Loony busway will be complete in October

[Mojo]

New Transit magazine reports that contractors on the Cambridgeshire misguided busway will be handed over in October. It's behind schedule due to issues with noise barriers and other planning issues, plus bad weather.

TransportXtra subscribers can get the full story here.

 

[generalvegitable]

They should have used the road rail experiment in the 70's/80's (I can't remember which) and that would have made the route much more useful

edit:
lol at one of cambridge's newspaper's comments:

BRAIN SMITH CALLS THAT "A MUCH NEEDED SCHEME". WHAT HE DOSEN'T ADMIT IS IT'S A WASTE OF MONEY, THERE ARE STILL TOO MANY LORRIES CAUSING ACCIDENTS ON THE A14. WE NEED RAILWAYS TO CONTROL THIS.

 

[jopsuk]

Don't know what the rest of that article says, buth the southern (Station-Addenbrookes) sections is still a long way off completion.

 

[jon0844]

Wow, it's like a game.. complete the sentence!

My go:

However, the October date is significantly behind schedule, with construction of the scheme having been...

a complete and utter success, far surpassing initial expectations and being absolutely wonderful.

 

[gingerheid]

I love the fact that they keep saying how quickly people will be able to get from [place] to the Science Park using the northern busway.

But apparently there's not much demand for people to travel from [place] to the Science Park, as if there was there'd be a direct bus already, and the council wouldn't have withdrawn subsidy for the X14 service because it was carrying only a pathetic number of passengers...

No. Most people are going to be going to Cambridge. Instead of joining the roads at Girton or Histon and then crawling through traffic to the centre they are going to wizz along the busway to Milton and then... erm... crawl roughly the same distance though traffic to the centre. Nice one.

[Here starts a very local rant that nobody will understand unless from Cambridge...]

It's also telling that the Trumpington and Babraham P&R services aren't going on the southern busway. If the busway was any use, and if any two services were going to use it, then it should be these ones.

They tick all the boxes: They are high frequency prestige services. They are for end to end journeys only , so going along an old railway line and missing out current stops on the roads in between isn't an issue. The busway goes straight to soooo close to both their destinations at both ends. The busway would also allow them Babraham service to still call at Addenbrookes Hospital, it's other main destination.

So why are they going to carry on using their current routes? Because it would be slower? Because it would be less reliable? Because the capacity of the busway is too low? Because secretly the council know the busway isn't any use?

If the southern stretch isn't going to see these services, then what services is it going to see?

It is a fast way to speed buses to places like Haverhill out the city? Apparently not.

No - the only services the southern stretch is going to see are a bus every 20 mins to Trumpington and every 20 mins to Addenbrookes. Who would use them? Who would stand at a different stop to the services that run every ten mins or more in order to catch a less frequent service?

 

[Metroland]

Well more delay for a politically motivated project..

http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/news/story?id=6137

Why the reckoned the railway would cost more is anyone's guess, certainly not in terms of materials. I note the busway uses 'During the past two years BAM Nuttall has laid 5,700 concrete guideway slabs, each weighing 30 tonnes, along the 12-mile route'

So that's 171,000 tonnes of concrete! A double track railway would have needed:

500 tonnes of ballast per mile
425 tonnes of rail per mile, to UIC 60kg standards
3500 tonnes of sleepers per mile

So around 53,000 tonnes of material for the project, or less than 1/3 of the materials for the busway. I don't believe track and ballast is any harder to lay than a concrete busway.

Sure you would have needed a signalling system, but a simple 2 aspect system would have sufficed, maybe stop signals every 4 miles, providing a 4-9 min headway, costing no more than £25 million, which would have included a simple crossover at St Ives and connection to the mainline. I doubt any more than a 1/2 hourly service would have been needed by say class 170. The stations surely wouldn't cost much more than the bus stops, especially modular with pre-fab platforms.

The loads would have been so light it would have needed minimal maintenance over 40 years.

