Air conditioning not working on various units

[hassaanhc]

I don't see the point of installing air con on trains over here. It often fails and I find it far better being on a 150 or 166 with a good number of air hoppers (a breeze also makes a huge difference). Not to forget, the weather is also only this hot for maybe 14 days in a year in this country.

Open windows are not any help when when the train is stationary or moving slowly, as well as when heavily loaded with passengers blocking the air flow (an excellent comparison is somewhere like Waterloo to Twickenham where Classes 455/456 run alongside Classes 450/458/707). Open windows also means much more noise from the outside, especially if sat near the engine on a DMU (I recommend the Class 165 for the experience) or over the motor bogies in an old EMU (Classes 317-322). Even London Underground have had air conditioned trains for almost a decade (the first S Stock entered service in 2010).

 

[mark-h]

The problem is when you allow staff to fiddle with the air con temperature

There is also the issue that a lot of people do not understand how thermostats work. They think that turning the control fully up or down will make the temperature change quicker resulting in the temperature reaching an extreme high or low; after further complaints they set it fully the other way causing the opposite problem.

One company I worked for had no local controls of the HVAC system of the public areas; to adjust temperatures and operating times required a phone/email to Yorkshire to have things adjusted.

 

[D2007wsm]

I am on a GWR 158 atm and the air con seems to be working, though it looks and smells like it has just come back from return. There is still fluff on the carpets!

Every GWR 166 I have been on lately, the air con also seems to be working fine. Even if the air con can be a little bit dodgy, it's far nicer sat on one of these in the declassified First Class section with the hopper windows open, than this time last year on a sardine tin packed 150/1.

 

[broadgage]

Regarding the "ideal" temperature for air conditioning, I was told the following for public spaces such as trains, shops, pubs and restaurants.
Aim for about 23 degrees, but slightly modified according to the outside air temperature. For every degree by which the outside air is below 22, reduce the inside air by one tenth of a degree. So at 2 degrees outside air, make the inside 21 degrees. At minus 8 outside, make the inside 20 degrees.
Likewise for every degree by which the outside air exceeds 22 degrees, raise the internal temperature by one tenth of a degree. So at 32 degrees outside, cool to 24 degrees.

This makes a modest allowance for the fact that people will to an extent be dressed for the prevailing weather, and there are limits as to what adjustments to ones attire are reasonable for a short journey. The above guideline is suggested for public places that are visited fairly short term.

For a place of work that is normally occupied all day, aim for 23 degrees for sedentary work such as in an office, or 21 degrees for light physical work. If people regularly find their work place too warm or too cold, they can within reason adjust what they wear to work.

 

[BestWestern]

Regarding the "ideal" temperature for air conditioning, I was told the following for public spaces such as trains, shops, pubs and restaurants...

Interesting. Sadly, the reality of course is that it always too hot for somebody, and it is always too cold for somebody else sitting behind them. There is no ideal in a train carriage with more than one person sat in it!

 

[broadgage]

As has been said, you can never please everyone, but an indoor temperature that alters slightly according to the outside temperature is more likely to please more of the people more of the time.

In the case of trains, I have a more radical idea that should improve satisfaction at zero cost. Direct the chilled air from the air conditioning towards one side only of the coach. The cool air will of course spread out and the entire vehicle be cooled, but one side will be noticeably cooler than the other.
Provide heating one side only, the OTHER side to that which receives the chilled air. The warmth will also spread out, but one side will be warmer than the other.
Customers could then sit to left or right of the gangway according to preference.
To indicate which is the cool side and which is the warmer side of the coach, make the grab handles different colours, red or orange on the warm side and blue or green on the cool side.
On new stock the cost would be zero.

 

[robbeech]

As has been said, you can never please everyone, but an indoor temperature that alters slightly according to the outside temperature is more likely to please more of the people more of the time.

In the case of trains, I have a more radical idea that should improve satisfaction at zero cost. Direct the chilled air from the air conditioning towards one side only of the coach. The cool air will of course spread out and the entire vehicle be cooled, but one side will be noticeably cooler than the other.
Provide heating one side only, the OTHER side to that which receives the chilled air. The warmth will also spread out, but one side will be warmer than the other.
Customers could then sit to left or right of the gangway according to preference.
To indicate which is the cool side and which is the warmer side of the coach, make the grab handles different colours, red or orange on the warm side and blue or green on the cool side.
On new stock the cost would be zero.

One hopes this is said in jest.

I can imagine the scenes now on a hot day as everyone sits on the cool side and everyone that gets on afterwards is claiming from a seat guarantee scheme.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It already sort of is the case anyway given the old fashioned "hot from the bottom, cold from the top" approach that is used (why not true climate control with air at the specified temperature being blown in at several points?). For a warmer seat, choose a window as that's where the radiator conduit is.

 

[43096]

As has been said, you can never please everyone, but an indoor temperature that alters slightly according to the outside temperature is more likely to please more of the people more of the time.

