Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[The_Engineer]

even just being able to switch to electric coming off the line from newmarket into Cambridge would be good

It's my opinion that a bi-mode coming into any electrified terminal station should switch to electric-mode before entering and after leaving the station, within the limits of the electrification. If for no other purpose than to reduce the unnecessary pollution from diesel trains ticking over at such stations for prolonged periods of time. Yes, I know these trains will be lower emission than the old ones, but they still have emissions.

It is a sobering thoughts that the air pollution levels within such stations can often be higher than the surrounding main roads or city centres........

 

[D365]

If the business case can be put together to make the OLE suitable for “pan-upping” at speed, then sure.

 

[306024]

Pan up on the move is nothing new on the GE. Back in 1986ish I recall a class 37 hauling 309s off the Harwich branch then the 309 would pan up between Manningtree and Ardleigh at about 30-40 mph. Depends on how brave the NR OHL engineers are feeling.

 

[F Great Eastern]

It sounds like their master-plan is slowly unravelling..... Time will tell, I think we will all be interested to see how this goes!

Some of us have been saying this is going to happen from the outset - from the moment I saw it, it looked far too ambitious.

I'd rather than have promised a bit less and done it all well, rather than trying to do so much and need to cut corners or have to do things in a less an ideal way just to tick boxes.

 

[36270k]

It's my opinion that a bi-mode coming into any electrified terminal station should switch to electric-mode before entering and after leaving the station, within the limits of the electrification. If for no other purpose than to reduce the unnecessary pollution from diesel trains ticking over at such stations for prolonged periods of time. Yes, I know these trains will be lower emission than the old ones, but they still have emissions.

It is a sobering thoughts that the air pollution levels within such stations can often be higher than the surrounding main roads or city centres........

At Ipswich at the moment the OLE in Platform 1 ends about 50 feet from the buffer stops, completing this bit would allow Felixstowe and Lowestoft trains to switch to electric during layovers.

 

[dk1]

At Ipswich at the moment the OLE in Platform 1 ends about 50 feet from the buffer stops, completing this bit would allow Felixstowe and Lowestoft trains to switch to electric during layovers.

Similar with platform 6 at Norwich. The Jubilee & Low Level Sidings (apart from the Royal Dock & Road beside it) are also not wired.

 

[dk1]

The down Lowestoft line is wired until the first river bridge to enable IC sets to enter Crown Point 'main line'.

 

[Class 170101]

Pan up on the move is nothing new on the GE. Back in 1986ish I recall a class 37 hauling 309s off the Harwich branch then the 309 would pan up between Manningtree and Ardleigh at about 30-40 mph. Depends on how brave the NR OHL engineers are feeling.

Not very brave in my experience. It wasn't permitted when GE did coasting on the section between Liverpool Street and Shenfield a couple of years ago.

 

[LAX54]

This is something that's been identified as a problem. The geniuses behind the bid specced the trains on the basis that they'd be 60% under the wires and 40% diesel but we all know it's the other way round if not a greater %age on diesel. Taking over the Balfour site at Colchester will help add fuelling capacity. They're also going to be adding extra fuelling points inside the shed at NCP.

And to take into account there is no access to the OTM depot at Colchester for some 6 or 7 hours (or more) during the day.

 

[Rick1984]

Just seen this tweet and video regarding the GA FLIRT power packs: Look like V8's to me !!

Power pack looks bigger in flesh than I imagined.

 

[gallafent]

Just seen this tweet and video regarding the GA FLIRT power packs: Look like V8's to me !!

Pity about the misinformation about Diesel Exhaust Fluid (which he refers to with the trade name AdBlue) though. DEF doesn't reduce particulate emissions, it reduces NOx emissions. High NOx emissions result from lean-burn engines, which are adopted since they have lower particulate outputs. Nice to know that people making authoritative statements are sure to check their facts before speaking, isn't it.

 

[eastdyke]

Pity about the misinformation about Diesel Exhaust Fluid (which he refers to with the trade name AdBlue) though. DEF doesn't reduce particulate emissions, it reduces NOx emissions. High NOx emissions result from lean-burn engines, which are adopted since they have lower particulate outputs. Nice to know that people making authoritative statements are sure to check their facts before speaking, isn't it.

Let us hope that the DEF tank is big enough such that it too doesn't need a re-fill every day ..

 

[gallafent]

Let us hope that the DEF tank is big enough such that it too doesn't need a re-fill every day ..

Heh, yes. Or perhaps there's some clever way to combine it with the controlled emissions toilets to get greater range ……… it's just urea, after all, right? ………

 

[eastdyke]

Heh, yes. Or perhaps there's some clever way to combine it with the controlled emissions toilets to get greater range ……… it's just urea, after all, right? ………

I'll not be having anyone de-mineralising my 'water'

 

[edwin_m]

If the business case can be put together to make the OLE suitable for “pan-upping” at speed, then sure.