 

[Aictos]

Talking of the line if it still remained a railway line, how many DMUs are used on a day to day basis between Paddington and Greenford?

Would I be right in thinking it's only 2 units just trundling back and forth all day?

If so, were 170s really needed - surely 156s would have suffice until more modern DMUs were available?

 

[Metroland]

Yep, it's just 2 DMUs on the Greenford Branch. Trains would be more expensive than buses, though they last far longer. But you'd probably get a better modal shift and direct connections to the science park.

We shall have to see how it works out, but already 3 more busways have been authorised at Bath, Luton and Portsmouth, over disused railways.

Despite buses and coaches having 24 times more right of way to use (243,000 miles v 10,000 miles aprox) than rail and dedicated lanes in many cases yet have similar passenger KMs to rail, lord only knows why we are wasting future opportunities to reopen lines that could carry freight and passengers. Especially as the big problem on the A14 is trucks. I suspect this is some misguised notion they are cheaper, despite not normally having to pay for any right of way and getting a 80-100% tax refund, nor do bus passengers have the assistance and rights rail passengers do.

 

[asylumxl]

We shall have to see how it works out, but already 3 more busways have been authorised at Bath, Luton and Portsmouth, over disused railways.

Which disused railyway would this be at Luton?

The Luton -> Dunstable railway?

 

[Aictos]

Which disused railyway would this be at Luton?

The Luton -> Dunstable railway?

It is indeed, pity the powers to be are more interested in busways then reopening the lines - trains are more eco friendly, carry a lot more passengers and can help take more cars/trucks off the road easing some of the congestion on our roads.

 

[asylumxl]

It is indeed, pity the powers to be are more interested in busways then reopening the lines - trains are more eco friendly, carry a lot more passengers and can help take more cars/trucks off the road easing some of the congestion on our roads.

That's quite sad really. The bridges are in great nick and I think theres even still some track around.

 

[jopsuk]

Oh crikey, it just gets better.

When the bus is on the track you must purchase your ticket before you board the bus from the ticket machine, much like you would a train. When buying your ticket you must decide if you are travelling with Stagecoach or Whippet as tickets cannot be transferred. When guided buses are on normal roads you can buy your ticket from the driver as you get on.

 

[starrymarkb]

So they are going for a bodge of the German system (buy ticket before you board) but without the common ticketing (which the competition commision views as a cartel) or indeed installing machines at existing stops (the Germans have a self service machine on the bus for stops without working machines)

 

[jamesontheroad]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Sorry, just had to get that out of my system

This will, at least, make it even less popular with potential users, which in my crazed, angry and bitter eyes is a good thing ...

 

[jopsuk]

I wonder if they'll have "next bus" indicators that show the operator (when working)?

To be honest, it does highlight the utter mess that bus ticketing is in this country.

 

[mumrar]

Now, without touching on whether bus or train should have been picked, this whole scenario is what enrages me. We brought engineering to this modern dynasty via the industrial revolution. In 1891 we opened the Forth Bridge, 5 years before that the Severn tunnel. We have such a rich and diverse history of magnificent and competent engineering, and now we can't even build a footbridge that doesn't wobble because of pedestrians. Costs spiral out of control like a cow caught in a tornado, and we are the laughing stock of the world. The kind of people in charge of this project are also going to be in charge of the Olympics. Be afraid. We're following China, remember that opening ceremony? We may as well set some pikeys loose with fireworks, and have Boris Johnson naked, with a bell on his cock and one of those light up rotating bow ties. Isn't time we dropped the Great from Great Britain until we showed enough backbone and drive to earn it back?
Blimey, that's a bit off topic eh?

 

[jon0844]

We may as well set some pikeys loose with fireworks, and have Boris Johnson naked, with a bell on his cock and one of those light up rotating bow ties.

The opening ceremony details were meant to be kept secret.

 

[gingerheid]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Sorry, just had to get that out of my system

This will, at least, make it even less popular with potential users, which in my crazed, angry and bitter eyes is a good thing ...

