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ATW to fit toilet retention tanks on 158s & 150s

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Gareth Marston

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gareth950

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6Gman

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Gareth Marston said:
No prizes for guessing what's been specified for the Cambrian. A fairly large bit of jigsaw has come lose....

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2018/0...ility-programme-from-arriva-trains-wales.html



There ain't no etcs in the 150's.......
Click to expand...

It's a confusing account, but one reading would be that the 158s will be retention-fitted, but that will need new emptying facilities at Machynlleth. The 150s will continue to be used elsewhere, but presumably won't need new emptying facilities since they already exist at Canton (for 175s), Crewe (for 350s?) and - maybe - Swansea? And it doesn't mean 150s for the Cambrian. I hope! :D
 
Gareth Marston

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Bletchleyite said:
That doesn't rule out new stock - that would need emptying equipment too.
Click to expand...

However if your proclaim that the Cambrian will be the first place with retention toilets, announce your fitting them to Class 158's- currently the only DMU that can run on the Cambrian then your pretty much fixing that investment into the the future of the franchise. The only scenario I can see them running something else is if theirs some totally hair brained scheme to run direct services to Cardiff from Aberystwyth.

One of the bid teams let slip that the franchise would retain 150's and 158's to me a while back now! Its been an open secret for some time that this will happen, the Pacers will definitely go and the bidders had leeway on whether to keep/replace the 153's/175's/LHCS.

This announcement also confirms that the more than half the population of South Wales the rail element of the "South Wales Metro" will in fact be PRM compliant 1980's 150's in TfW branding.
 
Gareth Marston

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Hark what is this ATW are not on script with Carwyn about locked toilets.
From http://shrewsburyaberystwythrailway.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/MINUTES-SARLC-MAY2018.pdf
A report was given by Ben Davies with the main points as follows:

issue in the timescale set by Government of 2020. In some cases the toilets will simply be locked and not available if they cannot comply.
Further facilities are being provided at Machynlleth Depot.
Click to expand...

Ben is the stakeholder manager for ATW and was seconded to Arriva bid team, the Line liaison commitee meeting was in Welshpool last Friday.
 
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gareth950

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Gareth Marston said:
Hark what is this ATW are not on script with Carwyn about locked toilets.
From http://shrewsburyaberystwythrailway.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/MINUTES-SARLC-MAY2018.pdf


Ben is the stakeholder manager for ATW and was seconded to Arriva bid team, the Line liaison commitee meeting was in Welshpool last Friday.
Click to expand...
I doubt very much that Ken and Carwyn fully understand the enourmity and reality of the challenge facing Wales to get a fully compliant fleet of trains ready for 1/1/2020 due to their inaction, yet alone allow any capacity increases.
 
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gareth950 said:
I doubt very much that Ken and Carwyn fully understand the enourmity and reality of the challenge facing Wales to get a fully compliant fleet of trains ready for 1/1/2020 due to their inaction, yet alone allow any capacity increases.
Click to expand...

They are running around like headless chickens
 
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Parallel

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Gareth Marston said:
An ATW manager has already acknowledged any units not done by the deadline will have toilets locked out see Wales and Borders consultation thread.
Click to expand...
Pwllheli - Birmingham on a 158 with the toilets locked out would be fun. So would The HoW! :D
 
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Bletchleyite said:
Absolute madness.

It's time toilet urgency was considered a disability, and they were penalised for this kind of action.
Click to expand...

It is. From the official government guidance, an example of someone who is classed as disabled

A young woman is a sales representative. She has developed colitis, an inflammatory bowel disease. The condition is a chronic one which is subject to periods of remission and flare-ups. During a flare-up she experiences severe abdominal pain and bouts of diarrhoea. This makes it very difficult for her to drive, including for the purposes of her job, as she must ensure she is always close to a lavatory. This has a substantial adverse effect on her ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.
Click to expand...

https://assets.publishing.service.g...2/Equality_Act_2010-disability_definition.pdf
 
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Parallel

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WG are probably better off renting a large disabled portaloo and placing them at strategic places on their network. Locking toilets out does discriminate against those who have little warning before they have to go.

I imagine when they start locking out toilets, it won’t be long before the new operator and the WG are disgraced by passengers going to the papers after soiling themselves... ESPECIALLY despite there being an OOU toilet on board their train.

The new operator will probably initially end up being even less popular than ATW. They’re better off just extending the ATW franchise for three years.
 
