Transpennine Express decide not to use MK3's on limited services

[37201xoIM]

I guess we shall see what happens in the next couple of weeks then.

Oh yes...
[Call me a coward, but I'm rather glad I'll be out of the country on 21 May......]

 

[BMIFlyer]

Oh yes...
[Call me a coward, but I'm rather glad I'll be out of the country on 21 May......]

I wish I was. No holiday plans until school is out for the summer for me. The joys of family life.

 

[43096]

I have to disagree with you, I'm afraid: what you say would be reasonable if today's date were not 10 May 2018. This franchise has been running for over 2 years. There has been more than ample time to get eight (strictly ten but I won't labour that point) coaches ready for the Dec 17 TT change, let alone May 18.

It is not the franchisee's place to make unilateral decisions as to whether it wants to abide by its contractual obligations - in the face of critical levels of crowding.

Absolutely spot on. They've had the stock (and been paying lease charges for it) for around 18 months now and done nothing.

Another FirstGroup franchise that can't get its staff trained - there's a surprise.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I guess we shall see what happens in the next couple of weeks then.

Overcrowding on a grand scale I assume, as planned 6 car services are decimated to provide 185s to cover for the Mk3s.

 

[Spartacus]

I have to say that while I've had some sympathy for TPE getting them into service, if they're now not brought in until after Lime Street it's really taking the biscuit, at this rate the Mk5s will be here first.....

 

[47802]

I have to say that while I've had some sympathy for TPE getting them into service, if they're now not brought in until after Lime Street it's really taking the biscuit, at this rate the Mk5s will be here first.....

Frankly If I was TPE I would avoid using them as much as possible, operationally they likely to be a right pain, using slam door stock on a busy route that hasn't had them for many years both Customers and Staff will be unfamiliar with them, then of course there will be the usual Enthusiast invasion, If I were TPE I would try an avoid using them at all and go straight to the MK5 sets.

 

[37201xoIM]

Frankly If I was TPE I would avoid using them as much as possible, operationally they likely to be a right pain, using slam door stock on a busy route that hasn't had them for many years both Customers and Staff will be unfamiliar with them, then of course there will be the usual Enthusiast invasion, If I were TPE I would try an avoid using them at all and go straight to the MK5 sets.

A reasonable point of view, and something the franchise bidders had ample time to consider three years ago - and no doubt did consider. You can't just change your mind without a derogation from the franchisor. And that's a derogation that I would say should not be granted given the extremity of crowding and the lack of alternatives.

Let's remember too that the Mark 5s were supposed to have been entering service from Dec 17 too.......

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A reasonable point of view, and something the franchise bidders had ample time to consider three years ago - and no doubt did consider. You can't just change your mind without a derogation from the franchisor. And that's a derogation that I would say should not be granted given the extremity of crowding and the lack of alternatives.

Let's remember too that the Mark 5s were supposed to have been entering service from Dec 17 too.......

Funny how quickly Scotrail have managed to get the 365s (also a short-term stop-gap, and with far less preparation time) up and under test... rather puts TPE to shame!

 

[BeHereNow]

It might be time to rename the thread!

 

[Starmill]

So, to confirm, the planned May timetable change is going ahead, despite the loss of both Loco Hauled sets, and the loss of 2 185s per day to Northern? This sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

 

[47802]

Funny how quickly Scotrail have managed to get the 365s (also a short-term stop-gap, and with far less preparation time) up and under test... rather puts TPE to shame!

Scotrail are facing a real shortage of units with 170's and 158's going to Northern, some uncertainty as to how long the 385 problem will take to fix and delayed HST introduction, while TPE have the agro of introducing a couple of T&T slam door sets, if they can manage without I would.

 

[37201xoIM]

Scotrail are facing a real shortage of units with 170's and 158's going to Northern, some uncertainty as to how long the 385 problem will take to fix and delayed HST introduction, while TPE have the agro of introducing a couple of T&T slam door sets, if they can manage without I would.

They can't!

 

[td97]

So, to confirm, the planned May timetable change is going ahead, despite the loss of both Loco Hauled sets, and the loss of 2 185s per day to Northern? This sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

They loan out 4 185s per day currently, making a net gain of 2 units from Northern

 

[Starmill]

They can't!

It's unclear if they can or they can't. But either the company or the DfT clearly thought that they couldn't because the provision to use the stock two years ago was there.

 

[Starmill]

They loan out 4 185s per day currently, making a net gain of 2 units from Northern

Exactly. But the question is where were those planned? Were the Loco Hauled trains planned to replace the two lost to Northern, or were both considered neccesary for this timetable when it was first devised? I don't know. Can they get an extra unit back from the refurbishment work?

