/2018 which seems unequivocal :-

"...
With immediate effect until 31st August 2018:

Valid 'Thameslink Only' routed season,single and return tickets can be used on any Gatwick Express, Southern or Thameslink train service that will enable them to complete their journey.

Valid 'Southern Only' routed season,single and return tickets can be used on any Gatwick Express, Southern or Thameslink train service that will enable them to complete their journey.

Valid 'Not Gatwick Express' routed season,single and return tickets can be used on any Gatwick Express, Southern or Thameslink train service that will enable them to complete their journey.


Normal time restrictions on the use of tickets and Railcards will remain in place.
..."


( Taken from this post by JaJaWa: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ble-from-may-20th.164547/page-74#post-3506288 )


Also includes advice to sell the cheaper Thameslink Only tickets for BML GatEx journeys (see FAQ 1).

Next time I'm at Brighton station (today or tomorrow) I'll be checking to see if the ticket machines have been updated to reflect this.

 

[JB_B]

...
Also includes advice to sell the cheaper Thameslink Only tickets for BML GatEx journeys (see FAQ 1).

Next time I'm at Brighton station (today or tomorrow) I'll be checking to see if the ticket machines have been updated to reflect this.

Just had a quick look - seems like they haven't.