Gareth Marston

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ATW's franchise expires in October 18 without any guaremtee of continuing why should they have committed the £?

Porterbrook would need guaranteed usage to do so and again there fleets lease with ATW is only guaranteed to Oct 18.

Wind back to 2014 and the Welsh Government were making big noises about specifying the replacement franchise and the then Minister Edwina Heart was publicly suggesting it would be not for profit.

So Porterbrook said to Welsh Government back in 2014 your the people who will be in charge these are the circumstances what you doing about it?

And nothing happened year after year.........however it will all be ok because the First Minister has told the Senedd that the new franchise owner will be responsible as its written in the contract.....

This was last week before Welsh Government announced it was funding the retention tanks.......
 
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So what caused SWT to fit retention toilets to their 159/1s and 158s about 10 years ago, if it wasn’t actually a requirement? Did they just see it as sensible improvement to do anyway, in order to match the standard of the 159/0s? Or was the relevant ROSCO getting ahead?
 
BestWestern

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So HSTs, it is fully expected, will be granted an exemption after 2020 for elements of PRM requirements they cannot meet including toilets, yet the Welsh DMU fleet will simply be 'compliant' by having them locked out? Hardly seems fair!
 
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Gareth Marston said:
However if your proclaim that the Cambrian will be the first place with retention toilets, announce your fitting them to Class 158's- currently the only DMU that can run on the Cambrian then your pretty much fixing that investment into the the future of the franchise. The only scenario I can see them running something else is if theirs some totally hair brained scheme to run direct services to Cardiff from Aberystwyth.

One of the bid teams let slip that the franchise would retain 150's and 158's to me a while back now! Its been an open secret for some time that this will happen, the Pacers will definitely go and the bidders had leeway on whether to keep/replace the 153's/175's/LHCS.

This announcement also confirms that the more than half the population of South Wales the rail element of the "South Wales Metro" will in fact be PRM compliant 1980's 150's in TfW branding.
Click to expand...
What it says is that all the money in the new franchise goes into the Valley Line Vanity Project and the rest of Wales (and Borders) can feed off the scraps.
 
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WatcherZero

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Trams/tram trains aren't all toiletless on the continent, in the UK the average maximum journey time on light rail is under hour so isn't needed whereas on the continent there are light rail routes that could see journeys considerably longer than that and do have toilets fitted in response.
 
Gareth Marston

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swt_passenger said:
So what caused SWT to fit retention toilets to their 159/1s and 158s about 10 years ago, if it wasn’t actually a requirement? Did they just see it as sensible improvement to do anyway, in order to match the standard of the 159/0s? Or was the relevant ROSCO getting ahead?
Click to expand...

Complete elimination of waste on tracks out of Waterloo. Emptying tank facilities already at Salisbury, relatively cheap to do.
 
Gareth Marston

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Hi All- I'm informed that the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth to Line Liaison Committee published an unsigned off version of the minutes on their website http://shrewsburyaberystwythrailway.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/MINUTES-SARLC-MAY2018.pdf

the part relating to this thread has been amended.

158 and 150 trains are being alterd to toilet retaining tanks new facilities are being installed at Machyntheth with assistance from Welsh goverment for cleaning of the toilets. cambrian will be the first line that will not have its toilets discharging on the track. 14x fleet are also being modified and i can confirm toilets will not be locked out of use as per media speculation.
Click to expand...
 
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gareth950

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Gareth Marston said:
Hi All- I'm informed that the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth to Line Liaison Committee published an unsigned off version of the minutes on their website http://shrewsburyaberystwythrailway.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/MINUTES-SARLC-MAY2018.pdf

the part relating to this thread has been amended.
Click to expand...
So Pacers are to be modified? There's no way they can get the entire ATW current fleet fully modified in 18 months without mass shortages. Unless there's a mass cascade of Northern Pacers down to S Wales before they are scrapped.
It does not make sense however that all Skates and Jones have been going on about is how "it's not acceptable to have 40 year old trains running in Wales" (which is the LHCS sets) yet 150s, already 30 years + are being modified, so will be around at least another 10 years, and some Pacers are already 35 years old, god knows how long they think they can keep those going :'(
 
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Gareth Marston

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As you say it does through up other questions and not a dicky bird on 153's either.

It would appear that the Greater Anglia Rural Fleet should be available for cascade bar one or two units by 31.12.19 but there is not enough of these to cover 30 Pacer and 8 153's.......
 
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