Ideas for alternative rolling stock for Hull Trains

[Mag_seven]

Mod Note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/fire-on-board-hull-trains-1a93.164256/

Yes and I believe (someone correct me if I’m wrong) that this means they are down to 2 trains.

To make up the shortfall I suggest they bring this back (photo not mine)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/7560228882

 

[43096]

To make up the shortfall I suggest they bring this back (photo not mine)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/7560228882

Bit difficult now GBRf have extended their contract for 86101/401 and 87002!

 

[hexagon789]

To make up the shortfall I suggest they bring this back (photo not mine)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/7560228882

Can only run as far as the OLE will allow though!

 

[BestWestern]

Can only run as far as the OLE will allow though!

Deltic for haulage beyond that

 

[hexagon789]

Deltic for haulage beyond that

That would be good!

Can't wait

 

[noddingdonkey]

Do Grand Central crews still sign HSTs or has that traction knowledge expired now? I guess there might just be a possibility of negotiating some kind of shuffle involving HT borrowing a GC 180 and GC using the HST that some have suggested may be available for hire.

 

[hexagon789]

Do Grand Central crews still sign HSTs or has that traction knowledge expired now? I guess there might just be a possibility of negotiating some kind of shuffle involving HT borrowing a GC 180 and GC using the HST that some have suggested may be available for hire.

I believe the potential HSTs are off-lease GWR ones which are different to the ex-GC ones in a few respects I believe.

 

[robbeech]

Do Grand Central crews still sign HSTs or has that traction knowledge expired now? I guess there might just be a possibility of negotiating some kind of shuffle involving HT borrowing a GC 180 and GC using the HST that some have suggested may be available for hire.

Are they likely to want to go to this effort to cooperate? It would have to be very financially rewarding for GC to look at this EVEN IF it were possible.
I’d assume it would be far more expensive for HT than it is to send people via Sheffield or Cairo or wherever it is this week and apologise for any inconvenience caused.

 

[43096]

I believe the potential HSTs are off-lease GWR ones which are different to the ex-GC ones in a few respects I believe.

What off-lease GWR HSTs? There may be trailers available, but there are no power cars available. All the power cars coming off GWR currently are immediately going on lease to ScotRail. It will be late summer before anything else starts to go off-lease.

 

[hexagon789]

What off-lease GWR HSTs? There may be trailers available, but there are no power cars available. All the power cars coming off GWR currently are immediately going on lease to ScotRail. It will be late summer before anything else starts to go off-lease.

Someone mentioned off-lease HST sets and the only operator which I could think of who might have off-lease sets was GWR.

 

[Domh245]

Someone mentioned off-lease HST sets and the only operator which I could think of who might have off-lease sets was GWR.

Just because I mention things, doesn't always mean that it is possible! HSTs would be the best case scenario for providing resilience in the hull trains fleet - they are already cleared to Hull from Kings Cross, and (as evidenced by pictures in this thread) Hull trains still have a reasonably close relationship with GWR with regards to traction so traction training and maintenance can be facilitated through that. But as @43096 points out, there aren't any powercars available at the moment, unless of course HT can beg operators for any unutilised stock - after all EMT were able to lend VTEC an HST rake between the peaks over the winter period, or even ScotRail who i reckon have more powercars than they need at the moment.

 

[hexagon789]

Just because I mention things, doesn't always mean that it is possible! HSTs would be the best case scenario for providing resilience in the hull trains fleet - they are already cleared to Hull from Kings Cross, and (as evidenced by pictures in this thread) Hull trains still have a reasonably close relationship with GWR with regards to traction so traction training and maintenance can be facilitated through that. But as @43096 points out, there aren't any powercars available at the moment, unless of course HT can beg operators for any unutilised stock - after all EMT were able to lend VTEC an HST rake between the peaks over the winter period, or even ScotRail who i reckon have more powercars than they need at the moment.

Actually it wasn't yourself I had thought suggested it, but never mind. They are the most logical option anyway.

 

[Crossover]

Just because I mention things, doesn't always mean that it is possible! HSTs would be the best case scenario for providing resilience in the hull trains fleet - they are already cleared to Hull from Kings Cross, and (as evidenced by pictures in this thread) Hull trains still have a reasonably close relationship with GWR with regards to traction so traction training and maintenance can be facilitated through that. But as @43096 points out, there aren't any powercars available at the moment, unless of course HT can beg operators for any unutilised stock - after all EMT were able to lend VTEC an HST rake between the peaks over the winter period, or even ScotRail who i reckon have more powercars than they need at the moment.

Even if this could happen (which we know is pie in the sky) I’m not sure HT would have a safety case for slammers and particularly slammers at short platforms

 

[2HAP]

Is hiring the Hastings Unit an option?

 

[43096]

unless of course HT can beg operators for any unutilised stock - after all EMT were able to lend VTEC an HST rake between the peaks over the winter period, or even ScotRail who i reckon have more powercars than they need at the moment.

I can't see EMT hiring a set to Hull Trains. Why would Stagecoach (EMT) hire to a FirstGroup company (Hull) who are direct competitors of Stagecoach (VTEC)?

 

[DanTrain]

I can't see EMT hiring a set to Hull Trains. Why would Stagecoach (EMT) hire to a FirstGroup company (Hull) who are direct competitors of Stagecoach (VTEC)?