In the case of trains, I have a more radical idea that should improve satisfaction at zero cost. Direct the chilled air from the air conditioning towards one side only of the coach. The cool air will of course spread out and the entire vehicle be cooled, but one side will be noticeably cooler than the other.
Provide heating one side only, the OTHER side to that which receives the chilled air. The warmth will also spread out, but one side will be warmer than the other.
Customers could then sit to left or right of the gangway according to preference.
To indicate which is the cool side and which is the warmer side of the coach, make the grab handles different colours, red or orange on the warm side and blue or green on the cool side.
On new stock the cost would be zero.

Other than the cost of simultaneously heating and cooling and setting up the system to do it and.....

Truly bonkers idea, in the finest traditions of this forum.

 

[broadgage]

Other than the cost of simultaneously heating and cooling and setting up the system to do it and.....

Truly bonkers idea, in the finest traditions of this forum.

By no means bonkers, carefully considered. No way am I proposing heating and cooling at the same time, that WOULD be bonkers, and a vast waste of energy.
What I AM proposing is that air conditioning should be installed that directs the cool air to one side the coach.
No question of both being used at the same time ! In hot weather the cooling will be in use and set to maintain an average of about 23 degrees, but a bit below 23 on the cool side and a bit above 23 the warmer side.
In cold weather, the cooling would be turned off and the heating turned on and thermostatically controlled so as to maintain 22 degrees as an average, a bit above 22 on the warm side and a bit below 22 on the cooler side.

Regular customers would soon learn what side they prefer.
If observation shows that one side of the coach is regularly much more popular than the other side, then that suggests that the average temperature is too low or too high.

 

[Bletchleyite]

By no means bonkers, carefully considered. No way am I proposing heating and cooling at the same time, that WOULD be bonkers, and a vast waste of energy.

Bonkers it may be, but it's pretty much exactly what is done. Cold air in at the top, warm from the radiators, mixing in the middle to give the desired temperature. It's really quite basic and old fashioned.

 

[317666]

I find the 387 aircon to be pretty rubbish, get on a boiling hot train at Cambridge and it finally starts blowing freezing cold air into the coach passing Hatfield - I definitely preferred the ball vents on the 365s!

The best from my experience? 175s, although it's been a good five years since I was last on one.

 

[Parallel]

I am on a GWR 158 atm and the air con seems to be working, though it looks and smells like it has just come back from return. There is still fluff on the carpets!

Every GWR 166 I have been on lately, the air con also seems to be working fine. Even if the air con can be a little bit dodgy, it's far nicer sat on one of these in the declassified First Class section with the hopper windows open, than this time last year on a sardine tin packed 150/1.

I was on a refurbished GWR 158 recently with blue liquid pouring down in one of the vestibules. That looked like a fun problem to fix...

 

[Parallel]

The best from my experience? 175s, although it's been a good five years since I was last on one.

I’ve found 175s to be extremely reliable too. There was only one occasion where it had failed in high summer, and it was absolutely unbearable as there are no hopper windows.

 

[AY1975]

Which is odd, given that on non-aircon stock the rule is very much "thou shalt not open the window".

I've often opened the window on non-aircon stock in mainland Europe without any complaints. That said, I believe that on most railways (and other forms of public transport) on the mainland, it is an unwritten etiquette, or even a byelaw or condition of carriage, that in the event of a dispute it is the passenger who wants the window closed who shall have their way. (Many years ago I remember seeing a sign on a Paris bus to that effect.)

Conversely, a few years ago I travelled on SNCF Corail stock on which the aircon had failed. Corail stock does have windows that the train crew can unlock when that happens, but when the conductor came round to check tickets, I asked her if she could open the windows and she said she was no longer allowed to (maybe because they had problems with people throwing stuff out of the windows?).

 

[Mikey C]

On a 4 car Arriva Trains Wales 158 today, with the windows open in 3 of the cars. With the car with the windows closed, the air con was clearly nor working properly either.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I have been using 360s for over 10 years on and off and never seen an aircon fail at all, come to think of it I've never seen a Siemens unit have a failed aircon system but many a 158.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have been using 360s for over 10 years on and off and never seen an aircon fail at all, come to think of it I've never seen a Siemens unit have a failed aircon system but many a 158.

I've known it happen on the WCML but it's very, very rare. Much of the issue is caused by older systems that aren't designed for modern non-CFC refrigerants, the only real fix is complete replacement.

 

[Tetchytyke]

newly refreshed 754 and 755 along with 762 I think all with some open hoppers.

Doesn't mean the air con wasn't working, it's a big problem with people opening the hoppers. Air con isn't instant (theres a reason my car manufacturer tells me to cool the car with open windows before using the air con) so the windows get opened. They then never get shut again, meaning all the cool air blows away and the air con equipment gets overloaded.

 

[GW43125]

come to think of it I've never seen a Siemens unit have a failed aircon system

Unfortunately, commuting on 450s, I have. Frequently.

 

[Master29]

I don't see the point of installing air con on trains over here. It often fails and I find it far better being on a 150 or 166 with a good number of air hoppers (a breeze also makes a huge difference). Not to forget, the weather is also only this hot for maybe 14 days in a year in this country.

Definitely not true. There are far more warm days than this. With busy trains it can get stuffy on cooler summer days so yes, necessary I think. If anything it`s heating that should be less imo.