It's not completely hilariously stupid.

Completely hilariously stupid would be if the two companies that aren't going to accept each other's tickets were going to paint their buses in the same livery.

Oh. Wait. They are...

It's almost like they've got a really warped sense of humour and they really hate passengers and they're trying to think up things they could do to p them off.

 

[Mojo]

Should imagine the majority of bus users will be OAPs on freebie passes who can use any bus company.

 

[jopsuk]

True, Mojo, but I really wonder why, if the ticketing will be going to inter-operator smart-card at some point, why they can't just do "buy on board" on the guided section as well as street sections until they have the new tickets sorted?

Of course, reversing the policy of no fare-cooperation and introducing fare regulation (ie, somewhat like the railways) would then allow the option of inter-operator tickets anyway, with a usage based settlement plan.

 

[gordonthemoron]

what happens when the ticket machines are broken?

 

[Metroland]

You have to wonder why not just use the current buses. According to the blurb:

From St Ives Park and Ride it will take just 20 minutes to get to The Science Park and 33 minutes to get to Cambridge City Centre. It will take only ten minutes to get to The Science Park from Longstanton Park and Ride. And there will be 6 buses per hour.

Well, current timetables show 2 main operators (who will both be using the busway). Whippet currently take more or less exactly the same time, and run 2 buses per hour.

http://www.go-whippet.co.uk/pdfs/1A service Timetable_for web.pdf

Stagecoach run three buses per hour, taking more a less the same time.

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/timetables/55Aug09.pdf

So really what you are getting for your £120 million is one extra bus per hour (which could run anyway).

 

[jon0844]

Should imagine the majority of bus users will be OAPs on freebie passes who can use any bus company.

Majority? More like only!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So really what you are getting for your £120 million is one extra bus per hour (which could run anyway).

By the usual Government & Local Government overspend rates, that's quite a bargain!

No doubt the bright, shiny buses will be looking rather decrepit in 4-5 years and there won't be any money to renew them. Buses don't generally last as long as a well maintained train do they?

 

[jamesontheroad]

what happens when the ticket machines are broken?

Sounds to me like a cushy bus-drivers-union deal. If the is/was supposed to drive itself on the busway then the drivers aren't going to lift a fat finger to do anything else when they're on it...

 

[O L Leigh]

Especially as the big problem on the A14 is trucks.

Firstly let me say that I'm still a bit ambivalent towards the Cambridge Busway so am not arguing for one side against the other. However, I am local enough to know that the busway is only going to be of use to a minority of A14 users.

It's not just the lorries that make this stretch of road as congested as it is or turn it into an accident black-spot. The A14 between Cambridge and Huntingdon is a major trunk route in it's own right linking East Anglia with the Midlands and North. It's a route I use myself on a regular basis and have done for many years. The busway is going to be of little or no use to me whatsoever.

But this is the nub of the problem. A heavy (or even light) rail link would be equally useless. How are you going to take the lorries off this stretch of road? By concentrating solely on the problems of the A14 misses the point that all of these HGV's have come from somewhere and are on their way somewhere else with the A14 being only a tiny leg in their longer journey. You can't take road freight off the A14 without a concerted initiative to get road freight off all the UK's roads. The same holds true for the majority of private car traffic on this stretch of road. You cannot treat the A14 (or, indeed, any road) entirely in isolation.

Quite honestly unless there is some major national initiative to shift people and goods off the roads and onto the rails, any alternative transport scheme to alleviate congestion along this stretch of the A14 is going to fail to meet it's objectives. What is really needed is for the authorities to start treating it like the major trunk route that it is and upgrade the road accordingly. There needs to be a third lane along the entire length and the various junctions need to be upgraded to improve safety. Ideally they would also need to bypass Fenstanton a bit better to avoid those bends.

O L Leigh

 

[jon0844]

Is it dual carriageway all along the route now? If so, the simple introduction of a no overtaking rule at peak hours may be able to help keep traffic moving?

