Not possible to excess pre-bought ticket to first?

[AllWork]

I regularly travel with work and, in good value for money style, standard class tickets are purchased for me through the corporate account (trainline) with paper tickets provided.

I'd like to 'treat myself' by upgrading to first every now and then, by excessing the ticket but every time I've spoken to the ticket office they've told me that because the ticket was online it needs to be returned for a refund and a new ticket bought (ie that an excess isn't possible).

(I'm not brave enough to risk having to pay a full first fare by asking on the train!)

Is this correct? I'd assumed a paper ticket (with the £ face value on it) is a paper ticket but apparently not.

 

[Qwerty133]

Presuming it is a standard single or return this is nonsense (there may be restrictions if the ticket has some kind of corporate discount which the station operator does not deal with).

 

[najaB]

(there may be restrictions if the ticket has some kind of corporate discount which the station operator does not deal with).

I have known that to be the case.

 

[AllWork]

Thanks. The ticket is certainly not discounted - just a standard anytime day return.

If they're incorrect, is there any way I can demonstrate this? Are there any restrictions on what this could be excessed to (eg to a VT only first ticket)?

 

[robbeech]

You can excess an any time return in standard to the same in first. You can also excess it to an off peak return in first I believe if your travel times accommodate this, it may be that there is a much smaller price to pay for this.
The same rules with TOC restrictions apply. If you had a VT only ticket you’d still have a VT only ticket in first, you cannot excess a TOC restriction to use another operator.
If this is a standard ticket then what you have been told at the ticket office is wrong. Would you be prepared to tell us which ticket office this is?

 

[yorksrob]

I've excessed a standard AP brought through work to first class. It would seem stupid to prevent passengers from paying more to upgrade.

 

[Hadders]

There are procedures in the industry's internal knowledgebase detailing how to do the excess. There is no requirement to return the ticket to the online retailer.

 

[yorkie]

Is this correct?

No. Try at a better ticket office if that is practicable.

York would just get on with it, but I am lucky to have a good ticket office local to me.

Some ticket office staff do not like issuing excesses and/or do not know how, and I've heard all sorts of excuses trotted out for why something apparently can't be done. The problem is endemic among certain train companies.

 

[Wallsendmag]

No. Try at a better ticket office if that is practicable.

York would just get on with it, but I am lucky to have a good ticket office local to me.

Some ticket office staff do not like issuing excesses and/or do not know how, and I've heard all sorts of excuses trotted out for why something apparently can't be done. The problem is endemic among certain train companies.

We try to give them the best info

 

[yorkie]

We try to give them the best info

I have to say VTEC are one of the best, if not the best, operators of ticket offices, so you do a good job there I have to say!

 

[gray1404]

You should be able to do it at the ticket office. However I would approach the guard upon boarding and ask to pay the excess before taking a seat in first class. What ticket is it exactly and which ticket office are you dealing with?

 

[Hadders]

I have to say VTEC are one of the best, if not the best, operators of ticket offices, so you do a good job there I have to say!

Agreed. The VTEC Travel Centre at Stevenage is excellent.

 

[AllWork]

If this is a standard ticket then what you have been told at the ticket office is wrong. Would you be prepared to tell us which ticket office this is?

What ticket is it exactly and which ticket office are you dealing with?

This was at Chester (so ATW). The ticket was a standard day return, initially trying to excess to a First virgin only return and the to a non specific first return.

 

[yorkie]

Ah, Chester. I am not surprised they refused!

 

[sheff1]

I have to say VTEC are one of the best, if not the best, operators of ticket offices, so you do a good job there I have to say!

Certainly the ticket office at Doncaster has handled all sorts of out of the ordinary requests professionally and efficiently. The contrast with the refusniks at Sheffield could not be greater.

 

[gray1404]

Which ticket did you have exactly for it to be VT only? I would in this case seek out the guard on boarding and just explain that you would like to pay the excess, if its mentioned I would just say that the ticket office at Chester didn't know how to issue the excess.

 

[AllWork]

Which ticket did you have exactly for it to be VT only? I would in this case seek out the guard on boarding and just explain that you would like to pay the excess, if its mentioned I would just say that the ticket office at Chester didn't know how to issue the excess.

