Gay Rail Enthusiasts?

[arthur maunsell]

[
Oh god. I lol'd. Hard.
Thy eyes hath been blinded!
---

you obviously interpret what I write in some way other than it was meant....normal is in inverts because were it not, it would be implying that only straight people are normal. It is a fact, shown by the number of people on this thread who state they are gay but have yet to come out, that it IS difficult for Gay people to form relationships and what I was saying was that sometimes those people and others with other problems turn to a substitute.

No need to have a chip on your shoulder and look for bias where it isnt.

 

[Metroland]

Ive always thought trainspotting etc (and some other activities) are a kind of sex-substitute and naturally attract those who might find it difficult to form a "normal " relationship. Thus it is no surprise that the hobby has a high number of Gays just as it has a high number of socially or mentally challenged people. I dont have a problem with that, whatever consenting adults want to do without impinging on others lives is OK with me.

Great thread though, and fair-play to those of you who have crossed the threshold to the point where you feel secure in what you are.

Not Gay myself as far as I know...having 5 kids sometime makes me wish I had been

Are you willing to provide data on 'the high number of gays that have trouble forming relationships' and mentally challenged people being interested in this subject, or do you just like being offensive?

 

[JustinStacey.x]

Thanks Metro, you managed to say what I was thinking without laying into the guy.

I'm still laughing from his initial comment. I suppose his next comment he will come out with 'all supermarket employees have downs' syndrome' or some other stereotypical crap.

 

[Phoenix]

I lol'd.

And on the other side of the spectrum im slightly dieing inside
But to be fair I would have lol'd also.

 

[Bayum]

Are you willing to provide data on 'the high number of gays that have trouble forming relationships' and mentally challenged people being interested in this subject, or do you just like being offensive?

Tbf... There is evidence that suggests that a large number of people that are interested in train spotting, are mentally challenged in some way...

Similar to the idea that many aspergers children are "fixated" or obsessed with certain things - trains, music, space, anything!

 

[JustinStacey.x]

And maybe this 'mentally challenged' idea is that of people which are actually more talented than folk who just sit and watch football all day? The kind of people who if you f*ck around with too much might come back to haunt you.

Whatever, I still think its a bit of a blanket statement to make.

 

[Metroland]

Tbf... There is evidence that suggests that a large number of people that are interested in train spotting, are mentally challenged in some way...

Similar to the idea that many aspergers children are "fixated" or obsessed with certain things - trains, music, space, anything!

That's not the case at all, nor do most enthusiasts spot. In 30 years I have met one person with Asbergers.

Please do not make offensive, baseless claims.

 

[Bayum]

It's not baseless. Like I said, there is lots of evidence (and working with aspergers children at my old school) I know how much they can be obsessed with things.

BUT

I didn't mean it in the sense that, therefore a lot of people MUST have Aspergers or similiar conditions on the autistic spectrum. I just meant that theoritically, it could be possible.

AND

Many of them may not have had it diagnosed anyways. Aspergers can affect people in different ways, and so many people - particularly adults, may not have recieved a diagnosis as a child, just because their symptoms weren't as evident as other peoples.

I feel you should go look it up though really. Then you'll see it's not "baseless"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
From: http://www.kidsgrowth.com/resources/articledetail.cfm?id=2165

The also tend to have unusual interests and behaviors. Typically they may have strong interests about specific topics that border on being obsessive. One picture of Asperser type behavior is the peculiarly British hobby of train spotting. This involves standing for hours on end in train stations, taking notes of the serial numbers of passing trains, with the goal of "spotting" every train in existence. There are even books published listing rows and rows of train numbers!

Page 75: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...esult&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=&f=false

From: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-has-become-a-dirty-word-but-why-1505845.html

"The trainspotter, it was recently revealed, may be psychiatrically challenged. Dr Uta Frith of the Medical Research Council's Cognitive Development Unit, has said that trainspotters and other obsessive collectors of trivia, may be suffering from Asperger's Syndrome, a mild form of autism."

So, it's not baseless at all. There is evidence to support it.

 

[Metroland]

People with Asbergers love routine and like collecting things (such as train numbers) with little understanding of the subject matter - that may of may not include some train spotters.

What i mean by baseless is claims ought to be supported with evidence. 10% of the popular is gay, so there is no surprise that there are a number of gay enthusiasts. If anything, this proves how universal the subject matter is. I've no figures on people with Asbergers, but I suspect the number of enthusiasts with it is no different from any other sector of the population, with maybe a slightly higher percentage for those that like to spot or bash.

Obsession is a dangerous word, because it depends what you mean about it. Most people who are good at what they are do are obsessed with their subject matter, especially sportsmen who need intense amounts of repetitive behaviour or academics who need to go very deeply into subjects. You need 10,000 hours of study to be 'expert' according to studies. That's pretty damned 'obsessive'.

