'Parliamentary' Trains

[A Challenge]

Surely if Grand Central are running that's a train service, and if they stop running then northern would just have to pick it up.

You are required to run a service via Stockton Cut Junction if Grand Central stops running services to Sunderland

 

[bb21]

Surely if Grand Central are running that's a train service, and if they stop running then northern would just have to pick it up.

You are required to run a service via Stockton Cut Junction if Grand Central stops running services to Sunderland

Is that second sentence a direct quote from the franchise document hence in italics.

I don't profess to be an expert in relevant legislation but any source anyone can quote would be helpful in this one as it is a quite interesting little technicality.

 

[PHILIPE]

Perhaps an idea to read this thread as there is a lot of information and answers posted here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trivia-what-is-the-definition-of-a-parliamentary-train.129742

 

[A Challenge]

Is that second sentence a direct quote from the franchise document hence in italics.

I don't profess to be an expert in relevant legislation but any source anyone can quote would be helpful in this one as it is a quite interesting little technicality.

No, it was a suggestion of an alternative wording to the fact that he said they had to despite there being other services!

 

[crosscity]

So are 'parlies' about stations or sections of railway? A few years ago after Cross Country trains stopped running to Brighton they were meant to run a service covering a couple of sections of railway in West London. They never ran any trains, but got away with running a once-a-week bus from Wandsworth Road to Ealing Broadway via Kensington Olympia (I caught it once just for a laugh). I can't think of another rail replacement bus that actually replaced a non-existent train service! Eventually another train company started running an actual train, but only from Wandsworth Road to Kensington Olympia. Perhaps someone can explain what happened next - are both sections covered by new services, or has someone quietly forgotten about them?

And then there's the Lifford Curve in south Birmingham. This section of railway does not have a 'parly' train, or rail replacement bus, but on Saturday, for the first time in about 10 years, it had a public train service - ironically operated by Cross Country. I actually managed to have a ride on this from New St to Tamworth and back. Can anyone explain why there is no requirement for a 'parly' as it had a passenger service when it opened in the 1890's?

 

[Bookd]

So are 'parlies' about stations or sections of railway? A few years ago after Cross Country trains stopped running to Brighton they were meant to run a service covering a couple of sections of railway in West London. They never ran any trains, but got away with running a once-a-week bus from Wandsworth Road to Ealing Broadway via Kensington Olympia (I caught it once just for a laugh). I can't think of another rail replacement bus that actually replaced a non-existent train service! Eventually another train company started running an actual train, but only from Wandsworth Road to Kensington Olympia. Perhaps someone can explain what happened next - are both sections covered by new services, or has someone quietly forgotten about them?

And then there's the Lifford Curve in south Birmingham. This section of railway does not have a 'parly' train, or rail replacement bus, but on Saturday, for the first time in about 10 years, it had a public train service - ironically operated by Cross Country. I actually managed to have a ride on this from New St to Tamworth and back. Can anyone explain why there is no requirement for a 'parly' as it had a passenger service when it opened in the 1890's?

Regarding the West London one I think that the curve involved might now be covered by the revised London Overground service (although they may have gone through the closure procedure).
it was ludicrous anyway as it referred to a specific section of line near Clapham Junction. The through south coast services used it, but they did not stop at Wandsworth Road and the replacement services were of little use to anyone other than meeting the legal requirement.
A pal and I once took the once a day train from WR to Olympia - we were the only passengers on an 8 coach Southern train, and the driver seemed surprised to see us.

 

[DanNCL]

Are they not the only franchised services which use the direct route via Stockton Cut Junction? I have always understood them to be Parliamentaries.

(Grand Central doesn't count to this purpose as the DfT must ensure the line has passenger service to avoid closure.)

I believe they are parliamentaries, and one of the two westbound services is now the only service to call at Teesside Airport (previously one eastbound and one westbound service called).

Aren't Grand Central the only TOC to operate services over a couple of lines in Yorkshire? (particularly thinking of Doncaster - Pontefract here). I'm surprised there's no requirement for a Northern parliamentary service over that route when there is a requirement for a token Northern service between Stockton and Eaglescliffe.

Tees-side Airport is only served by 1 train per week (westbound only) but I can't imagine the train is empty (unlike, say, the Chiltern service to Paddington) as it is useful for other journeys

When I used that service about a year ago there were 5 passengers on the train including myself. Nobody got on or off at the majority of the intermediate stops, though someone did get on at Teesside Airport!

 

[Kite159]

Regarding the West London one I think that the curve involved might now be covered by the revised London Overground service (although they may have gone through the closure procedure).
it was ludicrous anyway as it referred to a specific section of line near Clapham Junction. The through south coast services used it, but they did not stop at Wandsworth Road and the replacement services were of little use to anyone other than meeting the legal requirement.
A pal and I once took the once a day train from WR to Olympia - we were the only passengers on an 8 coach Southern train, and the driver seemed surprised to see us.

Wasn't the section which was 'closed' the connection between Longhedge Junction & Latchmere No. 1 Junction, the uncovered gap between the London Overground services?

 

[swt_passenger]

So are 'parlies' about stations or sections of railway? A few years ago after Cross Country trains stopped running to Brighton they were meant to run a service covering a couple of sections of railway in West London. They never ran any trains, but got away with running a once-a-week bus from Wandsworth Road to Ealing Broadway via Kensington Olympia (I caught it once just for a laugh). I can't think of another rail replacement bus that actually replaced a non-existent train service! Eventually another train company started running an actual train, but only from Wandsworth Road to Kensington Olympia. Perhaps someone can explain what happened next - are both sections covered by new services, or has someone quietly forgotten about them?

In this example it was definitely about separated short sections of line, no stations were affected at all.

They went through a short phase of Southern running a train service on the south of Olympia section, but then undertook closure procedures for the passenger service. I think the Olympia to Ealing bus was stopped first, because there were other suitable options using the tube.

But it was never a requirement to provide a usable through service over the whole original route operated by XC.

It is a fairly rare example of a recent passenger service formal closure.

DFT Closure consultation, responses to ORR and subsequent ratification are here:
http://orr.gov.uk/rail/access-to-the-network/station-and-depot-access/station-and-depot-closures

 

[tsr]

The replacement bus from Wandsworth Road was in lieu of a train service which Southern were actively planning to operate to West Ealing with diesel stock. The route learning had already commenced when it was decided to be uneconomical to operate, particularly in light of what was (at the time) serious overcrowding on both routes operated by the 171 fleet, so the allocations of units were changed appropriately. I know several people who were disappointed they would never have the little bit of extra variety from working the Parliamentary services.

The route learning documentation was quite interesting and very restrictive because of the requirements to operate the service to a very specific GWML turnback location. Potential wrong routes were quite a list!

 

[Poolie]

What's this ?
STP 0112 0046 York Thrall Europa 2 618S ZZ York Thrall Europa 0117 0049
Something using Norton East - West and back again. There are definatley no schedued services over this bit, so is there such a thing as a non passenger Parliamentary?