Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[eastdyke]

Possibly the 100 sections past Chelmsford might be able to go to 110? (That was what i meant.)
I suppose it really depends on how much the existing infrastructure would be affected and whether it's at all worth doing.

Level Crossings are an issue at above 100, along with power supply, maintenance and staff safety. @Bald Rick quoted £200 million for such GEML upgrade works about 6 years ago. Probably rather more now.
All donations gratefully received.

Further I am not sure how 'signed up' NR are to the 3tph Norwich as that too implies an increased risk at crossings without consideration of any mitigation. That too may cost.

Edited:it was about 6 years ago not 4.

 

[dk1]

Possibly the 100 sections past Chelmsford might be able to go to 110? (That was what i meant.)

I suppose it really depends on how much the existing infrastructure would be affected and whether it's at all worth doing.

Only Church Street Kelvedon that needs upgrading from AHB to CCTV but wouldn't like to comment on track or signal spacing.

 

[hexagon789]

Level Crossings are an issue at above 100, along with power supply, maintenance and staff safety. @Bald Rick quoted £200 million for such GEML upgrade works about 6 years ago. Probably rather more now.
All donations gratefully received.

Further I am not sure how 'signed up' NR are to the 3tph Norwich as that too implies an increased risk at crossings without consideration of any mitigation. That too may cost.

Edited:it was about 6 years ago not 4.

Only Church Street Kelvedon that needs upgrading from AHB to CCTV but wouldn't like to comment on track or signal spacing.

Arguably it is possible though, subject to level crossing alterations and potential signal respacing.

My original point was that I could see an increase to 110 being quite feasible but not one to 125.

 

[Bald Rick]

Arguably it is possible though, subject to level crossing alterations and potential signal respacing.

My original point was that I could see an increase to 110 being quite feasible but not one to 125.

And the OLE, and staff safety provision (the rules change at 101mph). And the small matter of everything underneath the track - bridges, culverts, embankments. Plus every non-controlled Level crossing, ie those without lights (eg most footpath and farm crossings), where the rules also change at 101mph. And there’s a lot of those on the GEML. Then there’s the power supply.

Just assessing all this costs a few million. And all for 3 seconds a mile where the train could get to 110 rather than 100, which on the stopping pattern isn’t many.

 

[hexagon789]

And the OLE, and staff safety provision (the rules change at 101mph). And the small matter of everything underneath the track - bridges, culverts, embankments. Plus every non-controlled Level crossing, ie those without lights (eg most footpath and farm crossings), where the rules also change at 101mph. And there’s a lot of those on the GEML. Then there’s the power supply.

Just assessing all this costs a few million. And all for 3 seconds a mile where the train could get to 110 rather than 100, which on the stopping pattern isn’t many.

I can see it would be very complicated and costly, however I would like to re-iterate that I didn't say the GEML should be upgraded to 110 mph rather that I could only see it being upgraded to 110 as opposed to 125 mph.

 

[Class 170101]

Need to look at the slower speeds not the higher ones to increase.

Whether anything can be done for the 60mph through Chelmsford?

 

[47802]

From WNXX the following You Tube link has been posted.

Video stood in the power module of a not dissimilar GTW, not exactly quiet, of course you could argue you wouldn't normally need to stand in there, but then even with more capacity this is the UK overcrowded railway we are talking about!

You can imagine all Stadler bashers wanting to stand there

 

[samuelmorris]

Not quiet, but no noisier than being on one of the current DMUs, and probably not much worse than being in the vestibule of a more recent DMU (which this is arguably the equivalent area of). You could stand there if you had to, it's not exactly deafening.

As far as I know the 755s will have different engines to that GTW, but the one in the video sounds remarkably like the inside of a 158 at times :P

 

[Domh245]

It's worth noting that the description of that video says it is an MTU V12 engine - the Anglia Flirts will have (based on the info we've seen) Deutz TCD 2015 V8s which if their V6 cousins are anything to go by are quite throaty (and have quite the turbo whistle), although I suspect that Stadler's insulation will be similar in both cases

 

[samuelmorris]

There's a V8 unit at the very end of the video, so I imagine they'll sound very similar to that.

 

[MisterT]

It's worth noting that the description of that video says it is an MTU V12 engine - the Anglia Flirts will have (based on the info we've seen) Deutz TCD 2015 V8s which if their V6 cousins are anything to go by are quite throaty (and have quite the turbo whistle), although I suspect that Stadler's insulation will be similar in both cases

This video is from one of the older GTWs. The newer ones have those Deutz V8 engines and they have quite a different sound.

Edit: oh wait, I didn't watch the end of the video. That's a Deutz engine

 

[LAX54]

One issue will be, the fueling of every unit, every night due to the limited range on diesel.

 

[Wivenswold]

Crikey that Deutz-engined one took off didn't it? Even in diesel mode it looks much quicker from a stand than the 170s.

 

[Railperf]

Yes like the proverbial s**t off a shovel

 

[Railperf]

Just seen this tweet and video regarding the GA FLIRT power packs: Look like V8's to me !!

 

[Fuzzytop]

Please forgive my ignorance, but is it planned for the 755s to have internal doors at either end of the power car as in the GTW video above? None of the mockups I've seen so far suggest that they will - presumably they'd reduce the engine noise in the passenger saloons.