 

[nat67]

Frankly If I was TPE I would avoid using them as much as possible, operationally they likely to be a right pain, using slam door stock on a busy route that hasn't had them for many years both Customers and Staff will be unfamiliar with them, then of course there will be the usual Enthusiast invasion, If I were TPE I would try an avoid using them at all and go straight to the MK5 sets.

But that's why they are doing training for the MK3's so they can get used to them.

 

[berneyarms]

They can't!

You seem very certain of this.

Surely if TPE services from the North East and Scarborough are turning back at Manchester Victoria there will be a saving in rolling stock requirements over and above the two loco hauled sets?

That may leave scope to strengthen Class 185 operates services.

 

[47802]

,

But that's why they are doing training for the MK3's so they can get used to them.

I'm sure they are but the customers wont be used to them and if they think they can manage without until at least the Lime St work is sorted why wouldn't they.

Added to which we are heading towards the holiday season, Summer University and College Break, and less commuter demand

 

[37201xoIM]

They loan out 4 185s per day currently, making a net gain of 2 units from Northern

Against which they now have to resource not only the expanded "mainline" services but also almost all local stations between LDS and SYB.

You seem very certain of this.

Surely if TPE services from the North East and Scarborough are turning back at Manchester Victoria there will be a saving in rolling stock requirements over and above the two loco hauled sets?

That may leave scope to strengthen Class 185 operates services.

I am. Bluntly, it's my job to be. I wasn't referring only to the marginal short-term relief of the LIV block, however.

 

[Bovverboy]

Surely if TPE services from the North East and Scarborough are turning back at Manchester Victoria there will be a saving in rolling stock requirements over and above the two loco hauled sets?

No, the saving will be two sets. There would be a saving of three sets if the Vic - Scarborough and Vic - Newcastle were going to be interworked, but they're not - not least, I imagine, because it would result in an unacceptably tight turnaround at Vic.

I think the main issue at the moment is what is going to happen in the periods 21-25 May and 28 May to 1 June, when the Scarboroughs and Newcastles are going to be running through to Liverpool Lime Street, but it seems that the LHCS sets won't be available.

 

[IanXC]

I think the main issue at the moment is what is going to happen in the periods 21-25 May and 28 May to 1 June, when the Scarboroughs and Newcastles are going to be running through to Liverpool Lime Street, but it seems that the LHCS sets won't be available.

I'd suggest these periods are short enough that not having a unit in for referb and careful planning of major exams will mean some slack can be found in the fleet.

 

[Bovverboy]

I'd suggest these periods are short enough that not having a unit in for referb and careful planning of major exams will mean some slack can be found in the fleet.

You're joking! That would never happen.

 

[Bovverboy]

Starmill said: ↑
So, to confirm, the planned May timetable change is going ahead, despite the loss of both Loco Hauled sets, and the loss of 2 185s per day to Northern? This sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

They loan out 4 185s per day currently, making a net gain of 2 units from Northern

I can only account for three 185s currently on hire to Northern.

 

[copernicium112]

So is it confirmed that the loco hauled sets will not run next week? And if it is, what are they going to do about the diagrams, are there enough 185s?

 

[dilbertphil]

As far as I know they will only be running between Liverpool and Crewe for practical handling runs for drivers.

 

[Kieran1990]

So is it confirmed that the loco hauled sets will not run next week? And if it is, what are they going to do about the diagrams, are there enough 185s?

I was thinking that as well, with TPE taking over the MAN-LDS stopper the Class 185’s are going to be stretched if they are also covering the 2 loco diagrams as well? Only 2 class 185 gains from the sub-letting to Northern.
I feel some of they evening peak double Class 185 on the North TPE will be cut back to just 3 car.
Anyone have any clue how TPE are going diagnose it all?

 

[Bovverboy]

So is it confirmed that the loco hauled sets will not run next week?

The ECS workings to and from Crewe have now disappeared from RTT in respect of 21-25/28 May. They are still shown in respect of 29 May-1 June. Make of that what you will.

And if it is, what are they going to do about the diagrams, are there enough 185s?

How many extra 185s are required from Monday? I know there is going to be a saving of one unit on Scarboroughs, and one fewer needing to be hired to Northern, but how many will be needed for the new Leeds service? Any other extra?

EDIT: It's three units required for Picc - Leeds.

 

[Bovverboy]

Does anyone know why, from 21/5/18, up to four TPE sets per day are going to be running out of the Bombardier depot at Crofton? And why has there apparently been, since last December, an FSSuX ECS working, Hull-Crofton-Wakefield Kirkgate-Crofton-Hull?

 

[BeHereNow]

Is a 3 carriage train enough for the local and Hull trains?

 

[BeHereNow]

I wonder if the ETH modifications are done yet? Shouldn't need it in this weather!