However like any field, most enthusiasts are interested in other things, and its no more of an interest that saying watching regular soap operas, football, cars, planes, military, and so on.

I just find it offensive the whole notion that we're all on here because by being interested in this particular subject we are deranged. We are no more deranged than being interested in any other form of transport, or engineering matter, the built environment and so on. In fact most of us ARE interested in other transport/enginering matters and so on.

There is no question 'Trainspotters' give rail enthusiasm and railways a bad name, which is most unfortunate and lots of enthusiasts I talk to privately resent this.

As I said, very few enthusiasts spot (it must be less than 10%) and out of those maybe only a small percentage have Asbergers. Quite honestly I wish I could be interested in one thing and be more focussed and have a routine!

Not that I'm knocking people with Asbergers, the person I know with it is a very clever chap and is perfectly fine to know.

 

[Bayum]

It's like I said. I'm not saying ALL trainspotters have aspergers, I was just proving the point that many sufferers of Aserpergers, or people on the autistic spectrum may indulge in obsessing with topic matters.

And I know obsession is a dangerous word - but sometimes it really is an obsession for these people. Imagine having to do a maths lesson for a single child, who on the day doesn't want to do ANYTHING but talk about trains. And then you have Science, RE, Drama and History to contend with as well, but have to try and stick to the curriculum

 

[MCR247]

It's like I said. I'm not saying ALL trainspotters have aspergers, I was just proving the point that many sufferers of Aserpergers, or people on the autistic spectrum may indulge in obsessing with topic matters.

And I know obsession is a dangerous word - but sometimes it really is an obsession for these people. Imagine having to do a maths lesson for a single child, who on the day doesn't want to do ANYTHING but talk about trains. And then you have Science, RE, Drama and History to contend with as well, but have to try and stick to the curriculum

I dont get what your saying? Are you saying people on here are obsessed with trains?

 

[Bayum]

People with Asbergers love routine and like collecting things (such as train numbers) with little understanding of the subject matter - that may of may not include some train spotters.

That's unfair to say... Many people with aspergers are really clever, and destined for great things intellectually. Look at Einstein who sufferd a form of dyslexia, which is also on the autistic spectrum. Point is, I think that is a harsh comment to make. I'm sure many people would understand a subject, if they have an obsession with it. And their natural curiosity will always lead them to read into a subject or ask around it
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I dont get what your saying? Are you saying people on here are obsessed with trains?

No, i'm trying to prove someone else's point that many people with aspergers can become obsessed with some topic matters, and for a child that I used to work with - that was their problem. And one day in school, they were fixated on trains, and everything we tried to teach them that day, had to have reference to trains - otherwise they didn't wanna know.

 

[Metroland]

Only quoting from wiki

'Pursuit of specific and narrow areas of interest is one of the most striking features of AS.[1] Individuals with AS may collect volumes of detailed information on a relatively narrow topic such as dinosaurs or members of congress, without necessarily having genuine understanding of the broader topic.[1][8] For example, a child might memorize camera model numbers while caring little about photography.

Essentially the disorder is about repetitive movements, processing and so on.

From my own observations many people interested in spotting, who make up a small number of enthusiasts (the same as most petrol heads don't collect number plates) tend to get all the train numbers and move onto planes (in particular) or buses or other things.

I've said many times on this forum, I don't like being called a spotter, because I have no desire to collect numbers, photos, go on every single route for the hell of it and most people I have known over the years and now are exactly the same. As I said, I'm waiting for the data sets to prove that the number of enthusiasts in general have mental disorders, other wise I just find the comment damned offensive.

 

[Bayum]

Only quoting from wiki

'Pursuit of specific and narrow areas of interest is one of the most striking features of AS.[1] Individuals with AS may collect volumes of detailed information on a relatively narrow topic such as dinosaurs or members of congress, without necessarily having genuine understanding of the broader topic.[1][8] For example, a child might memorize camera model numbers while caring little about photography

From my own observations many people interested in spotting, who make up a small number of enthusiasts (the same as most petrol heads don't collect number plates) tend to get all the train numbers and move onto planes (in particular) or buses or other things.

Yeah, but that could only be due to an obsession with numbers in it's own right... Which would also help support the argument that many children with Aspergers are really mathematical. Also, can we emphasise the fact that the article says "may collect" "without necessarily" which in itself implies that there is a percentage of people that do know something about, and are interested in said topic.

 

[MCR247]

Bayum, not all enthusiasts will collect numbers etc..
I for one, dont see what the point in going on routes, becasue you havnet done them this year, or trying to get a certain unit or loco etc

 

[Bayum]

No, that's my point MCR247... I'm arguing the point that many aspergers people who do collect numbers, may do so because they are good at maths, and the numbers involved in maths can also be found on trains etc.