 

[samuelmorris]

That's a fair point - with the reduced width of the corridor beside the power units that would seem an obvious choice to implement them.

 

[47802]

Well they look better than the European ones which frankly look a bit Toytown/Tram, one wonders about the reduced Diesel range on mainly Diesel routes, and whether they might have been better keeping the 170's, and just buying enough to replace the older sprinters and add capacity and concentrate them more on routes where they will make some use of the Electric, but obviously a single fleet will have some advantages.

 

[MisterT]

Well they look better than the European ones which frankly look a bit Toytown/Tram, one wonders about the reduced Diesel range on mainly Diesel routes, and whether they might have been better keeping the 170's, and just buying enough to replace the older sprinters and add capacity and concentrate them more on routes where they will make some use of the Electric, but obviously a single fleet will have some advantages.

Please note that there is quite a distinctive difference between the GTW that is shown in the video, which is meant for light local transport (and a maximum speed of around 75-90 mph), and the FLIRT, which is meant for real main line use at 100-120 mph.
The FLIRT is highly customisable, ranging from a local train to a semi-high speed inter-city service.

 

[dp21]

One issue will be, the fueling of every unit, every night due to the limited range on diesel.

This is something that's been identified as a problem. The geniuses behind the bid specced the trains on the basis that they'd be 60% under the wires and 40% diesel but we all know it's the other way round if not a greater %age on diesel. Taking over the Balfour site at Colchester will help add fuelling capacity. They're also going to be adding extra fuelling points inside the shed at NCP.

Crikey that Deutz-engined one took off didn't it? Even in diesel mode it looks much quicker from a stand than the 170s.

I thought the same thing, very impressive indeed but I guess that's what you get when it's essentially an electric train with a power plant in the middle.

 

[D365]

Presumably the fuel flow rates could be reduced in software to increase diesel range?

 

[dk1]

This is something that's been identified as a problem. The geniuses behind the bid specced the trains on the basis that they'd be 60% under the wires and 40% diesel but we all know it's the other way round if not a greater %age on diesel. Taking over the Balfour site at Colchester will help add fuelling capacity. They're also going to be adding extra fuelling points inside the shed at NCP.

Well the whole fleet replacement planning is keeping us all highly amused if nothing else.

 

[eastdyke]

This is something that's been identified as a problem. The geniuses behind the bid specced the trains on the basis that they'd be 60% under the wires and 40% diesel but we all know it's the other way round if not a greater %age on diesel. Taking over the Balfour site at Colchester will help add fuelling capacity. They're also going to be adding extra fuelling points inside the shed at NCP.

So fill every tank, every day?
Presumably use of the Ipswich Freightliner fuel point will be made? Esp. for the Felixstowes.
The Colchester-Peterboroughs will be about 30% under the wires. Can they change 'on-the-run' (ie Haughley) or will they changeover at Stowmarket?
Cheers!

 

[dk1]

There are rumblings that some of the original timetable plans may not now be achievable. Further issues with level crossings & of course the well documented depot problems are all conspiring against it. Exactly how this will transpire & how they get around the franchise commitments will be interesting to see.

 

[The_Engineer]

There are rumblings that some of the original timetable plans may not now be achievable. Further issues with level crossings & of course the well documented depot problems are all conspiring against it. Exactly how this will transpire & how they get around the franchise commitments will be interesting to see.

It sounds like their master-plan is slowly unravelling..... Time will tell, I think we will all be interested to see how this goes!

 

[dp21]

Well the whole fleet replacement planning is keeping us all highly amused if nothing else.

Tell me about it!

So fill every tank, every day?
Presumably use of the Ipswich Freightliner fuel point will be made? Esp. for the Felixstowes.
The Colchester-Peterboroughs will be about 30% under the wires. Can they change 'on-the-run' (ie Haughley) or will they changeover at Stowmarket?
Cheers!

I'm not sure about the changeover but I think it would depend on the integrity of the overhead line at the locations. Can't see there being an issue dropping the pan and firing up diesel on the move though but someone might be able to correct me.

 

[dk1]

On the subject of pan up/down on the move, that's something we have been told will be possible but nothing definate. It would seem sensible to be able to get away from Norwich towards the Coast or Ely heading north allowing the train to accelerate to say 50mph under electric power thus saving the diesel but who knows?

 

[Domh245]

I'm sure it is something that GA will want, but it'll require NR to enhance the OLE in the areas where they'll want to Pan up on the move.

 

[dp21]

On the subject of pan up/down on the move, that's something we have been told will be possible but nothing definate. It would seem sensible to be able to get away from Norwich towards the Coast or Ely heading north allowing the train to accelerate to say 50mph under electric power thus saving the diesel but who knows?

I'd have to agree with your suggestion; it makes sense to take advantage of as many opportunities to be under the wires as possible

 

[jopsuk]

On the subject of pan up/down on the move, that's something we have been told will be possible but nothing definate. It would seem sensible to be able to get away from Norwich towards the Coast or Ely heading north allowing the train to accelerate to say 50mph under electric power thus saving the diesel but who knows?

even just being able to switch to electric coming off the line from newmarket into Cambridge would be good