I was trying to excess an Anytime Day Return (Any Permitted) to an Anytime Day First Return (Virgin WC Only).

A couple of people have been unsurpassed that this is Chester? What's wrong with that office? It's a busy station and the office is always well staffed?

Thanks

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I was trying to excess an Anytime Day Return (Any Permitted) to an Anytime Day First Return (Virgin WC Only).

A couple of people have been unsurpassed that this is Chester? What's wrong with that office? It's a busy station and the office is always well staffed?

Thanks

There are a number of ticket offices which are well-known for not abiding by the correct rules and procedures, either because they refuse to read up on them, or because they don't care about them. Sheffield is perhaps the best known example but Chester is also not great.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I was trying to excess an Anytime Day Return (Any Permitted) to an Anytime Day First Return (Virgin WC Only).
Thanks

That's an awkward one to be honest as some would say it needs to be the same route. Definitely a no if the ticket routes were the other way around.

 

[Warwick]

This is probably too simple for the present fare structure and staff to handle given some of the stories that I've heard but................
Why can't a passenger holding a standard class ticket sit in the first class seating area of a train and simply pay the difference when the ticket man comes through?

 

[yorkie]

This is probably too simple for the present fare structure and staff to handle given some of the stories that I've heard but................
Why can't a passenger holding a standard class ticket sit in the first class seating area of a train and simply pay the difference when the ticket man comes through?

They can, on some TOCs

 

[najaB]

Why can't a passenger holding a standard class ticket sit in the first class seating area of a train and simply pay the difference when the ticket man comes through?

It has the potential for abuse on TOCs that provide complementary food/beverage service. Sit in First until you get the free stuff, then 'realise' that you never actually wanted to upgrade to First (or it was more expensive than you thought, etc.) Weekend first works because (a) there's generally a less-generous food/beverage service; and (b) it's a fixed price upgrade.

 

[theironroad]

This is probably too simple for the present fare structure and staff to handle given some of the stories that I've heard but................
Why can't a passenger holding a standard class ticket sit in the first class seating area of a train and simply pay the difference when the ticket man comes through?

.....and many guards, conductors and on board staff checking tickets are women as well......

 

[theironroad]

It has the potential for abuse on TOCs that provide complementary food/beverage service. Sit in First until you get the free stuff, then 'realise' that you never actually wanted to upgrade to First (or it was more expensive than you thought, etc.) Weekend first works because (a) there's generally a less-generous food/beverage service; and (b) it's a fixed price upgrade.

Don't the hosts who provide hospitality in first normally check the passenger's ticket first?

My limited experience of first on EMT is that on leaving STP or SHF they will check tickets before do the complimentary trolley.

 

[najaB]

Don't the hosts who provide hospitality in first normally check the passenger's ticket first?

I've done First on VTEC a few times and can't remember a host ever asking to see my ticket.

 

[Sleepy]

It has the potential for abuse on TOCs that provide complementary food/beverage service. Sit in First until you get the free stuff, then 'realise' that you never actually wanted to upgrade to First (or it was more expensive than you thought, etc.) Weekend first works because (a) there's generally a less-generous food/beverage service; and (b) it's a fixed price upgrade.

Did a trip from Cornwall to Paddington in first class recently and nobody checked ticket apart from branch line guard at start of the journey (ticket selling did occur in standard for those boarding at some shacks e.g. Devonport - don't know if an ATE is booked to assist on such HST's ?)

 

[Hadders]

Not all services have staff on board. Pay on train wouldn’t be appropriate on most GTR services.

 

[gray1404]

AllWork - thank you for providing details of the ticket type held. HOWEVER, we also need to know between what stations your ticket is valid. I am not able to find a walk up VTWC Only fare between Chester and London so could you please confirm.

 

[AllWork]

AllWork - thank you for providing details of the ticket type held. HOWEVER, we also need to know between what stations your ticket is valid. I am not able to find a walk up VTWC Only fare between Chester and London so could you please confirm.

Thanks. It was a Chester to Manchester stations anytime return trying to excess to a VTWC only first. Both are valid via Crewe.

 

[gray1404]

I am of the view that should be possible then, given you can excess into a TOC restriction (just not out of it). I would ask the guard upon boarding next time.