I didn't say that ALL of them may collect numbers though =/

 

[Metroland]

Well maybe so, but I think from what I have read the disorder is about doing things for the sake of it, rather than a lucid understanding. And a focus on one particular aspect (say numbers or timetables) rather than a broader interest of railways, transport, travel or engineering, built environment, social history or architecture, for example.

 

[Bayum]

But from experience, I can tell you that's not true. Your just getting all this from quotes, and books etc. When you work with people, you find out the opposite is true. Statements like that are only true for a minority of the Aspergers Sufferers. Many of them are actually really interested in the areas that they are interested in. I don't see why though, just because they don't have a broader interest in something else, they should be seen as doing it for the sake of it...

I'm interested in trains - I have no reason for it. I just do. I'm not interested in other things to do with the railway, infrastructure, history etc. Does that make me an aspergers sufferer? No. Besides. It's often easier for a lot of people, to have an interest in a small area, then expand when you feel ready

 

[Metroland]

But the point was, and the stereotypical view if you are interested in trains than you are quite probably abnormal in some way. On the face of it, that is illogical, the same would apply to any interest. It may well be the spotting aspect of the interest does have a higher than average number of people with mental disorders, but I do not have an data to say whether that's true and nor do you. Therefore the claim is baseless without supporting evidence and designed to offend.

 

[Bayum]

No. But my point was, that the original claim did have proof behind it...
And if you look at a much larger picture, and say interviewed a lot of trainspotters, I think you would find the number of asperger sufferers would be quite high compared to the other numbers. But as I said earlier, many of the people that say spot now, and were born in the 70's and 80's, may not have a diagnosis as back then, less was known about ADHD, Aspergers etc, whereas now, parents are thinking... Oh, there's a problem here, lets see what that is

 

[Metroland]

I understand your point, but unfortunately it's not proof at all, without statistical evidence and facts.

It may seem like an academic point, but many people perceive all sorts of things and the evidence turns out to be quite different.

A good example is child murders. A lot of people think this sort of crime is on the rise, thanks to tabloid sensationalist reporting. All the evidence is, it's fairly static since 1900.

A lot of people think rail travel is unreliable, when all the evidence its one of the most, if not the most reliable form for transport, for example.

In order to prove your point, you need to find data on

1) the number of enthusiasts and their interests
2) the percentage of enthusiasts with mental disorders
3) the percentage of enthusiasts that collect numbers and of those which have mental disorders.
4) The percentage of gay enthusiasts

Then you would need to correlate that with other interests and the wider population.

Repeating stereotypes based on 'well that looks quite dull' (and for the record I find train-spotting very dull) and therefore the people that do it are abnormal is illogical and offensive. I find an interest in football extremely dull and tribal and in many cases obsessive, but I wouldn't dream of going round and saying the people involved are abnormal.

Sorry to labour the point, but I feel very strongly about this. A large number of people are put off because of steorotypes, and in some cases this leads to bullying at school or work. I really rather enthusiasts didn't re-enforce them, its bad enough tabloid newspapers doing it.

 

[JustinStacey.x]

Hey Ryan.

Just to let you (and others) know, I was diagnosed with Aspergers when I was 5, and those things that I am interested in, I do show a strong interest. That could just be my personality though.

 

[Bayum]

Hey Ryan.

Just to let you (and others) know, I was diagnosed with Aspergers when I was 5, and those things that I am interested in, I do show a strong interest. That could just be my personality though.

Heyyyyy =D

Well, that's one person then that we've found that's got aspergers, and likes trainspotting.

 

[yorksrob]

In response to JustinStacey's first section about how straight people have it easy I present the following.........

You don't have to deal with women who I can say with ease are the easiest way to completely kill a mans pride and dignity.

We don't indeed, but we do have gay internet dating which in my experience usually has the same effect lol

 

[MCR247]

Heyyyyy =D

Well, that's one person then that we've found that's got aspergers, and likes trainspotting.

So?

 

[JustinStacey.x]

We don't indeed, but we do have gay internet dating which in my experience usually has the same effect lol

LOL, words of truth
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So?

Yes, we know, its not conclusive, bla bla bla. We can go around in circles with this all day or we can all just shut up and accept that some people will always stereotype. It took me until around a year ago to grow out of mass stereotyping and sometimes i even still catch myself doing it.

Moving on...

 

[O L Leigh]

I've just been catching up with this thread. Can I have those 20 minutes back, please...?

O L Leigh

 

[37372]

Indeed, lets try and stop waffling and go back to the original topic. I like this thread, it gives me a nice warm feeling inside knowing that I'm not alone, particularly since me and my train-obsessed boyfriend are no longer together.

 

[monkey]

^^aww. *hugs* to you 37372

 

[MrCub]

As the person responsible for this thread, I am amazed and fascinated at the way it has changed and turned.