I don't know the road well enough, but lorries trying to overtake each other with a variance of speed at about 1mph is usually a major cause of traffic, road rage and accidents caused by motorists that feel compelled (rightly or wrongly) to speed in order to make up lost time.

I've seen the odd road in the UK with such restrictions, but we're way behind mainland Europe where it is used frequently.

 

[starrymarkb]

And IME was routinely ignored....

 

[jopsuk]

I've seen the odd road in the UK with such restrictions,

This includes a section of the A14 west of the A1, as it happens.

Think the remodelling plans for the Cambridge-Huntingdon section are staggering slowly forwards (including remodelling the awful junction at the M11, where traffic from the Felixstowe direction heading towards Huntingdon(ie STAYING ON THE A14!) has to physically cross traffic from the M11 attempting to head eastbound. It's a horrible little section. Nightmare in terms of road design.

 

[Metroland]

Firstly let me say that I'm still a bit ambivalent towards the Cambridge Busway so am not arguing for one side against the other. However, I am local enough to know that the busway is only going to be of use to a minority of A14 users.

It's not just the lorries that make this stretch of road as congested as it is or turn it into an accident black-spot. The A14 between Cambridge and Huntingdon is a major trunk route in it's own right linking East Anglia with the Midlands and North. It's a route I use myself on a regular basis and have done for many years. The busway is going to be of little or no use to me whatsoever.

But this is the nub of the problem. A heavy (or even light) rail link would be equally useless. How are you going to take the lorries off this stretch of road? By concentrating solely on the problems of the A14 misses the point that all of these HGV's have come from somewhere and are on their way somewhere else with the A14 being only a tiny leg in their longer journey. You can't take road freight off the A14 without a concerted initiative to get road freight off all the UK's roads. The same holds true for the majority of private car traffic on this stretch of road. You cannot treat the A14 (or, indeed, any road) entirely in isolation.

Quite honestly unless there is some major national initiative to shift people and goods off the roads and onto the rails, any alternative transport scheme to alleviate congestion along this stretch of the A14 is going to fail to meet it's objectives. What is really needed is for the authorities to start treating it like the major trunk route that it is and upgrade the road accordingly. There needs to be a third lane along the entire length and the various junctions need to be upgraded to improve safety. Ideally they would also need to bypass Fenstanton a bit better to avoid those bends.

O L Leigh

Indeed,

Well they got a plan to build a new road as well

As you say, the busway is of limited use, there should have been a comprehensive upgrade of the road network and the East-West Rail project.

 

[O L Leigh]

Is it dual carriageway all along the route now? If so, the simple introduction of a no overtaking rule at peak hours may be able to help keep traffic moving?

Yes it is, but it's of a fairly archaic design.

Lorries attempting to pass each other is an issue, but it's only one issue. Besides, adding a third lane would immediately create one lorry-free lane as HGV's are not permitted in the outside lane of a three-lane carriageway anyway.

There are many small junctions along the entire road which have inadequate slip lanes. They basically just spit out traffic right into the flow of the main carriageway without giving a proper chance of picking a gap or matching speed. Getting onto or off of the main carriageway at these junctions is hair-raising at best and bordering on suicidal the rest of the time. Someone making an ill-judged manoeuvre may not themselves get involved in a collision, but others taking avoiding action or having to brake suddenly may mean that there is a collision a little further back.

Some of these smaller junctions need to be closed while others need to be upgraded. The A14/M11/A428 junction is a case in point, especially on the Northbound side where traffic coming off the M11 for the A14 East has to cross over with traffic staying on the A14 West. Likewise, where the A14 West traffic leaves the main carriageway at Huntingdon requires improvement to reduce the amount of traffic queueing back onto the carriageway.

The big issue with this part of the A14 is that it is full. As I said before, it's a major trunk route for people and goods, but the current road is not up to the job. It badly needs widening and modernisation if it is to cope with the demands currently on it.

O L Leigh