Especially since EMT are already propping up VTEC. It’s not like Derby is just a graveyard of nicely painted HSTs, they are intented to work the MML at some point

 

[Domh245]

I can't see EMT hiring a set to Hull Trains. Why would Stagecoach (EMT) hire to a FirstGroup company (Hull) who are direct competitors of Stagecoach (VTEC)?

Good point, although of course everything has a price! That said, when I started typing out that response, I had been thinking more along the lines of HT begging and borrowing power cars out of spare pools, although in hindsight I suppose there isn't much in the way of slack for that to be achieved.

 

[rustbucket]

And they would need conductors for it as no drivers trained on HSTs!

 

[Domh245]

Or they could just train enough drivers for it. As I noted, they still appear to have a working relationship with GWR, so training drivers on HSTs shouldn't be beyond their wit. Of course, this is all dependent on them deciding that the 180s aren't reliable enough, and that leasing and operating HSTs until the 802s arrive won't cost them more than just accepting that their trains will either be causing delay minutes on the ECML or out of use.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One of the problems with operating HSTs will be that, like on GWR, people will not necessarily like what replaces them.

 

[adrock1976]

Would there be a possibility of borrowing the former Virgin West Coast "Pretendolino" set, with it hauled by a Class 47 or 67?

As a side question, is the aforementioned set still with Greater Anglia or has it gone elsewhere?

 

[All Line Rover]

Bits of it are scattered about just south of Crewe.

 

[43096]

Would there be a possibility of borrowing the former Virgin West Coast "Pretendolino" set, with it hauled by a Class 47 or 67?

As a side question, is the aforementioned set still with Greater Anglia or has it gone elsewhere?

It’s with TPE.

This thread is like a miniature version of this entire forum - lots of daft “my idea for” posts that have a tenuous grip on reality.

 

[whhistle]

This thread is like a miniature version of this entire forum - lots of daft “my idea for” posts that have a tenuous grip on reality.

This. I get tired of it and can't see any humour in people suggesting deltics.
Makes me hit the IGNORE button...

 

[DaiGog]

It’s with TPE.

This thread is like a miniature version of this entire forum - lots of daft “my idea for” posts that have a tenuous grip on reality.

The only chance of anything different being hired in would be if, say, two units were expected to be out of use for an extended period. The time it takes to find something suitable and get in into service is usually prohibitive unless the period of hire is more than a few weeks - and that's without considering if you need to train your own staff to work them. And without even thinking about the cost.

That said, if someone can make that Hastings unit do 125mph, fit it with central door locking, obtain the necessary derogations to use a mk1 slam-door unit on ECML express services, put some go-faster stripes on the side, maybe lower the suspension a bit and even fit fluorescent blue lights beneath the solebar, then persuade FirstGroup to put it on their safety case, then it might be worth a go.......

 

[43096]

That said, if someone can make that Hastings unit do 125mph, fit it with central door locking, obtain the necessary derogations to use a mk1 slam-door unit on ECML express services, put some go-faster stripes on the side, maybe lower the suspension a bit and even fit fluorescent blue lights beneath the solebar, then persuade FirstGroup to put it on their safety case, then it might be worth a go.......

Well it has CDL.......
http://www.hastingsdiesels.co.uk/1001/

 

[Polarbear]

The only chance of anything different being hired in would be if, say, two units were expected to be out of use for an extended period. The time it takes to find something suitable and get in into service is usually prohibitive unless the period of hire is more than a few weeks - and that's without considering if you need to train your own staff to work them. And without even thinking about the cost.

That said, if someone can make that Hastings unit do 125mph, fit it with central door locking, obtain the necessary derogations to use a mk1 slam-door unit on ECML express services, put some go-faster stripes on the side, maybe lower the suspension a bit and even fit fluorescent blue lights beneath the solebar, then persuade FirstGroup to put it on their safety case, then it might be worth a go.......

Where's that "like" button when you need it!

As suggested, the only remote possibility of hiring something in would be the above scenario (maybe minus the Hastings Unit), AND there being suitable stock available. There is very little available (if anything) readily available that can do 125 mph and therefore, keep to the booked timings of the HT diagrams. The only way a Hastings unit would do 125 mph would be if it was shoved off a high cliff.

The problem is the 180's & whilst I like them to travel on, they're a dogs dinner under the sole bar (with apologies to dogs dinners)!

 

[DaiGog]

Well it has CDL.......
http://www.hastingsdiesels.co.uk/1001/

Let's just hope that the fluorescent blue lights don't overload the electrical system and cause a small fire then.....

 

[adrock1976]

It’s with TPE.

This thread is like a miniature version of this entire forum - lots of daft “my idea for” posts that have a tenuous grip on reality.

This was not "my idea for..." but was a seemingly reasonable suggestion.

No need to get snarky with me at all.

The reason I asked was because I have not seen the aforementioned "Pretendolino" set for a long time on the London Liverpool Street - Norwich route.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It’s with TPE.

This thread is like a miniature version of this entire forum - lots of daft “my idea for” posts that have a tenuous grip on reality.

There's no need to be quite that sniffy, Hull Trains hired in an 86 and the Cargo-D rake when they dropped that 222 off a maintenance jig. It's not that unreasonable a question.