Or as a cheapskate option they could just run into the next station, terminus or otherwise, and put the pan up there. Most of the junctions of non-electrified branches on Anglia are fairly close to stations where branch trains stop, and they wouldn't be using much diesel when rolling into a station. Trains going onto a branch could accelerate on electric, avoiding emissions in the vicinity of the junction station, then switch to diesel at the junction.,

This does of course assume they have confidence in the diesel starting on demand.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This does of course assume they have confidence in the diesel starting on demand.

If they don't they should cancel the order. Would you buy a lorry or bus that didn't start on demand? They're not *that* much different from that with the kind of engines used, they aren't exactly a large marine engine.

They may well have an OHLE based pre-heat like I think the 800s have, but that's more for improved fuel consumption and reduced wear.

 

[47802]

A video on the new Flirts from the Railway Gazette.

The GA guy seems very enthusiastic about the quality of the new flirts, the Bi-modes will be like entering the Starship Enterprise compared to a 153 or a 156.

There's also a comment on WNXX from Mr Miles about his interview with the Stadler Guy, they do seem an impressive company.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It will be very interesting to see what the step change in quality with brand new stock for local lines, not seen in the UK since the coming of the Class 150 over 30 years ago, will do to passenger numbers. If it is highly successful perhaps we could see more of this kind of thing rather than borderline-suitable hand me downs? The 15x are getting old now...

Mind you, brand new local stock is what Stadler have built their business model on - the IC stuff has come much later and has only really come about now the categories of "suburban/rural EMU" and "classic line InterCity EMU" are very much coming together (not only with Stadler but also things like the Bombardier 125mph bi-mode and the Siemens Desiro Verve). It's the age of the regional express - frequent, high capacity, accessible and modern - rather than the age of incremental speed improvements.

 

[brtom]

RE changing on the move, latest RAIL magazine (853) has a quote from Steve Mitchell, who is managing the acceptance of the FLIRTs:

We'd like to transition on the move, but at the moment this is not possible. We are looking at 19 different transition locations.

 

[hexagon789]

RE changing on the move, latest RAIL magazine (853) has a quote from Steve Mitchell, who is managing the acceptance of the FLIRTs:

I'm sure it was said they would be able to change power mode on the move when it was confirmed that GA were getting the Flirts.

 

[Domh245]

Just because it is possible doesn't mean that it'll be allowed. It also doesn't preclude them from switching to Diesel from Electric whilst on the move I'd have thought, just the other way around.

 

[47802]

I'm sure it was said they would be able to change power mode on the move when it was confirmed that GA were getting the Flirts.

I would imagine that the issue will not be the Flirts but Notwork Rails Overhead Cables, given only certain locations are allowed on the 800's.

 

[306024]

The train is most likely to be able to change power mode on the move. Whether NR will permit is another question.

 

[hexagon789]

Just because it is possible doesn't mean that it'll be allowed. It also doesn't preclude them from switching to Diesel from Electric whilst on the move I'd have thought, just the other way around.

I see, bit stupid really if they will only be able to go from one to the other but not vice versa.

I would imagine that the issue will not be the Flirts but Notwork Rails Overhead Cables, given only certain locations are allowed on the 800's.

Wasn't aware the 800s could only charge at certain locations, I thought they were designed to changeover anywhere, infrastructure issues again?

The train is most likely to be able to change power mode on the move. Whether NR will permit is another question.

Hopefully they do.

 

[Domh245]

I see, bit stupid really if they will only be able to go from one to the other but not vice versa.

Wasn't aware the 800s could only charge at certain locations, I thought they were designed to changeover anywhere, infrastructure issues again?

As @47802 alludes to, the issue is the overheads - they need to be reinforced in areas where you are likely to have a train panning up whilst moving as there is additional force that comes from stopping the pantograph rising further than you get during normal operation.

 

[hexagon789]

As @47802 alludes to, the issue is the overheads - they need to be reinforced in areas where you are likely to have a train panning up whilst moving as there is additional force that comes from stopping the pantograph rising further than you get during normal operation.

Is this because our OLE is often built on the cheap, because it doesn't seem to affect other countries with bi-modes.

 

[D365]

Not being designed for every possible future rolling stock scenario in advance =/= being “built on the cheap”.

 

[Domh245]

Picture released of the 2nd 755, now with yellow panel added.

 

[samuelmorris]

It does really rather ruin it, but never mind :P

 

[eastdyke]

'Next year it will be running on lines like Ipswich to Lowestoft and Marks Tey to Sudbury'
Just for which bi-modes seem rather wasteful
We already know (i think) that the latter services will not be visiting Colchester Town, perhaps the former might not now be going to Liverpool Street 4 times per day?
Still I suppose being able to use the OHLE might help get back to a depot for the daily re-fuel in some situations